Reason 12.2.9 Release Notes

[Billy+]

100% agree with everything said.. I've used Reason standalone since the first version and R12 is the only version I haven't purchased, if RRP wasn't a thing or midi support was added I probably wouldn't have purchased Live

I guess what I disagree with is that the features are missing. Live has features that reason does not. And the other way too. That does not mean that either is missing features. They are different products. You can't say you are happy with the way you have to collect files to save a project in live. It's not hard but it sucks. No? But it is not reason.

Mostly I feel many people online have been overly critical of something I really love as is. More would be nice, but Reason has already made me happy. Even if I can't fold tracks into a folder. But I have never seen an SSL console fold up either.

I am likely being overly sensitive, but Reason is like my big brother. Sure he a kinda a dork. But I love that dork.

I take your points but I still say not implementing vst midi is a missing feature and while it doesn't make a huge difference it is the only reason I have moved on, I'm not one of those people who wants to see Reason standalone start copying other features from other daws but I do want essential features that are standard in every other product on the market.

I would have paid for R12 if the only feature was vst midi support but as things stand it's going to take a lot more to convince me to buy the next upgrade and R12 is definitely going to be one that I skip.

[Mataya]

Same here. Works great. Use it for what it can do. It was always like a VCV for me. Actually, I look at VCV tutorials and then instead of staying in VCV I go into Reason to see if I can do the same or similar...and most of the time I can and soooo much more. It's a real life rack simulation from day one. It was never a Cubase or Logic. It was Reason and I made 80% of my music in it, although I own Nuendo for my day job, Pro Tools, I never made a single track with those and I know them inside out, because my day job is audio post, dialog editing and shit like that. I would love to see all kind of different features, but even without those, it's my favorite music making software. I don't record bands, trumpets, guitars, edit live drums or write notes...I just twist and turn samples, synths and effects and make techno with it and for that, Reason was made. If I wanted to record a band, I'd use something else. Love Reason.

Mataya

[crimsonwarlock]

But I have never seen an SSL console fold up either.

Although you stated that jokingly (obviously), it is more to the point than you might think. I used Reaper for over a decade and NEVER used the collapse-folder feature it had all that time. Why? Because I have a Tascam US-2400 control surface, with 24 motorized faders, which worked flawlessly in Reaper. However, folding tracks didn't "fold" the controller mapping, so any relation between the folder tracks on screen and faders on the Tascam got lost when folding folders. As you said, you can't fold up a control surface, either.

[xylyx]

I guess what I disagree with is that the features are missing. Live has features that reason does not. And the other way too. That does not mean that either is missing features.

Well, I am struggling to think of any other current DAW that has VST hosting that does not support midi VSTs, except Reason. The announcement that they were implementing VST3 support would make most expect that it would be a full implementation (I certainly expected it); we now find out it isn't and so any hope I had of using Scaler 2 in Reason is gone.

Furthermore, I believe that they have done it deliberately to protect their Player market. If VST midi support is added, suddenly a whole bunch of alternative options to the likes of Chord Sequencer are available - I didn't buy CS because Scaler 2 is far more in-depth for a similar price. If Players have to compete with VST alternatives then it might see a lucrative income stream die off, while also making the R+ package look less appealing

[avasopht]

Well, I am struggling to think of any other current DAW that has VST hosting that does not support midi VSTs, except Reason. The announcement that they were implementing VST3 support would make most expect that it would be a full implementation (I certainly expected it); we now find out it isn't and so any hope I had of using Scaler 2 in Reason is gone.

Furthermore, I believe that they have done it deliberately to protect their Player market. If VST midi support is added, suddenly a whole bunch of alternative options to the likes of Chord Sequencer are available - I didn't buy CS because Scaler 2 is far more in-depth for a similar price. If Players have to compete with VST alternatives then it might see a lucrative income stream die off, while also making the R+ package look less appealing

This presumes the line of reasoning is what other people would also have. But if we apply this logic to VST MIDI, why not apply it also to the presence of VSTs, right?

It also ignores the fact that not implementing it means they could lose far more users by not having a complete VST implementation. It also presumes that players will not be attractive anymore, even though players offer functionality that VST MIDI won't be able to match (e.g. cable routing and full rack integration).

Also ignores that anyone who wanted to use their existing VST MIDI effects would be pretty disappointed, so it wouldn't make real sense as a strategy to make more money.

And Mattias never said there would be no VST MIDI support but that it is on their list - it's just not a priority.

Alternatively, they could DELAY the introduction of VST3 support until they've implemented VST MIDI and any other missing VST feature.

[Danilo Villanova]

I wouldn’t stop using the players, if VST MIDI was supported, I’d probably create some giant stacked combinations. I hope it gets implemented sooner rather than later.

[Billy+]

And Mattias never said there would be no VST MIDI support but that it is on their list - it's just not a priority.

Alternatively, they could DELAY the introduction of VST3 support until they've implemented VST MIDI and any other missing VST feature.

My limited understanding is that Mattias was the one that convinced props to add vst support in the first place as we had been told for years that vst support would never happen and although it's frustrating that it still hasn't been fully implemented over all those years I'm still encouraged by the acknowledgement that maybe one day it will be however I do think it's worth noting that vst3 midi is more difficult for developers as it's missing from the vst3 SDK.

Personally I'm ok with waiting for features to be working rather than the current rolling releases - the current strategy of adding new features as and when was the first indication that R12 wasn't something I could buy into, right from the start all I could see happening was bugs followed by delays.

[mimidancer]

But I have never seen an SSL console fold up either.

Although you stated that jokingly (obviously), it is more to the point than you might think. I used Reaper for over a decade and NEVER used the collapse-folder feature it had all that time. Why? Because I have a Tascam US-2400 control surface, with 24 motorized faders, which worked flawlessly in Reaper. However, folding tracks didn't "fold" the controller mapping, so any relation between the folder tracks on screen and faders on the Tascam got lost when folding folders. As you said, you can't fold up a control surface, either.

I don't think I would fold channels even if that were an option. I use the faders on my KL61 MK2 without issue. The tascam sounds cool. I used to hang out in a studio as a teenager. My guitar teacher was/is a session player. He took me everywhere. I think that experience with real hardware is why I like reason. I don't want to work on some mixing matrix. I drag a chord and it plugs in where I need it to plug in. It feels right. I get the people that want the stuff in other DAWs. It's the constant complaining that drives me insane. Like you said use a daw for what it does. The expectation that because a different system has a feature then it should automatically be in the next upgrade on reason is bonkers. I understand if something that they said would be there ie M1 support and vst3 are still not done draws some disdain. But the crying about things they never said they would do is petty. If you figure out how to fold up your tascam, post a pic.

[mimidancer]

I guess what I disagree with is that the features are missing. Live has features that reason does not. And the other way too. That does not mean that either is missing features.

Well, I am struggling to think of any other current DAW that has VST hosting that does not support midi VSTs, except Reason. The announcement that they were implementing VST3 support would make most expect that it would be a full implementation (I certainly expected it); we now find out it isn't and so any hope I had of using Scaler 2 in Reason is gone.

Furthermore, I believe that they have done it deliberately to protect their Player market. If VST midi support is added, suddenly a whole bunch of alternative options to the likes of Chord Sequencer are available - I didn't buy CS because Scaler 2 is far more in-depth for a similar price. If Players have to compete with VST alternatives then it might see a lucrative income stream die off, while also making the R+ package look less appealing

you know scaler 2 works with bluecat inside of reason, right?

[Re8et]

I guess what I disagree with is that the features are missing. Live has features that reason does not. And the other way too. That does not mean that either is missing features.

If Players have to compete with VST alternatives then it might see a lucrative income stream die off, while also making the R+ package look less appealing

Looks like a conspiracy theory...

images.jpeg (9.04 KiB) Viewed 3870 times

[crimsonwarlock]

If you figure out how to fold up your tascam, post a pic.

My Tascam is still very much unfolded

viewtopic.php?p=596865#p596865

[selig]

If you figure out how to fold up your tascam, post a pic.

My Tascam is still very much unfolded

viewtopic.php?p=596865#p596865

In physical studios, folding/hiding tracks was done by taking off the slave reel.
Folding/hiding is one of those things that we WANTED in the physical world but is only possible in the software world, kinda like undo. Should be not allow undo because it's not possible to do with hardware?

Hiding tracks is a fantastic way to be able to be creative and try things, then put them on 'hold' and keep the clutter down if you're not sure the idea 100% works or not. Great for things like a guitar DI track you MAY need down the road, or a MIDI track for a track you printed, or alternate takes of a track you're not yet ready to discard, or any number of things SOME folks (but not all) find very useful.
If you're easily distractible like me, keeping these things handy but out of sight actually speeds up my workflow by allowing me to stay focused on what is actually important. Which is funny because my tracks are often very tidy, while my studio/house not so much…

[Billy+]

you know scaler 2 works with bluecat inside of reason, right?

Are you sure...... like I said previously it's not entirely a working solution but I would love to be proven wrong...

If I load scaler into blue cat
set the midi output to bus A
add an re to Reason
set bus a channel 1 to the re via advanced midi

I get nothing routed to the re...

It also doesn't report delay comp either, so again I say are you sure and if you are then please explain how.

[crimsonwarlock]

Folding/hiding is one of those things that we WANTED in the physical world but is only possible in the software world, kinda like undo. Should be not allow undo because it's not possible to do with hardware?

It is theoretically possible to 'fold' channels with hardware control surfaces. For that to work, the DAW needs to dynamically re-assign controller channels to the remaining visible channels on screen. With flying faders (that I do have on the Tascam), this should be doable. It would be the same as 'banking' through channel banks up and down. However, this is one of those things that seems pretty simple to achieve in software, but is in reality a pretty complex problem to solve. Not something a dev could implement in a few weeks. So, as far as I know, no existing DAW does currently remap a surface control's channels to the folded/unfolded state in the DAW. Which makes channel folding completely useless when using a hardware control surface for mixing.

[xylyx]

you know scaler 2 works with bluecat inside of reason, right?

Are you sure...... like I said previously it's not entirely a working solution but I would love to be proven wrong...

If I load scaler into blue cat
set the midi output to bus A
add an re to Reason
set bus a channel 1 to the re via advanced midi

I get nothing routed to the re...

It also doesn't report delay comp either, so again I say are you sure and if you are then please explain how.

I think the best way to workaround it is to use DDMF Metaplugin, which will wrap VST3 and 64/32-bit plugins. You can load Scaler 2 into Metaplugin, add the RRP as well and then route Scaler to RRP to send midi to Reason instruments. It's probably the best way of doing it and is much cheaper than Bluecat. The biggest issue with it, is that if you want to change any parameters, you need to open the Metaplugin interface, double click the VST and then make changes. Automating anything in the sequencer for the wrapped plugins will likely involve jumping through more hoops.

[Billy+]

Are you sure...... like I said previously it's not entirely a working solution but I would love to be proven wrong...

If I load scaler into blue cat
set the midi output to bus A
add an re to Reason
set bus a channel 1 to the re via advanced midi

I get nothing routed to the re...

It also doesn't report delay comp either, so again I say are you sure and if you are then please explain how.

I think the best way to workaround it is to use DDMF Metaplugin, which will wrap VST3 and 64/32-bit plugins. You can load Scaler 2 into Metaplugin, add the RRP as well and then route Scaler to RRP to send midi to Reason instruments. It's probably the best way of doing it and is much cheaper than Bluecat. The biggest issue with it, is that if you want to change any parameters, you need to open the Metaplugin interface, double click the VST and then make changes. Automating anything in the sequencer for the wrapped plugins will likely involve jumping through more hoops.

Yeah I'm aware of the numerous workarounds and elements is free but all of them fail to function in a manner that I find remotely acceptable hence my continued request for a fully implemented midi vst stack rather than the current instabilities caused by expensive not necessarily functional workarounds

[joeyluck]

@Billy, I was just remembering some of the software that is standalone—Mozaic's AutoTheory.

The RE version we got was a CV utility, before players were a thing. I remember seeing the standalone software and thinking, that makes sense! It was available to use with Reason even before VST support, because it was standalone and recognized as a controller.

https://www.loopmasters.com/articles/37 ... am-Pollard

AutoTheory is a MIDI mapping software that sits between your keyboard (or qwerty) and your DAW. It receives midi from your keyboard and sends multiple “virtual MIDI controllers” into your DAW, it is not a plug in.

[Billy+]

@Billy, I was just remembering some of the software that is standalone—Mozaic's AutoTheory.

The RE version we got was a CV utility, before players were a thing. I remember seeing the standalone software and thinking, that makes sense! It was available to use with Reason even before VST support, because it was standalone and recognized as a controller.

https://www.loopmasters.com/articles/37 ... am-Pollard

AutoTheory is a MIDI mapping software that sits between your keyboard (or qwerty) and your DAW. It receives midi from your keyboard and sends multiple “virtual MIDI controllers” into your DAW, it is not a plug in.

i have both

AutoTheory.jpg (179.22 KiB) Viewed 3766 times

although the standalone version i got was a cut version free with CM, but yes it worked well..

[nscerri]

Following this update I have seen a major improvement in performance, especially when opening multiple projects at one go. The fact that now we have the option to choose the number of cores is letting my laptop breath, and if something loads in the background it does not impact Reason. The CPU is barely reaching level 2 DSP, and I have some heavy projects for live performance. Finally, it would make sense to upgrade to 32GB Ram as now it handles much more

Kudos to the team, this has been one of the best updates since the performance enhancement on VST. Keep it up guys.

[moalla]

Are you sure...... like I said previously it's not entirely a working solution but I would love to be proven wrong...

If I load scaler into blue cat
set the midi output to bus A
add an re to Reason
set bus a channel 1 to the re via advanced midi

I get nothing routed to the re...

It also doesn't report delay comp either, so again I say are you sure and if you are then please explain how.

I think the best way to workaround it is to use DDMF Metaplugin, which will wrap VST3 and 64/32-bit plugins. You can load Scaler 2 into Metaplugin, add the RRP as well and then route Scaler to RRP to send midi to Reason instruments. It's probably the best way of doing it and is much cheaper than Bluecat. The biggest issue with it, is that if you want to change any parameters, you need to open the Metaplugin interface, double click the VST and then make changes. Automating anything in the sequencer for the wrapped plugins will likely involve jumping through more hoops.

Your funny, 20 bugs cheaper than a sale upgrade of Reason....
I´m now more interested in new Rack Extension especial Players , and more and more i still using fewer VST effects,
I am sure that Reasonstudios are well consired if they won´t open midi VST3 not so fast, to save the Player habitat



Maybee that´s one view at the truth of future updates.
But who consider to use VST stuff is out of tune, when this discussion changes nothing at the front of future improvements.
I am postive that we will see some big improvements for the Comb2 with V13, maybee the will give us a dynamic graphic interface for Comb2, to edit our own sequencers with this css html construction kit looking like comb editor features.... ²

I think it´s worth to give more attention to the reason eco system, than in third party interfaces

[joeyluck]

@Billy, I was just remembering some of the software that is standalone—Mozaic's AutoTheory.

The RE version we got was a CV utility, before players were a thing. I remember seeing the standalone software and thinking, that makes sense! It was available to use with Reason even before VST support, because it was standalone and recognized as a controller.

https://www.loopmasters.com/articles/37 ... am-Pollard

i have both
AutoTheory.jpg

although the standalone version i got was a cut version free with CM, but yes it worked well..

Cool. Yeah I was poking around and I'm not sure if the standalone version is available any longer? Anyways, yeah I wish more devs who made MIDI plugins, also made them available as standalone, but few seem to do that.

[Billy+]

i have both
AutoTheory.jpg

although the standalone version i got was a cut version free with CM, but yes it worked well..

Cool. Yeah I was poking around and I'm not sure if the standalone version is available any longer? Anyways, yeah I wish more devs who made MIDI plugins, also made them available as standalone, but few seem to do that.

i quite like MiK captain solution, they added vst hosting right into it so you can swap out their sounds in favor of your own devices, unfortunately you can load RRP as its V3 not 2.4

[Billy+]

Your funny, 20 bugs cheaper than a sale upgrade of Reason....
I´m now more interested in new Rack Extension especial Players , and more and more i still using fewer VST effects,
I am sure that Reasonstudios are well consired if they won´t open midi VST3 not so fast, to save the Player habitat

yeah i love players it's just a shame that they are so over priced, i still think £25 is the upper limit for most of the RS players but hey.....

the thing about midi support vs players is just stupid thinking if they are concerned with loosing revenue as i for one would still buy the players even if i think they are over priced, i like having options plan and simple. and although i think vst's offer more i still love stacking players that why i think they are missing a trick by creating some kind of device that would allow us to load vst midi into a player stack.....

[mimidancer]

you know scaler 2 works with bluecat inside of reason, right?

Are you sure...... like I said previously it's not entirely a working solution but I would love to be proven wrong...

If I load scaler into blue cat
set the midi output to bus A
add an re to Reason
set bus a channel 1 to the re via advanced midi

I get nothing routed to the re...

It also doesn't report delay comp either, so again I say are you sure and if you are then please explain how.

I am sure. just tested it for you. set up a 2by2 in bluecat. Left slide load scaler. Right side load your vst. With a single click on the scaler name click. It will make a dropdown. there click midi out and select a midi port. I just chose the first one. Then on your VST single click and choose midi in. the channel. use the post you chose for scaler. It will also have host midi selected by default unclick that so that it is only receiving data from scaler. Use the VST3 version of scaler.

[Billy+]

I am sure. just tested it for you. set up a 2by2 in bluecat. Left slide load scaler. Right side load your vst.

its not routing the midi into an RE its loading a vst inside bluecat which is total not what im asking for................

i guess we are going to have to agree to disagree

roll on 2025 maybe just maybe we might get a daw with 2000's technology fully implemented