[STOCK/FREE] Bricasti M7 Full Stereo Reverb - UPDATE 1

[crimsonwarlock]

I finally moved the Samplicity Bricasti M7 impulses into my Reason setup. After saving all the mono->stereo impulses as RV7000 patches, I wanted a full stereo version for the separate left and right impulses in the Bricasti set, resulting in this combinator.

It has separate levels for dry and reverb signals, and the reverb (being real stereo) can be panned. Both dry and reverb signals can be muted. In addition, it has separate hi-pass and low-pass filters with Q-control. I also brought all the gate-parameters to the front panel because... why not

bricasti-screenshot.png (315.79 KiB) Viewed 6260 times

EDIT UPDATE 1: This is now a real/full stereo reverb, using the quad-channel impulse setup. Besides the 'normal' stereo reverb signals, it also includes the cross-bleed signals. There is now an additional fader that sets the bleed-level for optimal control of the reverb image. This implements the following behavior:

A “True Stereo” impulse response has four channels consisting of the direct channel responses (L->L and R->R) and the cross-channel responses (L->R and R->L). Input sounds panned to one side will produce reverb output in both channels. This exactly models how stereo reverbs units work, even when sounds are panned to one side, the reverb outputs spacious sounding reverb in both output channels.

The combinator has two separate RV7000 instances for left and right. There are two Spiders and a microMix to handle routing, levels and mutes. It also uses four instances of KiloHearts Filter, which is available for free from the shop (in case you didn't grab it already). If so, you can get it here: https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... hs-filter/

screenshot-combinator.png (937.13 KiB) Viewed 6260 times

As this uses the convolution mode of the RV7000, the size knob and predelay knob are inactive in their center positions. The size knob shortens or stretches the impulse, making the reverb tail shorter or longer. The predelay knob moves the start of the delay left or right in time.

You need the Bricasti M7 impulses. For obvious reasons, I cannot distribute those with the combinator. Besides that, the download is rather large. You can download the Bricasti impulses from Samplicity, they are free too (grab them before they are gone): https://samplicity.com/bricasti-m7-impu ... nse-files/

The combinator has an impulse from the FSB by default and can be used that way. You can, of course, use this combinator with other impulse files as well. However, the Bricasti impulses are of incredible quality.

Happy reverberating

[selig]

If I’m not mistaken you do not need to use two RV7000s for true stereo with the convolution algorithm, assuming a stereo impulse response. OTOH, if you need different settings for the left vs right (for exaggerated binaural effects) this is the way to go, or if you don’t have stereo impulses and are trying to create a stereo effect.

[crimsonwarlock]

If I’m not mistaken you do not need to use two RV7000s for true stereo with the convolution algorithm, assuming a stereo impulse response. OTOH, if you need different settings for the left vs right (for exaggerated binaural effects) this is the way to go, or if you don’t have stereo impulses and are trying to create a stereo effect.

The Bricasti impulse set comes with three impulses: one for mono-into-stereo, and two separate ones for left and right. As far as I know, RV7000 cannot load separate impulses for left and right, so that is why I used two instances. Besides that, this setup let you pan the reverb when used as an insert, something the RV7000 also doesn't do afaik.

[crimsonwarlock]

I found a bit more information from the maker of the impulses. For real stereo, you need the separate left and right impulses. So, the setup with two RV7000 is correct in this case.

But wait, there's more The left and right impulses are both stereo as well, together forming a quad impulse set. I'm not seeing any use for this in Reason right away, but of course, I could wire this up in the combinator if it would be beneficial. The setup with two RV7000 instances makes this possible anyway. Will look into this later, so maybe there will be a version 2 of this combinator someday.

[Danilo Villanova]

NICE! Downloading right now. Will Reason ask for the IRs location when opening the combinator?

[crimsonwarlock]

NICE! Downloading right now.

Thanks.

Will Reason ask for the IRs location when opening the combinator?

When you open the combinator, you'll see the image that I posted. Both RV7000 are open on the impulse load screen. You can use the folder button on those screens to browse to the location where you have the impulses stored (after you download and extract them). You can also open a file window of your OS, browse to the location and drag-drop the correct/wanted impulses on the RV7000 windows.

About those impulses: there are several different quality impulses in the Samplicity download. For the highest quality, you can load the 48Khz/32bit versions. I haven't tried yet, but probably using smaller impulses might lower CPU-load, if that is what you need (no promises though, as I said I didn't try this yet).

[crimsonwarlock]

Another tip: when using this combinator as a send-FX (from the mixer), hit the mute-button for the dry-signal, and set the reverb level to a good return level for the mixer.

[Trefor]

Thanks for putting this together. I downloaded the Bricasti Impulses ages ago and have been just dragging and dropping them into the RV7000 up until now. Pretty sure that this Combi will make them so much more useful.

[crimsonwarlock]

OK, so I found this bit of information:

A “True Stereo” impulse response has four channels consisting of the direct channel responses (L->L and R->R) and the cross-channel responses (L->R and R->L). Input sounds panned to one side will produce reverb output in both channels. This exactly models how stereo reverbs units work, even when sounds are panned to one side, the reverb outputs spacious sounding reverb in both output channels.

As the Bricasti impulses are in fact quad (two stereo impulses) that contain this information, I'm going to see if I can implement this. I already have an idea where to go with this.

[crimsonwarlock]

OK, I already updated it, and the result is now even more stunning (with the Bricasti left and right impulses). When panning a source signal into the reverb, the resulting reverb stereo image is much more natural than when you try this with just one RV7000 and the single mono-to-stereo impulse from the Bricasti set, or any RV7000 impulse from the FSB. This combinator made me learn something about stereo reverbs

Updated download, screenshots, and some additional info is in the first post. If you downloaded it before the update, I suggest you grab the new version asap

[moneykube]

cool.... thank you

[selig]

If I’m not mistaken you do not need to use two RV7000s for true stereo with the convolution algorithm, assuming a stereo impulse response. OTOH, if you need different settings for the left vs right (for exaggerated binaural effects) this is the way to go, or if you don’t have stereo impulses and are trying to create a stereo effect.

The Bricasti impulse set comes with three impulses: one for mono-into-stereo, and two separate ones for left and right. As far as I know, RV7000 cannot load separate impulses for left and right, so that is why I used two instances. Besides that, this setup let you pan the reverb when used as an insert, something the RV7000 also doesn't do afaik.

If you run the mono/stereo impulse in Parallel mode it works exactly how I like it to work. You appear to be running the convolutions in mono mode - is this intentional?
I also noticed the EQ cranked on your Combinator, sounds better flat to me FWIW at least as a starting point.

[crimsonwarlock]

If you run the mono/stereo impulse in Parallel mode it works exactly how I like it to work. You appear to be running the convolutions in mono mode - is this intentional?

Not intentional. I have to check some stuff, as this is probably because I released the combi with an impulse from the FSB (same loaded in both instances) because I can't distribute the Bricasti impulses.

I also noticed the EQ cranked on your Combinator, sounds better flat to me FWIW at least as a starting point.

That might also be an oversight on my side. Will look into it.

I've made presets with the combi for all Bricasti impulses, and it seems the combi presets don't include the impulses, but instead reference them. I'm going to test if Reason can find the impulses if they are in another directory. If so, I can release the full preset set that will load the correct impulse for each preset. It seems that Reason can find stuff when it is in a folder that is referenced in the favorites pane of the browser.

Thanks for checking it out and being my beta-tester

[crimsonwarlock]

You appear to be running the convolutions in mono mode - is this intentional?

Checked it and indeed I didn't set this correct on the init patch. All my Bricasti presets are set to parallel. Still have to see if I can release the Bricasti presets (without the impulses of course), if not then I'll upload a corrected init-patch.

I also noticed the EQ cranked on your Combinator, sounds better flat to me FWIW at least as a starting point.

Not sure where you see this. The EQ is switched off on both RV7000 instances. The KiloHearts filters (that I use as replacement for the RV7 EQs) are switched to bypass by default and also set to basically not filtering by default. Where do you see a cranked EQ in the combinator?

[crimsonwarlock]

I also noticed the EQ cranked on your Combinator

Aaaah... found it, and totally overlooked the fact that the EQ enable switch DOES NOT include Hi EQ setting (which is stupid in my opinion).

Well, another thing to update, I will have to resave all the presets I made for this as well, so there's that

[selig]

Getting back to my first post in this thread, running one RV7000 with the Mono/Stereo IR in PARALLEL mode (IMPORTANT) sounds fantastic and pans just the way I like.
Advantages to the dual stereo are a better representation of how the original unit works, but I don’t actually find the ‘stereoness’ of that approach to be very strong - it mostly affects the early reflections with the long tail being the same no matter where you pan the source. So it’s subtle, but it’s likely more how the originals work (though it’s one digital reverb I’ve not yet used in person).

Bottom line - in cases where you want the reverb to follow the source, or to pan opposite the source, you only need a single RV7000 and one IR (as long as you run in parallel mode). And it sounds freaking awesome!

[side note - during my testing I actually got the single RV7000 to null with your combinator, but could not reproduce it later - more testing is needed but to my ear they sound the same unless you use extreme panning on the source.]

[crimsonwarlock]

Bottom line - in cases where you want the reverb to follow the source, or to pan opposite the source, you only need a single RV7000 and one IR (as long as you run in parallel mode). And it sounds freaking awesome!

I totally agree that it sounds awesome that way already. I made the combinator to see how close I could get to what the real thing does, and we have those wonderful combi-2 features to play with

[side note - during my testing I actually got the single RV7000 to null with your combinator, but could not reproduce it later - more testing is needed but to my ear they sound the same unless you use extreme panning on the source.]

The quad channels are of course very subtle, especially if you keep their levels low. I'm just going from the info of the guy who made the impulses, stating that the quad setup has more reverb information. Which seems obvious. However, if stuff nulls, well.... then it nulls. The setup in the combinator still has a little bit more control than a single RV7K, and I want to get as close as possible to what a real M7 does, as that thing sounds absolutely magical.

[selig]

Bottom line - in cases where you want the reverb to follow the source, or to pan opposite the source, you only need a single RV7000 and one IR (as long as you run in parallel mode). And it sounds freaking awesome!

I totally agree that it sounds awesome that way already. I made the combinator to see how close I could get to what the real thing does, and we have those wonderful combi-2 features to play with

[side note - during my testing I actually got the single RV7000 to null with your combinator, but could not reproduce it later - more testing is needed but to my ear they sound the same unless you use extreme panning on the source.]

The quad channels are of course very subtle, especially if you keep their levels low. I'm just going from the info of the guy who made the impulses, stating that the quad setup has more reverb information. Which seems obvious. However, if stuff nulls, well.... then it nulls. The setup in the combinator still has a little bit more control than a single RV7K, and I want to get as close as possible to what a real M7 does, as that thing sounds absolutely magical.

As I’ve had those impulses in the excellent LiquidSonics Reverberate for years, I guess I got over the initial ‘wow’ and now hardly ever reach for them. I guess it depends on the work I’m doing - if I’m mixing rock/pop I don’t use complex reverbs, and if I’m doing ambient I need full algorithmic reverbs with their complex/random modulation (my first hardware reverb on all my early work was my two PCM-70s, which still have such a great wobbly/evolving tail I STILL love to this day).
Convolutions, OTOH, still play a big role in realistic orchestral sounds, or recreating existing spaces (love the Capitol Chambers from UAD). But sampling a hardware reverb is like sampling an analog synth - it’s close but it misses the natural variations that occur on the hardware (or the software for that matter).

[crimsonwarlock]

As I’ve had those impulses in the excellent LiquidSonics Reverberate for years, I guess I got over the initial ‘wow’ and now hardly ever reach for them. I guess it depends on the work I’m doing - if I’m mixing rock/pop I don’t use complex reverbs, and if I’m doing ambient I need full algorithmic reverbs with their complex/random modulation (my first hardware reverb on all my early work was my two PCM-70s, which still have such a great wobbly/evolving tail I STILL love to this day).
Convolutions, OTOH, still play a big role in realistic orchestral sounds, or recreating existing spaces (love the Capitol Chambers from UAD). But sampling a hardware reverb is like sampling an analog synth - it’s close but it misses the natural variations that occur on the hardware (or the software for that matter).

It's funny how the M7 is regarded as one of the most realistic sounding hardware reverbs, while it being an algorithmic reverb itself. I do have other algorithmic reverbs that I like (and made combinators for), but having this available to me now as a nice combinator is a very welcome addition to my rack. I'm building new separate templates for tracking, mixing and mastering, and combinator this will be on the default sends in my mixing template, in place of the RV7000 sends that are in the default Reason setup.

Thanks again for your feedback, it has helped me a lot in ironing out some wrinkles

[boomer]

Just checking … But aren’t you automatically running the RV7000 in parallel mode any time you have assigned a wet/dry mix?

[selig]

Just checking … But aren’t you automatically running the RV7000 in parallel mode any time you have assigned a wet/dry mix?

There are different uses of the term. What you're describing is also called send/return, but generically is 'parallel' with regards to the two paths. However, there is a setting called "Parallel" under Mode in the Convolution section of the RV7000 that is the same thing as 'true stereo', where the input passes to the output on two 'parallel' channels but does not otherwise mix/combine (or cross paths).

[Neo]

Cheers crimsonwarlock.
https://awave.com.au/shop/outboard/effe ... eo-reverb/

[crimsonwarlock]

Cheers crimsonwarlock.
https://awave.com.au/shop/outboard/effe ... eo-reverb/

[Pingafuego]

Hi crimsonwarlock, thanks for your combinator and work!

I am trying the Bricasti comb, but cannot load the quad WAV files into RV 7000 - I get an "format not supported" error.

What is the correct way to load the impulses into de combinator?

Thanks!!

[crimsonwarlock]

I am trying the Bricasti comb, but cannot load the quad WAV files into RV 7000 - I get an "format not supported" error.

What is the correct way to load the impulses into de combinator?

The RV7000 can not load quad impulses, hence the error. I specifically made this combinator to deal withh that issue, and the Bricasti impulses come with separate left and right impulses to help solve this. Those are both stereo impulses, and together they give us the quad setup while using two instances of RV7000 in the configuration that is in my combinator.

So simply load the left impulse in the first RV7000 and the right impulse in the second