Rockwool or Fiberglass? (Insulation & Sound absorbtion)
I'm considering treating about 50% (2 walls and the ceiling) of my planned vocal recording / studio room.
Both insulation and sound absorbtion are important.
Some furniture would further help further with the sound, and a gobo/sound shield would help making the recording drier.
The treated wall would be behind me, and the gobo in front of me. Unless I should just perform towards the treated walls, and not use a gobo at all?
But the main question would be, whether rockwool would be a must, or does the bit cheaper fiberglass do the trick for sound? Probably the 150 mm thickness is better.
Also, which is better for insulation?
Both insulation and sound absorbtion are important.
Some furniture would further help further with the sound, and a gobo/sound shield would help making the recording drier.
The treated wall would be behind me, and the gobo in front of me. Unless I should just perform towards the treated walls, and not use a gobo at all?
But the main question would be, whether rockwool would be a must, or does the bit cheaper fiberglass do the trick for sound? Probably the 150 mm thickness is better.
Also, which is better for insulation?
In terms of insulation rock wool and fiberglass will do pretty much the same job of keeping you warm. Both will also give you a rash and make you cough. Take it from one who knows. Just use old egg boxes and quilts like the rest of us.RobC wrote: ↑17 Nov 2022I'm considering treating about 50% (2 walls and the ceiling) of my planned vocal recording / studio room.
Both insulation and sound absorbtion are important.
Some furniture would further help further with the sound, and a gobo/sound shield would help making the recording drier.
The treated wall would be behind me, and the gobo in front of me. Unless I should just perform towards the treated walls, and not use a gobo at all?
But the main question would be, whether rockwool would be a must, or does the bit cheaper fiberglass do the trick for sound? Probably the 150 mm thickness is better.
Also, which is better for insulation?
🗲 2ॐ ᛉ
Gee, thanks for the info! I guess I better avoid them. At least definitely not the way they are without some coating. I heard of the irritation they can do.MrFigg wrote: ↑17 Nov 2022In terms of insulation rock wool and fiberglass will do pretty much the same job of keeping you warm. Both will also give you a rash and make you cough. Take it from one who knows. Just use old egg boxes and quilts like the rest of us.RobC wrote: ↑17 Nov 2022I'm considering treating about 50% (2 walls and the ceiling) of my planned vocal recording / studio room.
Both insulation and sound absorbtion are important.
Some furniture would further help further with the sound, and a gobo/sound shield would help making the recording drier.
The treated wall would be behind me, and the gobo in front of me. Unless I should just perform towards the treated walls, and not use a gobo at all?
But the main question would be, whether rockwool would be a must, or does the bit cheaper fiberglass do the trick for sound? Probably the 150 mm thickness is better.
Also, which is better for insulation?
I guess I'll have to stick to using a hanging cloud above me, maybe some sound proofing/absorbing fake wall behind me, and a gobo in front. Luckily, they are still available (for now).
Current egg prices are crazy. And they say they don't work.
- Jackjackdaw
- Posts: 1400
- Joined: 12 Jan 2019
I’ve built a couple of sound isolation rooms. Stud walls stuffed with rock wool does a great job. Make sure you get a good seal on the door, makes a big difference.
Just think of all the omelettes you can make trying.RobC wrote: ↑17 Nov 2022Gee, thanks for the info! I guess I better avoid them. At least definitely not the way they are without some coating. I heard of the irritation they can do.
I guess I'll have to stick to using a hanging cloud above me, maybe some sound proofing/absorbing fake wall behind me, and a gobo in front. Luckily, they are still available (for now).
Current egg prices are crazy. And they say they don't work.
Is it just for vocals or what? Get one of those big spongy filter contraptions that clamp to your mic stand. Or get a really directional mic.
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Last edited by MrFigg on 17 Nov 2022, edited 1 time in total.
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rockwool is a little denser and thus more absobent and less itchy in comparison to fiberglass. Still you want to have both covered with some thick cotton cloth or absorber foam so the little particles don't rain down on you. Also there are special varieties of both for acoustic insulation. Those are a bit more expensive, but only by a little.
Last edited by jam-s on 18 Nov 2022, edited 1 time in total.
I'd suggest a free consultation with GIK, then a trip to their DIY shop:
https://www.gikacoustics.com/product-ca ... 4dEALw_wcB
https://www.gikacoustics.com/product-ca ... 4dEALw_wcB
Selig Audio, LLC
This stuff costs more but not itchy. Plus you can stuff it tightly, which helps with the acoustic though not with the thermal properties.
https://inhabitat.com/recycled-blue-jea ... ded-logic/
https://inhabitat.com/recycled-blue-jea ... ded-logic/
Who’s using the royal plural now baby? 🧂
- Jackjackdaw
- Posts: 1400
- Joined: 12 Jan 2019
Just to note, Rock wool isn’t as itchy as old fibreglass insulation. If you handle it with gloves and long sleeves and a dust mask it isn’t unpleasant to work with. But it is meant to go inside walls not just draped around. It’s a construction material.
Well they don't. They might do some diffusion, but they most certainly don't do absorption, wich is what you need at lower frequencies. And even diffusion only works to some degree.
Also, Rockwool is not as itchy and will only give youb a rash if you leave them open air wich you don't at any kind of application. So, if you use it with heavy dense stashes (70 kg/m3 or denser), and use back and front burlap so that it doesn't get in contact with your studio air, you just have to be carefull managing it while constructing your bass traps. FiberGlass is a known health hazard, so i'd stick away from it, though i've read good things about it's absorving capabilities even against rockwool. but... Better be safe than sorry.
I’ve heard there are limited supplies these days, your link is from 2006!motuscott wrote: ↑17 Nov 2022This stuff costs more but not itchy. Plus you can stuff it tightly, which helps with the acoustic though not with the thermal properties.
https://inhabitat.com/recycled-blue-jea ... ded-logic/
Good to read up on the pros/cons online on places like this:
https://www.builddirect.com/blog/denim- ... d-the-bad/
https://www.thespruce.com/denim-insulat ... ns-5116610
https://enviromom.com/recycled-denim-insulation/
If you’re REALLY interested in the subject of acoustics, join this excellent Reddit: r/Acoustics.
Selig Audio, LLC
Thank you all very much for the responses!
@Jackjackdaw Basically, this room is so quiet, I can hear my ears ring, nothing else. It's rather the room echoes and reverb that is annoying.
And thanks for the info on rockwool! Looks like I can't just glue it on the wall as I thought. x D
@MrFigg Omlettes? I rather beat the meat and bread it. : ) Eggs are becoming precious here. (I'm talking about food!)
Yes, I still just want to record vocals. Maybe showing off my LinnDrum "beatboxing" imitation - which can get pretty bassy; although if it needs more serious treatment, I can still go with just lighter treatment for vocals. However, for what it is, I'd like to record professional material.
And yep, that's what I meant by sound shield/gobo. Do they also help with keeping the sound inside? : ) So if I scream towards the door with the gobo in front of me, it will also be a bit less audible, right?
@jam-s I was hoping to find something that keeps the room warmer, makes it sound dry, and won't choke me, all in one. But coating can increase the price quite a bit. I gotta figure out something fairly quickly...
@selig The main issue is that my country has limited possibilities. So basically, construction stores, like OBI, is what I have to rely on.
I read on that Gearsl*ts website, that a treated corner is the spot to perform. Then the hanging cloud above, and maybe a gobo. My idea would be to perform in the opposite direction, using a gobo.
Maybe I should draw my idea sometime.
Reddit could be worth checking out ~ I just hoped there's some simple solution to discuss here first.
Yes, I do want a clean and efficient recording, but chances are, this will be temporary.
@DaveyG I was thinking of using those pyramid shaped diffuser/absorber sponges on the wall behind me; unless it's overkill. I can get a bit loud though, now and then. : )
@motuscott Ah, we don't have such in this country either. x D
@mcatalao Hmm, if I understand correctly the male voice gets pretty deep, so I need both diffusion and perhaps some absorbtion.
But on second thought, can even a loud and deep rap create so much bass that it would need a bass trap?
@Jackjackdaw Basically, this room is so quiet, I can hear my ears ring, nothing else. It's rather the room echoes and reverb that is annoying.
And thanks for the info on rockwool! Looks like I can't just glue it on the wall as I thought. x D
@MrFigg Omlettes? I rather beat the meat and bread it. : ) Eggs are becoming precious here. (I'm talking about food!)
Yes, I still just want to record vocals. Maybe showing off my LinnDrum "beatboxing" imitation - which can get pretty bassy; although if it needs more serious treatment, I can still go with just lighter treatment for vocals. However, for what it is, I'd like to record professional material.
And yep, that's what I meant by sound shield/gobo. Do they also help with keeping the sound inside? : ) So if I scream towards the door with the gobo in front of me, it will also be a bit less audible, right?
@jam-s I was hoping to find something that keeps the room warmer, makes it sound dry, and won't choke me, all in one. But coating can increase the price quite a bit. I gotta figure out something fairly quickly...
@selig The main issue is that my country has limited possibilities. So basically, construction stores, like OBI, is what I have to rely on.
I read on that Gearsl*ts website, that a treated corner is the spot to perform. Then the hanging cloud above, and maybe a gobo. My idea would be to perform in the opposite direction, using a gobo.
Maybe I should draw my idea sometime.
Reddit could be worth checking out ~ I just hoped there's some simple solution to discuss here first.
Yes, I do want a clean and efficient recording, but chances are, this will be temporary.
@DaveyG I was thinking of using those pyramid shaped diffuser/absorber sponges on the wall behind me; unless it's overkill. I can get a bit loud though, now and then. : )
@motuscott Ah, we don't have such in this country either. x D
@mcatalao Hmm, if I understand correctly the male voice gets pretty deep, so I need both diffusion and perhaps some absorbtion.
But on second thought, can even a loud and deep rap create so much bass that it would need a bass trap?
Would this do the trick for starters? I know nothing about shields, other than the basics, like what they do.MrFigg wrote: ↑17 Nov 2022Just think of all the omelettes you can make trying.RobC wrote: ↑17 Nov 2022
Gee, thanks for the info! I guess I better avoid them. At least definitely not the way they are without some coating. I heard of the irritation they can do.
I guess I'll have to stick to using a hanging cloud above me, maybe some sound proofing/absorbing fake wall behind me, and a gobo in front. Luckily, they are still available (for now).
Current egg prices are crazy. And they say they don't work.
Is it just for vocals or what? Get one of those big spongy filter contraptions that clamp to your mic stand. Or get a really directional mic.
https://www.hangszerdiszkont.hu/lewitz- ... rofonokhoz
Rob, the most valuable advice I received with starting down this path was to create/purchase a few panels and start trying them in different positions. In other words, don’t decide where they all should be - YET. Yes, there are some positions that always work, like the first reflection points to the left, right, and above the listening position (for mixing). I started there but also got a few free standing panels I use all the time in different positions - currently they are positioned around the drum kit for a dry “70s” sound. Having some flexibility (you don’t always want a dead OR live sound) is super helpful, and allows you to do comparison tests (essential to finding the sweet spots).
Selig Audio, LLC
Yeah. That’s the type of thing.RobC wrote: ↑19 Nov 2022Would this do the trick for starters? I know nothing about shields, other than the basics, like what they do.
https://www.hangszerdiszkont.hu/lewitz- ... rofonokhoz
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I remember, similarly, that moving a subwoofer (instead of EQing and alike) can make all the difference. Although this room will be quite stuffed. Mostly with all kinds of foams - the "DIY" kind (cause it looks like I will move far away from here after all).selig wrote: ↑19 Nov 2022Rob, the most valuable advice I received with starting down this path was to create/purchase a few panels and start trying them in different positions. In other words, don’t decide where they all should be - YET. Yes, there are some positions that always work, like the first reflection points to the left, right, and above the listening position (for mixing). I started there but also got a few free standing panels I use all the time in different positions - currently they are positioned around the drum kit for a dry “70s” sound. Having some flexibility (you don’t always want a dead OR live sound) is super helpful, and allows you to do comparison tests (essential to finding the sweet spots).
But yeah, I'll try that then and move around whatever I can and see what works best.
I'll probably try making a sound shield myself ~ I'm currently still in the country, and when webshopping, they always try sending to this address, something that has a damaged packaging, or looks opened, etc. I've sent stuff back 3 times now...
Isn't there software that can figure that out?selig wrote: ↑19 Nov 2022Rob, the most valuable advice I received with starting down this path was to create/purchase a few panels and start trying them in different positions. In other words, don’t decide where they all should be - YET. Yes, there are some positions that always work, like the first reflection points to the left, right, and above the listening position (for mixing). I started there but also got a few free standing panels I use all the time in different positions - currently they are positioned around the drum kit for a dry “70s” sound. Having some flexibility (you don’t always want a dead OR live sound) is super helpful, and allows you to do comparison tests (essential to finding the sweet spots).
IK Multimedia's Arc calculates an impulse response for the room ... and I've seen builders using a laser room scanner to get exact measurements of a room.
Maybe it's a bit like Autotune in the early 90s where only a few were privy to the tools, but it's got to exist. It's just got to.
- crimsonwarlock
- Posts: 2329
- Joined: 06 Nov 2021
- Location: Close to the Edge
I used this one to calculate my studio space: https://amcoustics.com/tools/amroc
Some more from my bookmarks:
- http://www.roomeqwizard.com
- https://www.troldtekt.com/web-tools-dow ... alculator/
-------
Analog tape ⇒ ESQ1 sequencer board ⇒ Atari/Steinberg Pro24 ⇒ Atari/Cubase ⇒ Cakewalk Sonar ⇒ Orion Pro/Platinum ⇒ Reaper ⇒ Reason DAW.
Analog tape ⇒ ESQ1 sequencer board ⇒ Atari/Steinberg Pro24 ⇒ Atari/Cubase ⇒ Cakewalk Sonar ⇒ Orion Pro/Platinum ⇒ Reaper ⇒ Reason DAW.
In just about every major studio I've worked in there are the initial installations and then there are the "adjustments", with a few exceptions.avasopht wrote: ↑11 Dec 2022Isn't there software that can figure that out?selig wrote: ↑19 Nov 2022Rob, the most valuable advice I received with starting down this path was to create/purchase a few panels and start trying them in different positions. In other words, don’t decide where they all should be - YET. Yes, there are some positions that always work, like the first reflection points to the left, right, and above the listening position (for mixing). I started there but also got a few free standing panels I use all the time in different positions - currently they are positioned around the drum kit for a dry “70s” sound. Having some flexibility (you don’t always want a dead OR live sound) is super helpful, and allows you to do comparison tests (essential to finding the sweet spots).
IK Multimedia's Arc calculates an impulse response for the room ... and I've seen builders using a laser room scanner to get exact measurements of a room.
Maybe it's a bit like Autotune in the early 90s where only a few were privy to the tools, but it's got to exist. It's just got to.
And there was no AutoTune in the early 90s, we used H3000s initially which like studios in general were not available to "everyone".
And like AutoTune, you ideally use it to fix things you hear, not to tell you how you should tune a vocal. And in that sense there are tools to help you find the issues you hear in a room, and make suggestions as to where to start.
But once you get into the physical reality of things you inevitably have to make adjustments to get what YOU are looking for instead of what the machine tells you to do. Thats the difference between the science bits and the arts parts!
Selig Audio, LLC
Some generic (but thick) foam that thankfully never was thrown away ~ put in the windows, made the sound a good bit drier already. And pretty much no sound leaks in from outdoors now. No light either, lol, but making music in daylight always was uninspiring for me.
Hopefully I can continue "treating" this room tomorrow. : )
Hopefully I can continue "treating" this room tomorrow. : )
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