AI - Cheating or just evolution?

[guitfnky]

the one thing AI can’t do, at least not in until the physical technology catches up—is play live music. humans will continue to excel at that until robotics catches up to the AI that would drive it. that seems much further off than the music part.

[jam-s]

the one thing AI can’t do, at least not in until the physical technology catches up—is play live music. humans will continue to excel at that until robotics catches up to the AI that would drive it. that seems much further off than the music part.

It's already on its way:

https://learningenglish.voanews.com/a/r ... 81554.html

https://www.design-engineering.com/mort ... 004028796/

Just some random papers on this topic:

* https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... e_exchange
* https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... am_session

Give it another one or two decades and see where technology is then.

[motuscott]

Animatronic mandolin welding bear begs to differ.

[bxbrkrz]

[DaveyG]

We might need to phone Harrison Ford and see if he is still available.

[bxbrkrz]

[do a.i. dream of composing Jazz]

We might need to phone Harrison Ford and see if he is still available.

Blade Runner 2049 was surprisingly good as a follow-up. No wonder Denis was chosen for Dune.
Mr Ford is resting from his injuries during Indy 5. I hope his body double did great.

[bxbrkrz]

[visheshl]

I'd rather prefer to keep AI out of my DAW.

I'm fine with random generators though.
But that's ok i guess because ultimately the choice is with the composer/artist if the randomly generated pattern appeals to him to include it in the composition.
But for me, i like controlled randomisation.
Like i choose the scale, the transition between scales etc. I choose the notes to use in the song.
I then could randomise it and choose one of the randomly generated patterns to use.
Also i decide how to use those patterns.

Also many times you're just goofing around with a piano or a guitar, and suddenly realise, hey that's a nice riff, i could use it for a song.
So that's probably why I'm fine with random generators.


A 'make music' ai button would really take all the joy out of creating music

[BRIGGS]

No, "cheating" is when you print trillions of worthless IOUs, and force people to use it as 'money'.

[Quarmat]

Warning: wall of text!

Let us try to look at the argument from the point of view of AI - or at least, of the level of self-awareness of AI as it stands today (according to the recent hearing in the House of Lords of the British Parliament in which AI-da - an artificial intelligence equipped with mechanical arms, a face and a voice- was called upon to speak: absolutely no self-awareness.

For an AI, a 'painting' or a 'musical composition' is as valuable to us as a pebble by the roadside as we speed along the motorway to work or to our lover's house. Many AIs operate on a GAN (Generative Adversarial Networks) model in which, to put it simply, two algorithms face each other. The first of the two produces an output that the second tries to challenge as not satisfying the demands of the input. After a few iterations (and in the case of AI we are talking about hundreds of thousands, in a few seconds), the output is generally 'approved' by the disputing algorithm and thus passes, let's say, quality control. So if the input "pebble" has a certain output and this output is "approved" we will have the pebble. End of the story, AI-side.

But our roadside pebble can be of enormous significance to someone, let's say an insect that lives nearby and uses it as a reference point and (I'm exaggerating a bit) has a form of emotional attachment to it. Here we are entering philosophical and almost Buddhist terrain: what is a meaningful object? Is there a signifying object regardless of whether the viewer grasps its meaning or not? Are meanings unambiguous?

Obviously this is such a vast terrain with so few clear answers that it is almost pointless to venture into it, but I did so only to bring up two concepts:

1) that AI - still for the moment - is a tool: incredibly powerful, creating an unprecedented gap in the history of human technological evolution, but that it is nothing more than a tool. (still for the time being). If there is no observer, no receiver, AI does not produce anything inherently meaningful, since meaning does not exist for it. A bit like the famous gun on the table: if no one wields it to kill, it is just a piece of iron like any other.

2) will AI make obsolete some jobs that have historically played an important role and that require years and years of study, practice and even a form of 'genius'? yes. In a way not unlike when the steam engine made wind-powered sailing, which had lasted over 3000 years, with all its paraphernalia, its vocabulary, its enormous and detailed package of knowledge, outdated and without a future. Do sailing boats still exist? Yes, but they are no more than a form of pleasure, sport or necessity if you end up shipwrecked on a deserted island.

I am a designer by profession and I confess that I do not feel threatened, but rather excited by the new potential. I have already used AI to produce my daily work, and I have done it as if it were a tool, integrating, modifying, altering its output for the purposes that interested me and to my taste. A human taste, to produce a product whose target audience is humans.

In any case, AI has arrived and will not go away, it is we who have to adapt (as we have done a thousand times in our history as a species) to the new conditions. I believe that on healthy grounds AI will bring enormous benefits and I am also aware that in less democratic places it will cause enormous suffering. But this argument applies to AI as much as to firearms or fizzy drinks.

[bxbrkrz]

No, "cheating" is when you print trillions of worthless IOUs, and force people to use it as 'money'.

[BRIGGS]

orange pill FTW

[jappe]

Embrace change and it'll all be fine.
I've been playing with ChatGPT/OpenAI recently, and I realize it´ll speed up my work as a programmer much like search engines did decades ago.

Here's a random task I asked it to generate code for:

"Make a Java Spring Boot program as follows:
One controller layer with two endpoints called "endpoint1" and "endpoint2".
Endpoint1 shall receive a JSON structure with these attributes: "name1" as string, "address1" as string, "active1" as boolean.
Endpoint2 is the same as endpoint1 but with JSON attributes named "name2", "address2" and "active2"
Add a service layer with two methods that serves each endpoint, and validates that the "name2" attribute has only alphanumeric characters.

Finaly add a spring data layer that stores data to tables with the same name as each endpoint."


And the response:

Code: Select all

import org.springframework.web.bind.annotation.PostMapping;
import org.springframework.web.bind.annotation.RequestBody;
import org.springframework.web.bind.annotation.RestController;

@RestController
public class MyController {
  
  private final MyService myService;
  
  public MyController(MyService myService) {
    this.myService = myService;
  }
  
  @PostMapping("/endpoint1")
  public void endpoint1(@RequestBody MyRequest1 request) {
    myService.processEndpoint1(request);
  }
  
  @PostMapping("/endpoint2")
  public void endpoint2(@RequestBody MyRequest2 request) {
    myService.processEndpoint2(request);
  }
  
}

class MyRequest1 {
  private String name1;
  private String address1;
  private boolean active1;
  
  // Getters and setters
}

class MyRequest2 {
  private String name2;
  private String address2;
  private boolean active2;
  
  // Getters and setters
}

import org.springframework.stereotype.Service;

@Service
public class MyService {
  
  private final MyRepository myRepository;
  
  public MyService(MyRepository myRepository) {
    this.myRepository = myRepository;
  }
  
  public void processEndpoint1(MyRequest1 request) {
    myRepository.save(request);
  }
  
  public void processEndpoint2(MyRequest2 request) {
    if (request.getName2().matches("^[a-zA-Z0-9]*$")) {
      myRepository.save(request);
    }
  }
  
}

import org.springframework.data.jpa.repository.JpaRepository;

public interface MyRepository extends JpaRepository<MyRequest1, Long> {
}

Nice, thanks.

It did give me a disclaimer:

This implementation uses Spring Data JPA to store the request objects in tables with the same name as each endpoint (i.e., endpoint1 and endpoint2). The service layer contains two methods that process the requests and validate the name2 attribute.

Note that this code is just an example and is not intended to be run as-is. It may require additional modifications to work properly in a real-world application.

[Yonatan]

Is there anything AI you would like to see when it comes to Reason? A combinator AI maker?

[Yonatan]

Yes it is surely AI used as a tool that is very much going to be a creators dream machine. The ability to feed it with lot of data or with tedious tasks that it probably could learn to automate and thus leaving more and more room for a producer or whatever, to focus on the creative choices and experimantarions, rather than setting up things manually. For me, AI is as its basic level, a time saver, and at more advanced stages, a knowledgablencoworker that can make one go into directions one did not think of.

[aeox]

https://youtube.com/shorts/FeHzQizPDNg?feature=share

These deep fakes are getting weird too. If it wasn't such a ridiculous video I probably wouldn't of thought about it twice.

[bxbrkrz]

[aeox]

integer gets it. it's not about where AI is now--it's about where it's going. kinda funny how so many creatives seem to have such a lack of imagination on this topic. just recognize how far things have come already, understand that people will continue to develop and improve on these technologies--and you will recognize that given sufficient time, AI will create art that's indiscernible to humans. hell, it already is, in the visual arts world. if you think AI isn't going to be able to do the same with music, you're mad. it's coming for the 'programmed to a grid' electronic crowd first, but it won't be too long before it's creating believable rock tracks and orchestral scores (and mixing+mastering it all).

on one hand it's kind of a sad thought, but at the end of the day, it doesn't diminish what any artist does--the worth, quality, and enjoyment of our own output isn't impacted whatsoever by AI--just as it's not when another new human artist starts putting out music. the only thing that it means is there will be a flood of new 'artists' out there. if you're worried about competition, I guess that's a valid concern.

but from another perspective, it's going to be kinda beautiful. at some point, AI will be capable of delivering music and art every bit as emotionally impactful as anything we love today. for the skeptics, there will likely come a time when they hear something, have a human visceral reaction to it, and later come to learn it was created by an algorithm.

bottom line is it doesn't much matter--there's going to be more great music out there, and that's great for listeners. in many cases we don't know how the music we listen to now was created. the proverbial sausage was made out of our view, and all we really care about is whether we like it or not. likewise, in time we'll realize that the manner in which it was created doesn't mean a goddamn thing. our judgment and biases of the method of creation will eventually give way to what's really important--our judgment of the music itself.

A little playlist i put together with AI generated stuff

https://on.soundcloud.com/wWPJ1

[bxbrkrz]

integer gets it. it's not about where AI is now--it's about where it's going. kinda funny how so many creatives seem to have such a lack of imagination on this topic. just recognize how far things have come already, understand that people will continue to develop and improve on these technologies--and you will recognize that given sufficient time, AI will create art that's indiscernible to humans. hell, it already is, in the visual arts world. if you think AI isn't going to be able to do the same with music, you're mad. it's coming for the 'programmed to a grid' electronic crowd first, but it won't be too long before it's creating believable rock tracks and orchestral scores (and mixing+mastering it all).

on one hand it's kind of a sad thought, but at the end of the day, it doesn't diminish what any artist does--the worth, quality, and enjoyment of our own output isn't impacted whatsoever by AI--just as it's not when another new human artist starts putting out music. the only thing that it means is there will be a flood of new 'artists' out there. if you're worried about competition, I guess that's a valid concern.

but from another perspective, it's going to be kinda beautiful. at some point, AI will be capable of delivering music and art every bit as emotionally impactful as anything we love today. for the skeptics, there will likely come a time when they hear something, have a human visceral reaction to it, and later come to learn it was created by an algorithm.

bottom line is it doesn't much matter--there's going to be more great music out there, and that's great for listeners. in many cases we don't know how the music we listen to now was created. the proverbial sausage was made out of our view, and all we really care about is whether we like it or not. likewise, in time we'll realize that the manner in which it was created doesn't mean a goddamn thing. our judgment and biases of the method of creation will eventually give way to what's really important--our judgment of the music itself.

A little playlist i put together with AI generated stuff

https://on.soundcloud.com/wWPJ1

streetcred.AI

[Jac459]

I'm pretty sure AI is coming for all of our jobs — and sooner than most expect.

The history of men is about gain of productivity.

That's what we have been doing all along, inventing tools, then machine, then computers, then AI...

All people working in Banks in back office departments will be replaced by robots in about 10 years. It has already started in many places.
It started with blue collars, it is now white collars... I am personally expecting with great joy the end of traders replaced by automatic trading machines...

It is an ineluctable fact.

It is up to us to make it something great, use well the great richness created by this productivity... Of course it can also turn into a nightmare...

Mankind....

[Jac459]

My vote of course is evolution !

[Noise]

Have you guys checked out Riffusion ?

https://www.riffusion.com/

"Riffusion generates music from text prompts. Try your favorite artists, instruments like saxophone or violin, modifiers like arabic or jamaican, genres like jazz or gospel, sounds like church bells or rain, or any combination. Play with the settings below to explore the latent space of sound."

This is it.

[aeox]

Have you guys checked out Riffusion ?

https://www.riffusion.com/

"Riffusion generates music from text prompts. Try your favorite artists, instruments like saxophone or violin, modifiers like arabic or jamaican, genres like jazz or gospel, sounds like church bells or rain, or any combination. Play with the settings below to explore the latent space of sound."

This is it.

Yes that's what I used for that playlist You can download it and run it locally on your pc too

[bxbrkrz]

[platzangst]

It's a question of perspective, really. You can go online and buy some construction kits and loops and put together a passable track without ever having to play a single note. Is that cheating? I'd say it isn't particularly creative on the part of the producer, but I'm also sure that it goes on all the time. I'm also sure many a musician scoffed at the idea of sequencers as they first arrived on the scene. "Nobody wants to listen to computers controlling synths, it's all artificial!"

What it will eventually come down to is: is it good? Does it make something people like to listen to? If it does, it will be used, ethical or not.