Reason real life limitations.

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selig
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29 Jul 2022

Jac459 wrote:
28 Jul 2022
selig wrote:
28 Jul 2022
Came to point out Reason could do all of this (except MPE support of course) since BEFORE Bitwig even EXISTED.
As a side note, Reason could also do the chord pitch bend thing, though not at all elegantly BUT DOABLE, long before MPE was available. :)
I am curious on the pitch bend for chord, would you mind sharing the trick?

Reason is indeed an awesome product with an awesome ecosystem (on which you actively contribute and thanks for that). And even now I still discover new features (including with this post).
I am just thinking that it can also be a great combo with other products like bitwig which are somehow less rich but also more agile on new standard market features.
I’d do what you said originally, one note per instrument separated either via Distributer or CV to MIDI Player. It will NOT be as elegant as if you had an MPE controller, but certainly almost as easy as drawing it in manually with an MPE capable sequencer. The main difference would be using multiple synths vs one MPE enabled synth, so it has more to do with the synth and controller being MPE than the DAW IMO…
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Jac459
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29 Jul 2022

selig wrote:
29 Jul 2022

I’d do what you said originally, one note per instrument separated either via Distributer or CV to MIDI Player. It will NOT be as elegant as if you had an MPE controller, but certainly almost as easy as drawing it in manually with an MPE capable sequencer. The main difference would be using multiple synths vs one MPE enabled synth, so it has more to do with the synth and controller being MPE than the DAW IMO…
Gotcha. If you are playing with some parameters of the synth it can become a bit troublesome to do on all in sync but should be ok :-).
Bitwig and RRP fanboy...

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crimsonwarlock
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29 Jul 2022

Jac459 wrote:
29 Jul 2022
Gotcha. If you are playing with some parameters of the synth it can become a bit troublesome to do on all in sync but should be ok :-).
You do know you can use a combinator for that, right?
-------
Analog tape ⇒ ESQ1 sequencer board ⇒ Atari/Steinberg Pro24 ⇒ Atari/Cubase ⇒ Cakewalk Sonar ⇒ Orion Pro/Platinum ⇒ Reaper ⇒ Reason DAW.

Jac459
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29 Jul 2022

crimsonwarlock wrote:
29 Jul 2022


You do know you can use a combinator for that, right?
I do 😊.
But still, I guess it only save time if I reuse same synths and same parameters after.

By the way, combinator is one of the awesomeness of reason that is perfectly usable in reason as a rack.
Bitwig and RRP fanboy...

xbitz
Posts: 154
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31 Jul 2022

RobC wrote:
28 Jul 2022
crimsonwarlock wrote:
28 Jul 2022


This one gets overlooked a lot, and it's free: https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... generator/
Lol, I overlooked it, too, sadly, because it's called envelope generator and not envelope follower.

But does it beat MClass Compressor and Pulverizer's envelope follower then?

If I understand correctly, an envelope follower takes audio, smoothens/simplifies it (both with attack and release and maybe a knee shaping), then turns it to CV data?
Mace also has a gain reduction CV outs https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... ompressor/ if you miss some visual feedback
:reason: :recycle: :re: :record: :refill: :rt:

Jac459
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31 Jul 2022

xbitz wrote:
31 Jul 2022
Mace also has a gain reduction CV outs https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... ompressor/ if you miss some visual feedback
Looks pretty awesome. And it kind of has visual feedback which is good for the mastering noob I am.
Bitwig and RRP fanboy...

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selig
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31 Jul 2022

xbitz wrote:
31 Jul 2022
RobC wrote:
28 Jul 2022


Lol, I overlooked it, too, sadly, because it's called envelope generator and not envelope follower.

But does it beat MClass Compressor and Pulverizer's envelope follower then?

If I understand correctly, an envelope follower takes audio, smoothens/simplifies it (both with attack and release and maybe a knee shaping), then turns it to CV data?
Mace also has a gain reduction CV outs https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... ompressor/ if you miss some visual feedback
I still prefer the graphics in Sweepers Follower, still the best envelope follower I’ve found for Reason (so far)!
Selig Audio, LLC

Jac459
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01 Aug 2022

selig wrote:
31 Jul 2022

I still prefer the graphics in Sweepers Follower, still the best envelope follower I’ve found for Reason (so far)!
Forgot to test sweepers this week-end, I'll do this week...
Bitwig and RRP fanboy...

ReasonOCD
Posts: 34
Joined: 04 Aug 2022

05 Aug 2022

Arrant wrote:
29 Jul 2022
Actual Reason real life limitations:
- No VST3
- No VST MIDI out
- No track folders
- No markers
- No video support
The No markers is what kills reason for me and feel its not worth upgrading

Thanks for the heads up :clap:

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MrFigg
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19 Sep 2022

Jac459 wrote:
27 Jul 2022

Advanced pitch bending.
Problem : I wan to transition from a chord to another chord by individually pitch bending each note (and not a global pitchbend that would not respect intervals).
Solution in bitwig:
... Pitchbend each note using mpe...
Solution in reason:
Create a note per instrument??
Would this plugin help?
https://www.adsrsounds.com/product/soft ... h-shifter/
🗲 2ॐ ᛉ

Jac459
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19 Sep 2022

MrFigg wrote:
19 Sep 2022
Jac459 wrote:
27 Jul 2022

Advanced pitch bending.
Problem : I wan to transition from a chord to another chord by individually pitch bending each note (and not a global pitchbend that would not respect intervals).
Solution in bitwig:
... Pitchbend each note using mpe...
Solution in reason:
Create a note per instrument??
Would this plugin help?
https://www.adsrsounds.com/product/soft ... h-shifter/
Definitely he he. Still not like controlling individually each pitch of each note. But it covers the main use case in my view...
Bitwig and RRP fanboy...

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mcatalao
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21 Sep 2022

Arrant wrote:
29 Jul 2022
Actual Reason real life limitations:
- No VST3
- No VST MIDI out
- No track folders
- No markers
- No video support
Add to that no Auto Punch in, wich for me is more important than any of those (and tbh, is more idiotic for reason not to have, as that was part of freaking ADAT recorders and the more advanced tape recorders in the 80s and 90s).
And track freezing.

That being said, for my way of making music, I can't think of a single feature a daw has that reason doesn't and blocks me from doing what i want. What i mean is there isn't a feature that blocks you from making music, or that is limiting to a point you can't advance a production. You have to do stuff in a more convoluted way, like freezing (bounce in place - reason's archaic freeze) a big amount of tracks will probably make more sense to export the whole project before mixing. Or if you have a big orchestral project you need to prep up on your project color coding skills.

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mcatalao
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21 Sep 2022

Actually the advanced pitch bending thing seems to be something you'd work out with portamento in synths and samplers, and reason has that since like almost forever? I guess you'd just need a way to activate and deactivate portamento by midi or CV.

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MrFigg
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22 Mar 2023

PItch Innovations Fluid Chords is on sale for $24.99 on Audio Plugin Deals. Anybody use it/ like it?
https://audioplugin.deals/product/fluid ... 49e00e5a3b
🗲 2ॐ ᛉ

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visheshl
Posts: 1235
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22 Mar 2023

RobC wrote:
28 Jul 2022
crimsonwarlock wrote:
28 Jul 2022


This one gets overlooked a lot, and it's free: https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... generator/
Lol, I overlooked it, too, sadly, because it's called envelope generator and not envelope follower.

But does it beat MClass Compressor and Pulverizer's envelope follower then?

If I understand correctly, an envelope follower takes audio, smoothens/simplifies it (both with attack and release and maybe a knee shaping), then turns it to CV data?
Lol i downloaded it when i needed an envelope generator, because it showed up in the search results.
But i couldn't make any sense of what it did, now i understand 😅😅😅
Good to know i have this device already.
Visual feedback would be nice on this thing though...and please add in the description that it is not an envelope generator, but an audio to cv signal converter...

RobC
Posts: 1832
Joined: 10 Mar 2018

23 Mar 2023

visheshl wrote:
22 Mar 2023
RobC wrote:
28 Jul 2022


Lol, I overlooked it, too, sadly, because it's called envelope generator and not envelope follower.

But does it beat MClass Compressor and Pulverizer's envelope follower then?

If I understand correctly, an envelope follower takes audio, smoothens/simplifies it (both with attack and release and maybe a knee shaping), then turns it to CV data?
Lol i downloaded it when i needed an envelope generator, because it showed up in the search results.
But i couldn't make any sense of what it did, now i understand 😅😅😅
Good to know i have this device already.
Visual feedback would be nice on this thing though...and please add in the description that it is not an envelope generator, but an audio to cv signal converter...
I totally forgot about this - I got so buried in my studio upgrading... But yeah, Sweeper may or may not do a better job.

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selig
RE Developer
Posts: 11685
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: The NorthWoods, CT, USA

24 Mar 2023

RobC wrote:
28 Jul 2022
crimsonwarlock wrote:
28 Jul 2022


This one gets overlooked a lot, and it's free: https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... generator/
Lol, I overlooked it, too, sadly, because it's called envelope generator and not envelope follower.

But does it beat MClass Compressor and Pulverizer's envelope follower then?

If I understand correctly, an envelope follower takes audio, smoothens/simplifies it (both with attack and release and maybe a knee shaping), then turns it to CV data?
An envelope follower works on the entire signal, first rectifying it then applying time constants for rising (attack) and falling (release) signal changes. There is no threshold since you want to convert the entire audio envelope coming into the device.
So basically it takes a bi-polar signal, converts it to uni-polar and adds attack/release ‘smoothing’.

As for ‘beating’ the other devices, I feel Sweeper does all the things you would ever want/need from an envelope follower (and adds a trigger).

Side note: MClass is not an envelope follower exactly, but uses one internally to generate it’s gain reduction. What it sends out is an inverted threshold based signal derived from the internal envelope follower, and reflecting the compressor settings included ratio. Strictly speaking, an envelope follower would not necessarily have a threshold and certainly not have a ratio affecting it’s output, and would put out a positive CV signal with positive audio signals (not an inverted ‘gain reduction’ based signal).
Selig Audio, LLC

RobC
Posts: 1832
Joined: 10 Mar 2018

03 Apr 2023

selig wrote:
24 Mar 2023
RobC wrote:
28 Jul 2022


Lol, I overlooked it, too, sadly, because it's called envelope generator and not envelope follower.

But does it beat MClass Compressor and Pulverizer's envelope follower then?

If I understand correctly, an envelope follower takes audio, smoothens/simplifies it (both with attack and release and maybe a knee shaping), then turns it to CV data?
An envelope follower works on the entire signal, first rectifying it then applying time constants for rising (attack) and falling (release) signal changes. There is no threshold since you want to convert the entire audio envelope coming into the device.
So basically it takes a bi-polar signal, converts it to uni-polar and adds attack/release ‘smoothing’.

As for ‘beating’ the other devices, I feel Sweeper does all the things you would ever want/need from an envelope follower (and adds a trigger).

Side note: MClass is not an envelope follower exactly, but uses one internally to generate it’s gain reduction. What it sends out is an inverted threshold based signal derived from the internal envelope follower, and reflecting the compressor settings included ratio. Strictly speaking, an envelope follower would not necessarily have a threshold and certainly not have a ratio affecting it’s output, and would put out a positive CV signal with positive audio signals (not an inverted ‘gain reduction’ based signal).
Ah, I forgot the rectifying.
I would say, I'd prefer an envelope that's as accurate as possible, but also pleasant sounding, so a couple of extra controls, like with the MClass may not be bad, but when I made a multi-band gate before the RE, and VST, even the SSL gate era; so back on R5.0, it just didn't sound the best. For example, I rather did that job with Goldwave, even if it needed batch processing, and wasn't "live" audio.

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