The UFO Thread

[orthodox]

[plaamook]

Oh yeah...

[bxbrkrz]

[orthodox]

<video>

TL;DW

Did anyone say anything?

[bxbrkrz]

<video>

TL;DW

Did anyone say anything?

Yes.

[bxbrkrz]

[EnochLight]

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 6997800189

hmmmmmmmmmmm.jpg (111.16 KiB) Viewed 1303 times

[bxbrkrz]

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 6997800189


hmmmmmmmmmmm.jpg

Obama asked officials about the existence of aliens as US president. What did they tell him?

It has been long believed that the United States has first hand access to aliens, and that they constitute part of the secrets that lie in Area 51, a highly classified US Air Force Facility in Nevada.

Turns out, former US President Barack Obama had sought knowledge of aliens, and reached out to his officials to find out how much they know about aliens. Did he receive an answer? Yes. Is Obama willing to share details about extraterrestrial secrets with the rest of us? Unfortunately, no.

Appearing on the Late Show with Stephen Colbert this week, Obama was asked by Colbert about the kind of classified information he sought during his presidency.

Obama confirmed to Colbert that he asked officials about aliens, but to no avail, as the rest of us will never find out.

On the topic of UFOs Obama said - “Certainly asked about it”.

When Colbert pressed him for more details with a hungry “And?”, he responded with “Can’t tell you”, and followed with a “sorry”. In short, Obama knows something that we don’t. But will he tell us? Most probably not.

Colbert also processed his response along similar lines. “I’ll take that as a yes”, he said to Obama, while adding that if there were no aliens, he would have said that there were none.

“You just played your hand”, he added, while jokingly saying “I thought you were a poker player”.

In classic Obama style, he topped off the alien conversation with “Feel free to think that”. Earlier, former US President Bill Clinton had told Jimmy Kimmel that he wouldn’t be surprised if aliens existed.

Clinton also said that he had looked into Area 51 and details of what it harboured, and concluded that there were no aliens on the airbase.

[EnochLight]

....

Meanwhile, 20 years ago:

https://www.theguardian.com/science/200 ... n.research

LMAO.JPG (278.68 KiB) Viewed 1292 times

[Tiny Montgomery]

....

Meanwhile, 20 years ago:

https://www.theguardian.com/science/200 ... n.research


LMAO.JPG

This (from 2002, lol) literally has no value in the current paradigm because while their provenance has not yet been established, the fact that there is a 'phenomenon' that has been viewed and recorded is now beyond reasonable doubt.

Interesting also that when people no longer have the "its all in your mind, its a weather phenomenon or its Venus" gambit available they resort to impugning the mental health of the messenger instead. Absolutely worthless Reddit scepticism that belongs in the noughties.

[EnochLight]

This (from 2002, lol) literally has no value in the current paradigm because while their provenance has not yet been established, the fact that there is a 'phenomenon' that has been viewed and recorded is now beyond reasonable doubt.

Interesting also that when people no longer have the "its all in your mind, its a weather phenomenon or its Venus" gambit available they resort to impugning the mental health of the messenger instead. Absolutely worthless Reddit scepticism that belongs in the noughties.

We've had "viewed and recorded" footage without reasonable doubt for decades, but an unexplained phenomena does not equal "IT MUST BE ALIENS FROM ANOTHER PLANET". A healthy dose of skepticism absolutely belongs here, otherwise you can explain the entire universe by saying: a magic sky daddy did it, and leave it at that. Oh, and aliens.

There's plenty of evidence that points to a belief in aliens visiting us with all of the things mentioned above. Don't shoot the messenger. Just trying to keep things interesting in a discussion where everyone seems to think the aliens are here.

[bxbrkrz]

Meanwhile, 20 years ago:

https://www.theguardian.com/science/200 ... n.research


LMAO.JPG

This (from 2002, lol) literally has no value in the current paradigm because while their provenance has not yet been established, the fact that there is a 'phenomenon' that has been viewed and recorded is now beyond reasonable doubt.

Interesting also that when people no longer have the "its all in your mind, its a weather phenomenon or its Venus" gambit available they resort to impugning the mental health of the messenger instead. Absolutely worthless Reddit scepticism that belongs in the noughties.

I love how someone live rent free in some finger-wagging person's mind.
Thank you for your service OP.

We move forward, while fully respecting the rules of the game from the power that be, rules that can change at any time, derailing the thread

[Tiny Montgomery]

This (from 2002, lol) literally has no value in the current paradigm because while their provenance has not yet been established, the fact that there is a 'phenomenon' that has been viewed and recorded is now beyond reasonable doubt.

Interesting also that when people no longer have the "its all in your mind, its a weather phenomenon or its Venus" gambit available they resort to impugning the mental health of the messenger instead. Absolutely worthless Reddit scepticism that belongs in the noughties.

We've had "viewed and recorded" footage without reasonable doubt for decades, but an unexplained phenomena does not equal "IT MUST BE ALIENS FROM ANOTHER PLANET". A healthy dose of skepticism absolutely belongs here, otherwise you can explain the entire universe by saying: a magic sky daddy did it, and leave it at that. Oh, and aliens.

There's plenty of evidence that points to a belief in aliens visiting us with all of the things mentioned above. Don't shoot the messenger. Just trying to keep things interesting in a discussion where everyone seems to think the aliens are here.

Both of those statements are non sequiturs Mr Logic.

That footage didn't receive any official confirmation or acknowledgement until a couple of years ago though did it? That was literally the point of the thread. I even allowed for the possibility that the whole thing is a psyop. Even the most enthusiastic posters in this thread arent saying its *definitely* aliens - no reasonable sceptic would say that based on available evidence.

If you genuinely think there is 'plenty of evidence' of an observable phenomena (like I do) why would you bring up obscure long forgotten studies about a correlation between these kinds of beliefs and mental health issues? Its clear that both of the sources you brought were working under the premise that any phenomena observed would likely have a prosaic explanation and that any speculation further than that could be evidence of a mental health issue. But in the new paradigm where we have UAP filmed and released by the most advanced military force in the world then that premise is no longer solid as the basis of a study. Even if there were some kind of weak correlation its completely irrelevant to establishing the factual basis of the observed phenomena that has now been filmed by military fighter jets.

So, no, I dont consider your interventions to be in good faith or "just trying to keep things interesting". After I bring up Reddit you start doing Reddit atheism like a 15 year old apropos of...nothing?! Who brought God into it? You! I bet you still think 'flying spaghetti monster' is hilarious right?

Its us asking questions who are the sceptics. People grasping at straws (and discredited studies) to imply there is a mental illness component to simply asking the question or being curious about the topic are the ones looking to close down the debate and close down inquiry. You're replying to posts you've read in your head and your prior beliefs about what "UFO people" are like (Trumpian believers in God right?1 Not good reasonable like you).

[EnochLight]

I love how someone live rent free in some finger-wagging person's mind.
Thank you for your service OP.

What does that even mean?

We move forward, while fully respecting the rules of the game from the power that be, rules that can change at any time, derailing the thread

So anyone presenting evidence that doesn't support a belief that the aliens have landed... is derailing the thread? I didn't realize this was a "only for people who believe the aliens have landed" thread.

Both of those statements are non sequiturs Mr Logic.

Not really.

I even allowed for the possibility that the whole thing is a psyop.

Judging from your responses, it seems to have worked.

Even the most enthusiastic posters in this thread arent saying its *definitely* aliens - no reasonable sceptic would say that based on available evidence.

Exactly my point, hence me adding information to the thread that suggests there are other explanations. If you two aren't capable of entertaining other possibilities without feeling like this is a personal affront to your thread, then you've got other issues to work out.

So, no, I dont consider your interventions to be in good faith or "just trying to keep things interesting".

I bet you still think 'flying spaghetti monster' is hilarious right?

You mean.. It isn't?

[bxbrkrz]

I love how someone live rent free in some finger-wagging person's mind.
Thank you for your service OP.

What does that even mean?

We move forward, while fully respecting the rules of the game from the power that be, rules that can change at any time, derailing the thread

So anyone presenting evidence that doesn't support a belief that the aliens have landed... is derailing the thread? I didn't realize this was a "only for people who believe the aliens have landed" thread.

Both of those statements are non sequiturs Mr Logic.

Not really.

I even allowed for the possibility that the whole thing is a psyop.

Judging from your responses, it seems to have worked.

Even the most enthusiastic posters in this thread arent saying its *definitely* aliens - no reasonable sceptic would say that based on available evidence.

Exactly my point, hence me adding information to the thread that suggests there are other explanations. If you two aren't capable of entertaining other possibilities without feeling like this is a personal affront to your thread, then you've got other issues to work out.

What is your position regarding your government, them wasting money pursuing and giving a platform to delusional high ranking military officials, posing as experts in front of badly faked low rez vhs videos, videos debunked 50 years ago?

Having fun is the main theme of this very relaxed thread.
Also: the Space Alien Lobby @ K Street needs more dark $$$

[EnochLight]

What is your position regarding your government, them wasting money pursuing and giving a platform to delusional high ranking military officials, posing as experts in front of badly faked low rez vhs videos, videos debunked 50 years ago?

Likely about the same as your position regarding your government.

Having fun is the main theme of this very relaxed thread.
Also: the Space Alien Lobby @ K Street needs more dark $$$

EXACTLY! Not sure why people get so bent out of shape. It's weird.

[Tiny Montgomery]

I love how someone live rent free in some finger-wagging person's mind.
Thank you for your service OP.

What does that even mean?

We move forward, while fully respecting the rules of the game from the power that be, rules that can change at any time, derailing the thread

So anyone presenting evidence that doesn't support a belief that the aliens have landed... is derailing the thread? I didn't realize this was a "only for people who believe the aliens have landed" thread.

Both of those statements are non sequiturs Mr Logic.

Not really.

I even allowed for the possibility that the whole thing is a psyop.

Judging from your responses, it seems to have worked.

Even the most enthusiastic posters in this thread arent saying its *definitely* aliens - no reasonable sceptic would say that based on available evidence.

Exactly my point, hence me adding information to the thread that suggests there are other explanations. If you two aren't capable of entertaining other possibilities without feeling like this is a personal affront to your thread, then you've got other issues to work out.

You keep saying we think the aliens have landed but no-one said that. As a reddit sceptic you will of course be familiar with the straw man?

Have no idea what you mean by "judging by my responses". I've consistently supported scepticism about this, see my replies to Orthodox & others on the first page or so .

The point I am trying to hammer home is that, whatever your view, there is an *external* phenomenon (as opposed to an internal, mental one) to be reckoned with, and the new paradigm moves beyond fantastical anecdotes & fuzzy polaroid pictures into capturing them and their movements on the most sophisticated tracking tech we have within fighter jets and warships. There are no alternative psychological explanations for those films unless you're positing that a human collective delusion can somehow spread to the output of a military radar and fighter jet cameras? No-one is saying they are aliens. But they are very much saying they believe them to be real phenomena and they do not believe them to be enemy craft or drones or secret special projects. (I personally still allow for the secret special projects hypothesis although this doesnt explain older encounters very well)

Of course there will be individuals with mental health issues who may fixate on UFOs or abductions as part of their psychosis, but the hypothesis that in general the phenomenon is one best explained by delusion or psychosis is clearly no longer viable or available to you once the US govt started releasing this info. I tried to establish this on page one. The debate now is "what is it" not "is there even an 'it'".

[EnochLight]

You keep saying we think the aliens have landed but no-one said that. As a reddit sceptic you will of course be familiar with the straw man?

You keep saying reddit, but I don't go there. I think I've popped in twice in the past 15 years? No clue. So if no one is saying that it's aliens, then I suppose we're all in agreement, right? Obviously there are unexplained phenomena - no one doubts that. I'm merely suggesting that unexplained phenomena DOES NOT EQUAL aliens.








Or magic sky daddies.

[orthodox]

What is your position regarding your government, them wasting money pursuing and giving a platform to delusional high ranking military officials, posing as experts in front of badly faked low rez vhs videos, videos debunked 50 years ago?

Having fun is the main theme of this very relaxed thread.
Also: the Space Alien Lobby @ K Street needs more dark $$$

What if it's a new Russian or Chinese tech? When it comes to National Security, money doesn't matter. Since the congress went crazy with the expenses, it would be stupid of the Alien Lobby to miss its share.

(Please don't treat this as a political post )

[Tiny Montgomery]

What is your position regarding your government, them wasting money pursuing and giving a platform to delusional high ranking military officials, posing as experts in front of badly faked low rez vhs videos, videos debunked 50 years ago?

Likely about the same as your position regarding your government.

Having fun is the main theme of this very relaxed thread.
Also: the Space Alien Lobby @ K Street needs more dark $$$

EXACTLY! Not sure why people get so bent out of shape. It's weird.

No-one is bent out of shape, you just got the response you deserve. We get it, you're a big boy who doesn't believe in God and is very logical

If you want to ridicule the debate at least be funny or interesting - doing "ooh so you think the big sky daddy made the universe" is a bit 2007 mate.

Personally I am very sceptical of some of the big hitters in the UFO community (again I said this on page one) - there all sorts of grifts and psyops going on - there are all sorts of angles you could take in this thread to discredit the current thinking just by looking at the history of the main players & their connections (Bigelow, Lear, Lazar, Elizondo & all those Coast to Coast guys etc) . I'd be all ears just like I was when listening to a 2 hour podcast casting aspersions on their motives and that whole network of people who promulgate UFO lore. There's a huge open goal there for anyone who wants to knock the new paradigm down - if you dropped a bombshell like that on the thread that would get my respect. As Orthodox pointed out early on there could be reasons why they want us to be a bit enchanted and/or scared by the footage for political reasons (military spending, spreading doubt and fear, making adversaries think you have something, whatever...).

Whatever my doubts and suspicions around those people that doesn't change the fact that the most powerful nation on earth says that something is going on. At the risk of repeating again what I said in the OP, that is what i'm interested in i.e why now and what is it really?

[bxbrkrz]

What is your position regarding your government, them wasting money pursuing and giving a platform to delusional high ranking military officials, posing as experts in front of badly faked low rez vhs videos, videos debunked 50 years ago?

Having fun is the main theme of this very relaxed thread.
Also: the Space Alien Lobby @ K Street needs more dark $$$

What if it's a new Russian or Chinese tech? When it comes to National Security, money doesn't matter. Since the congress went crazy with the expenses, it would be stupid of the Alien Lobby to miss its share.

(Please don't treat this as a political post )

As far as tech, it is unlikely, as most witnesses haven't seen any windshield wipers mounted on UFOs
Space Alien lobby = military industrial complex? Anything is an excuse for them, especially if fighting against a flying monster from another galaxy.

That say, the phenomenon existed prior to the 1947 Kenneth Arnold's encounter, so...

[EnochLight]

No-one is bent out of shape, you just got the response you deserve.

We get it, you're a big boy who doesn't believe in God and is very logical

I mean, I did wear the pants.

If you want to ridicule the debate at least be funny or interesting - doing "ooh so you think the big sky daddy made the universe" is a bit 2007 mate.

See mate, that's where you've lost the plot (never said that). Nowhere was I ridiculing the debate - I pointed out other possibilities. You thinking it's ridicule says more about your stance than anything. And yeah, I constantly say "magic sky daddy" to refer to a magic sky daddy, but that has nothing to do with it really. Well, aside from aliens. For the record, I'm not an atheist. I don't do religion.

Personally I am very sceptical of some of the big hitters in the UFO community

OK fair enough.

I made an effort in the OP to express my doubts and that this thread was about that..

And on that note, we absolutely are in 100% agreement!

[Tiny Montgomery]

You know what Ive been thinking* about this Enoch and Im going to concede a point to you and it is this.

I love a bit of spice in a debate and here I am giving you grief after you popped two spicy meatballs of scepticism in to the sauce. While I want to stay strong on my defence on the mental health of those who express an interest in the topic, I don't think you meant to be obtuse and I'm sorry if I gave you a hard time.



*drinking

[EnochLight]

You know what Ive been thinking* about this Enoch and Im going to concede a point to you and it is this.

I love a bit of spice in a debate and here I am giving you grief after you popped two spicy meatballs of scepticism in to the sauce. While I want to stay strong on my defence on the mental health of those who express an interest in the topic, I don't think you meant to be obtuse and I'm sorry if I gave you a hard time.

It's all good, mate!

*drinking

LMAO! Been there, man.

[Kuranes2021]

You keep saying we think the aliens have landed but no-one said that. As a reddit sceptic you will of course be familiar with the straw man?

You keep saying reddit, but I don't go there. I think I've popped in twice in the past 15 years? No clue. So if no one is saying that it's aliens, then I suppose we're all in agreement, right? Obviously there are unexplained phenomena - no one doubts that. I'm merely suggesting that unexplained phenomena DOES NOT EQUAL aliens.








Or magic sky daddies.

It's true, at this point no one can't say for sure what's really behind the phenomenon. Could be ET, could also be something interdimensional (see the works of Jaques Vallee or John Keel), or something entirely else (time travellers?). Possible is also a mix of everything of the aforementioned.

Only one thing is sure:

"There's something out there. Nobody knows what it is" (Carl Gustav Jung)

But maybe we'll know more, when (as rumored) Admiral Wilson testifies in one of the next public hearings.

That might make some jaws drop.