Discover?

[jfrichards]

T-O-T-A-L  W-A-S-T-E.  You think they could have done something else with their time. Stuff like this has already been going on.

N O T a total waste.  It's nice and easy and sometimes inspiring.

http://phead.mu/s/XnQy0iOH

Especially not a waste because I learned next time don't sit with the single coil pickup facing directly at the computer!

[Yorick]

I don't think we are at a point in evolution just yet where people want to give away their art for the sake of sharing, not music anyway.

I'm a part of two industry forums, and the general consensus among professional, working musicians is that free music devalues the craft and the industry will suffer in the long term.

I agree with that sentiment. 100%

[Yorick]

T-O-T-A-L  W-A-S-T-E.  You think they could have done something else with their time. Stuff like this has already been going on.

N O T a total waste.  It's nice and easy and sometimes inspiring.

http://phead.mu/s/XnQy0iOH

Especially not a waste because I learned next time don't sit with the single coil pickup facing directly at the computer!

Nice track bro. I like it.

[Lunesis]

Original:

http://phead.mu/s/jC8Yq77J

+ Adam Fielding + Lunesis:

http://phead.mu/s/js1kYfnR

8-)

[craven]

Original:

http://phead.mu/s/jC8Yq77J

+ Adam Fielding + Lunesis:

http://phead.mu/s/js1kYfnR

8-)

good stuff! was it fun using discover? almost sounds like it

[Lunesis]

Thanks! I think once people get over their outrage at the forum shutdown they might open their minds to it. The neat thing about it is you're putting something totally basic out there and it could branch out into a dozen different other ideas that are totally unexpected, which then branch out into even more ideas, like a musical tree. The further it goes up the tree the more refined it becomes. It's like musical evolution. Something fun to try at least.

[Tumble]

Would just be nice if they could bother with Android apps aswell. And no, the latency thing isn't an excuse anymore.

[jappe]

Would just be nice if they could bother with Android apps aswell. And no, the latency thing isn't an excuse anymore.

Agree. 
If there's trouble with latency, adapt to the limitations and find a paradigm that works.

Sunvox works excellent on Android.
My advice to Prop's: Try to get the software genious Alexander "Sunvox" Zolotov onboard!

http://www.warmplace.ru/soft/sunvox/

[zeebot]

Here is another issue that props should have seen coming a mile away but seems haven't...

http://phead.mu/s/9HWDUbR3

So this song I would assume is still copyrighted? So how does this work now that its free to use according to props EULA of discover.
What is stopping people uploading copyrighted recordings which are then free to distribute to any take or reason user?
Its one thing uploading a track to youtube or soundcloud but when its being imported directly into a DAW for editing and use in a track that could potentially make money then I'm sure the owners of those copyrights would soon be on the phone to their lawyers.
Discover is just a bad bad idea from a lot of angles.
I think it was prematurely launched without much forethought. Its still in beta so hopefully they will just put a bullet in it quietly around the back. 

[Jagwah]

Its one thing uploading a track to youtube or soundcloud but when its being imported directly into a DAW for editing and use in a track that could potentially make money then I'm sure the owners of those copyrights would soon be on the phone to their lawyers.

Ouch, good point.

[zeebot]

 Not at all, you can also download or record or else rip anything from SC & YouTube & put it directly to your DAW!

The point being that that would be user based infringement. With Take and Discover props could potentially be providing a service to directly infringe on copyrighted material.
By allowing DIRECT upload to their program (Reason) for the sole purpose of manipulating and using in another production.
A lot of difference from an individual doing it and a company.
I'm not a lawyer but even I can see a minefield of legality right there.

I mean seriously, check out this 'latest drop' by dancersara20. Anyone up for a collaboration or a lawsuit?

http://phead.mu/s/lfSgCPjm

[Jagwah]

It's just a .wav file it's not even multi tracked. If it was that easy I wouldn't have been scouring the net for years looking for acapellas and multi tracks wherever I can find them. 'It's just a beta' seems to be the excuse for anything negative about it, that was clever.

[EnochLight]

Can't use it since I'm on 6.5.
Oh and thanks Props for leaving me out in the cold by forcing all RE developers to implemented SDK 2 whether needed or not.

Heeeeeey Danny's back!  Welcome to the forum, man.   :s0238:

That said, you're on an almost 3 year old version of Reason.  You can't expect it to support new features being introduced in RE's forevs, right?  Don't sweat it - if you were to upgrade to 8.1 today - the amount of features and improvements you would get would be immense.  Worth every bit of $129 USD.  Though... sucks you missed out on free Syncronous.  That's a bad ass RE.

[Llama Chops]

I'm a little confused by the whole Discover paradigm. I get that people can use 'snippets' of others ideas and add to it, it gets added to then what? At what point could you say the tune is ever a completed work as somebody could always make a longer track from it and then what ever becomes of it, try get it on a radio station for air play, sell on iTunes? and who gets writing credits/royalties, all "7.5 million" of us? As others have stated, surely if you want to collaborate seriously there are better methods than Discover. It may be fun for a few days when you have been noodling around in Take or Figure on your iPhone but I can see many terabytes of hard disc space being taken up with thirty second chunks of snapshots of ideas.
Not to mention the copyright issue!
*picks up soap box and exits stage left*

[Gaja]

I don't think this is about royalties or any of the sort...
The only thing I'd see as problematic is when someone uploads content that has been copyrighted before (like Zeebot pointed out). But is anyone here seriously considering props would have done anything in that direction without sound legal advice (and probably from different lawyer)? I'm quite certain that any lawyer who works in that kind of industry would examine everything extra carefully, because the one thing they can't afford is to disgrace themselves. Also I don't think these are thtings that actually need to concern us right now.
It's a really simple thing. You read the terms of service and agree to the conditions or you don't. That's all.
About someone making tons of money with a loop of mine... How awesome would that be? Pretty fucking awesome!
But then again how often does that happen? Right... Not so often.
People seem to be offended by the thought of sharing their music.
Karma said the general consensus is that free music devalues the craft and harms the industry... And I think this is actually part of the problem with "today's music" the focus is on the money and not on the art.
I couldn't care less about harm to the industry, because the industry harms the art, by implying that the music is less valuably, when it's free. Imo that's just bogus. It's a misguided concept that assumes money to be the highest value of them all and anything which doesn't serve the ultimate purpose of making more money, is less valuable. I don't want to start a discussion about the advantages of representative currencies, but O think it's important to acknowledge that music has much more than just a monetary value.
What this service is offering can be an opportunity to help people look behind the shallow facade of montary value and get back to the inherent values of the music itself. People can grow with music, it can relax them, inspire, make them dance, have a massive conversation about the meaning of life (or whatever), or take them right into other planes of consciousness. Through the listening or performing of music people grow together, make bonds where there only used to be abyssmal emptiness before.

Yes yes I'm dreaming again. Largely exaggerated.

But still if you don't want to participate then don't. I really think discover could become a massive and resounding success, if they added more features to the site and perhaps some better kind of browsing.

[Yonatan]

I think that the Discover-function should better be a closed thing, not open to see/hear for everyone.
And I think that there better be a more serious creative tool, where ppl discover each others work. 
For instance, I can make available different sound clips and indicate which one I want to have feedback 
on the mixing, or mastering, and which clips/songs I seek collaboration in some way co-writing; 
seeking a lyricist, a singer of a certain kind, a trumpet solo, real drums, a nice fitting loop, or whatever.
And the deal should be to give credit to each other, in words, and money or barter, if professional.
Handling money might be too messy and full of trouble for the props, so my suggestion would
rather be that probably the most natural sharing way would be some kind of barter, 
which is just common sense logic among people:
"I add this to you, maybe you later want to add some of your nice vocals on my new track,
or help me with giving feedback to my mixes" etc.
 
Then it is a true collaboration that come to my mind, and would be fruitful to me and others. 

[avasopht]

I worry that their hyper-focus on Discover will rebrand them in the public eye in a way that further defines them as a "fun, not serious" company.  They may be okay with that, but it's a bit sad for me.

yes, especially since we are afraid that Reason won't get the updates it desperately needs (browser behavior, midi d'n'd, grouping, etc.) 

I think someone made the great point that it's highly unlikely that Propellerhead's C++ programmers are devoting their time to HTML5. It's much more likely that they've either hired HTML5/PHP programmers or just outsourced.

That being said, you never know what plans they have for changes to Reason itself.

I think the licensing model has a lot of room for improvement

[jfrichards]

...
I'm not a lawyer but even I can see a minefield of legality right there.

I mean seriously, check out this 'latest drop' by dancersara20. Anyone up for a collaboration or a lawsuit?

http://phead.mu/s/lfSgCPjm

I can't take this argument or example seriously.  This is a 12 year old kid putting his iPhone next to his Mom's car radio and recording two little pieces of his favorite One Direction songs so he can listen to it on his iPhone without having to buy from iTunes.  The quality is way below what I recorded into the cassette recorder in my 1973 JVC boombox.  Nobody has ever cared what you record off the radio.  Do you have a concrete example of a lawsuit arising from recording off the radio?  All that stuff has been worked out fairly well on Youtube these days, where you can listen to and link to almost every song ever made.  And the big dogs come and bite those who try to circumvent royalty payments.  This is all well known and applies to Discover equally.

[zeebot]

But you seem to be another missing the argument.
Yes, recording, ripping, copying of audio has been going on since tape recorders were invented.
What is different here is that props are providing a service NOT just for listening (youtube, lastFM etc etc) we know people upload music illegally all over the net but they are providing a service directly linked to a DAW thats main if not only purpose is to take audio (no matter how badly recorded) to be edited and included in another production.
That is a legal minefield as I said, if someone takes that recording of one direction, uploads it DIRECTLY into R8 and creates a hit with it who do you think the lawyers for 1D are going to pursue? The 22 year old bedroom producer who will say, "well it was on Discovery so I assumed it was fine to remix it" or the 12 year old girl who is utterly clueless or the company that made the software that facilitated this copyright infringement?

[jfrichards]

But you seem to be another missing the argument.
Yes, recording, ripping, copying of audio has been going on since tape recorders were invented.
What is different here is that props are providing a service NOT just for listening (youtube, lastFM etc etc) we know people upload music illegally all over the net but they are providing a service directly linked to a DAW thats main if not only purpose is to take audio (no matter how badly recorded) to be edited and included in another production.
That is a legal minefield as I said, if someone takes that recording of one direction, uploads it DIRECTLY into R8 and creates a hit with it who do you think the lawyers for 1D are going to pursue? The 22 year old bedroom producer who will say, "well it was on Discovery so I assumed it was fine to remix it" or the 12 year old girl who is utterly clueless or the company that made the software that facilitated this copyright infringement?

But Zee, right now I can take any CD, copy in into my iMac and drag it into Reason.  Does that make Apple and Propellerheads and the factory that makes CD's liable for allowing and encouraging my actions?  I can stream any digital music from my iMac through my TCE interface and back into Reason.  Is TC Electronic liable for my actions?  If you stab someone with a Sears kitchen knife, is Sears liable?

[avasopht]

But you seem to be another missing the argument.
Yes, recording, ripping, copying of audio has been going on since tape recorders were invented.
What is different here is that props are providing a service NOT just for listening (youtube, lastFM etc etc) we know people upload music illegally all over the net but they are providing a service directly linked to a DAW thats main if not only purpose is to take audio (no matter how badly recorded) to be edited and included in another production.
That is a legal minefield as I said, if someone takes that recording of one direction, uploads it DIRECTLY into R8 and creates a hit with it who do you think the lawyers for 1D are going to pursue? The 22 year old bedroom producer who will say, "well it was on Discovery so I assumed it was fine to remix it" or the 12 year old girl who is utterly clueless or the company that made the software that facilitated this copyright infringement?

In the unlikely event he creates a hit with it they will sue whichever label published it, as I imagine they've always done.

Whoever failed to do their due diligence will have a good yelling at too

[zeebot]

But Zee, right now I can take any CD, copy in into my iMac and drag it into Reason.  Does that make Apple and Propellerheads and the factory that makes CD's liable for allowing and encouraging my actions?  I can stream any digital music from my iMac through my TCE interface and back into Reason.  Is TC Electronic liable for my actions?  If you stab someone with a Sears kitchen knife, is Sears liable?

Yes and if you did that you would be breaking copyright, but if a service provided a way for you to automatically load it into a DAW then they would also be breaking the copyright firstly for hosting the copyrighted material and secondly (and more importantly) for allowing users to upload the copyrighted material directly into a music creation suite.
I dont really get how people cant see the difference?