Discover?

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flightONE
Posts: 70
Joined: 18 Jan 2015

Post 22 Jan 2015

So.. what do y'all think about discover?

Cool?
Not Cool?
Haven't tried it?


feel free to expand....

As for my thoughts... I tried it... but  its only  audio so it doesn't work for me,  I am a MIDI guy...  If they ever make it so that you can get the .reason files where applicable  it may be cool... 

I will use it to find drum loops... but  they have to be clean...  right now many of them have synths and basslines, not cool!

I guess I'm not the target audience. At this point  I only plan on using Take to record  random stuff, export a wav and using Live's audio to midi... then back to reason...

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ethday
Posts: 18
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 22 Jan 2015

flightONE wrote: I guess I'm not the target audience.
That's pretty much how I feel.  As I've said in other places, the only thing that bothers me is that Discover (in Beta mind you) is taking top priority and top billing, which makes me nervous.  It's clear they're trying to capitalize on the Take and Figure users that are now in the PH family, but the implementation seems really idealistic and not very grounded.  Again, who owns the rights to the music?  Do they think people won't care in a sort of free love, hippie sort of way?

I worry that their hyper-focus on Discover will rebrand them in the public eye in a way that further defines them as a "fun, not serious" company.  They may be okay with that, but it's a bit sad for me.

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craven
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Post 22 Jan 2015

ethday wrote: I worry that their hyper-focus on Discover will rebrand them in the public eye in a way that further defines them as a "fun, not serious" company.  They may be okay with that, but it's a bit sad for me.
yes, especially since we are afraid that Reason won't get the updates it desperately needs (browser behavior, midi d'n'd, grouping, etc.) 
:ugeek:

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xDJDroidx
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Joined: 19 Jan 2015

Post 22 Jan 2015

I haven't used it. Still on R7.

But am I right in thinking this creates a single mixed down wav??

If that is the case I cannot see a use for it.

The whole thing doesn't make sense to me.

Lets say myself and another user both have Reason, Figure and Take, and decide to collaborate.

We both have ideas whilst on the go and record them with figure or take. Share them via discover......all's good.

Surely the natural progression would now be for both of us to then work on it in the studio with reason. This means it now makes sense to share the .reason file, but you can't do this with "discover", so we resort to dropbox or something similar, continue and finish the project. Next time would we bother with discover???

Ok, discover is in beta and maybe in the future you will be able to share .reason files, but this will then make your material unavailable for the app users (if you were doing a public collab).

I feel there are lots of things to be ironed out with this service, not to mention the copyright issues that have already been raised by others.

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ethday
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Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 22 Jan 2015

xDJDroidx wrote: But am I right in thinking this creates a single mixed down wav??
It's actually a compressed file as I recall, but I don't recall which type (they don't say).  I remember someone saying that they got into the code and it was an m4a?  Something like that.

Using the power of Discover, I can hear your scoff from here, so in defense of PH I'll remind you that Ernst himself said "It’s not a tool for professionals who are looking to fully integrate their DAW production work." The problem is, this defense isn't really a defense, it's a warning for professionals who might hope to get some substantial use out of the service.


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Arsenic
Posts: 183
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 22 Jan 2015

If this is what they want to do, then fine - but it should never take centre stage over everything else....like it seems to be doing.

Personally I have no interest in it whatsoever, so if it goes the way of the Dodo, I wouldn't care.

The main point is that they have much more important things that they should be concentrating on - Their main product could do with some work, but they spend all day pissing around with a bunch of loops - I fear for the direction that they are taking at the moment

FrankJaeger
Posts: 306
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 22 Jan 2015

The target audience seems to be 8th graders or those who can't be bothered to put in the time and effort it takes to learn how to produce quality tracks. I'm far from a professional and have a long ways to go, but I have spent countless hours studying and practicing to get better at my craft and I'm considerably better than I was when I started in 2010. It looks like it would be all to easy to hop on and take someone else's better sounding material, add one small thing and pass it off as yours when you go to first period and show all your tween friends how cool you are.
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Rook
Posts: 152
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 22 Jan 2015

What I've been wondering is...Is the original creator ever notified when their stuff is remixed/reuploaded by another user? Is there any way to track it like that, as it evolves from the original? If so, that could be really cool. I could see using it, if I had a random little riff/loop that I didn't plan on using for anything. Put it up there as a seed and see what grows from it...

But, hate to say it, I can't really see Props pulling off something quite that "advanced". I know, I'm a jerk. But, I assume it's all just floating around out there, with no way for users to keep track of it, except with maybe a play/download count (big whoop). Unless, of course, someone actually takes it upon themselves to send that original creator a link and say, "Hey, this is what I did with your loop". And is there even a built in messaging/comment system for that? So, even if someone wanted to contact the original creator, how would they? Unless they happened to know them personally on Twitter/Facebook/whatever. And if so, why wouldn't you just get it from them directly?

If all that's the case...I don't see the appeal in it at all. Just put your shit on freesound.org lol.

EDIT: I just looked around; I guess it does kind of track the original content used in an upload. Looks really basic, but that's encouraging at least. I know they're not done with it yet. At least it's not completely useless :P

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Namahs Amrak
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Location: Australia

Post 22 Jan 2015

I'm not sure why Discover has become their flagship all of a sudden. From the music forums I have been part of, there's not a whole lot of community collaboration happening.

And for people that know each other anyway, wouldn't a dropbox service and an email serve the same purpose - actually a greater purpose because there would be no restriction of a single stem of poor quality audio.

If, as they seem to also be pushing, there's a library of other people's work, isn't that what Soundcloud is about? There are often collaborations via Soundcloud. If you like a person's music, just ask them. Plenty of people are happy to have someone else work their song.

And probably the biggest WTF - why would anyone be attracted to Discover when, considering the points above, there is a restriction on jamming only with other Propellerhead product wonders. Its a big world and Props is a small part of it. We already have the facilities to share files quickly and for free, so why not work with people who might use ProTools, Cubase, Logic, whatever ?

My biggest confusion lies not in it's existence, but why it's the central promotional tool for Reason 8.1 and for the new website.

My Words are my ART

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Carnstein
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Post 22 Jan 2015

I feel like I am in the target demographic but it all just seems like a novelty to me. Assuming there is some way of listening to changes made to a file I wouldn't be opposed to putting up some Figure tracks for someone to jam over but then what? Are they hoping people will download Figure and/or Take to collab with people for fun and eventually invest in other Phead products? I don't understand their ultimate end goal here. Maybe they have plans for more apps (that would make me sad), who knows.

It seems too utopian that they might just be trying to push everyone to have fun creating music with each other.
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popp
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Post 22 Jan 2015

Carnstein wrote:Are they hoping people will download Figure and/or Take to collab with people for fun and eventually invest in other Phead products?
I'd say thats one of the main ideas...

Super Dabbler

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Jagwah
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Post 22 Jan 2015

Carnstein wrote:It seems too utopian that they might just be trying to push everyone to have fun creating music with each other.
Good point. I don't think we are at a point in evolution just yet where people want to give away their art for the sake of sharing, not music anyway. Maybe I'm wrong and Props are right or maybe I'm not understanding the point, or maybe it needs to grow on its own and become whatever it is going to become.

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Last Alternative
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Location: the lost desert

Post 22 Jan 2015

My music is sacred to me and I don't waste my time on a song I'm not gonna finish so the idea of popping out a riff or hook and giving away my baby for the world to have their way with it makes me feel violated just thinking about it LOL. But that's just me personally and I'm not against whoever wants to have at it. I write alone and I write with the band I'm in. I did a song for someone recently which is currently in the music forum. That's pretty much it.
https://lastalternative.bandcamp.com
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EddieG
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Joined: 18 Jan 2015

Post 22 Jan 2015

Maybe they know something about the future of the industry ..\ that we dont (yet)
and they wanna get in on the ground floor to make the biggest profits

Maybe these free site places will be a thing of the past in the not too distant future


I dont wanna share royalties with 7 million !
I WILL collaborate with some of you
BUT we will own the music, not the PHeads

stratcatfl - out
stratcatfl in the house !

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Some Desperate Glory
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Location: San Francisco

Post 22 Jan 2015

Last Alternative wrote:My music is sacred to me and I don't waste my time on a song I'm not gonna finish so the idea of popping out a riff or hook and giving away my baby for the world to have their way with it makes me feel violated just thinking about it LOL. But that's just me personally and I'm not against whoever wants to have at it. I write alone and I write with the band I'm in. I did a song for someone recently which is currently in the music forum. That's pretty much it.
That's pretty much how I feel.  I co-write most of my songs now with Raymond but he totally gets my musical style and thought processes so it works great.  Having random people grab a phrase or beat or whatever.  Who's work is that now?  Yours?  Theirs?  My music is precious to me to, and I derive a lot of personal satisfaction from it.  I'm not sure I would feel deeply connected to a piece that rapstarr32 and miz_marple added drums and pads and vocals too.

If I were not really into songwriting it could be fun for a while until I got bored and went back to watching TV.  I guess that's the real target audience.
Still nostalgic about the old days, writing songs with my Amiga 500, Korg M1, and Ensoniq ASR-10 sampler.

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Namahs Amrak
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Location: Australia

Post 22 Jan 2015

Jagwah wrote: I don't think we are at a point in evolution just yet where people want to give away their art for the sake of sharing, not music anyway.
I'm a part of two industry forums, and the general consensus among professional, working musicians is that free music devalues the craft and the industry will suffer in the long term. They will even extend that to performing for free. I don't entirely agree with that outlook 100% but it does serve as something to consider, if we want future generations of artists to make a living out of music.
My Words are my ART

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Some Desperate Glory
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Location: San Francisco

Post 22 Jan 2015

Namahs Amrak wrote:
I'm a part of two industry forums, and the general consensus among professional, working musicians is that free music devalues the craft and the industry will suffer in the long term. They will even extend that to performing for free. I don't entirely agree with that outlook 100% but it does serve as something to consider, if we want future generations of artists to make a living out of music.
In the modern world it seems most everything is getting devalued.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdEuII9cv-U
Still nostalgic about the old days, writing songs with my Amiga 500, Korg M1, and Ensoniq ASR-10 sampler.

VOLCANIC
Posts: 28
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 22 Jan 2015

Last Alternative wrote:My music is sacred to me and I don't waste my time on a song I'm not gonna finish so the idea of popping out a riff or hook and giving away my baby for the world to have their way with it makes me feel violated just thinking about it LOL. But that's just me personally and I'm not against whoever wants to have at it. I write alone and I write with the band I'm in. I did a song for someone recently which is currently in the music forum. That's pretty much it.
Spot on 100% music is sacred and if I will make it big then let me make it big alone with my own song not dragging someone alomg with me with my hard work

Yes if I am big already I can bring someone up or visa-versa and that's what the PRO's do to boost the new upcoming artist. For now RN8 and discover are not for me but I am not agaist a colabo please hear me right
Volcanic Music

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Gorilla Texas
Posts: 157
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 22 Jan 2015

Last Alternative wrote:My music is sacred to me and I don't waste my time on a song I'm not gonna finish so the idea of popping out a riff or hook and giving away my baby for the world to have their way with it makes me feel violated just thinking about it LOL. But that's just me personally and I'm not against whoever wants to have at it. I write alone and I write with the band I'm in. I did a song for someone recently which is currently in the music forum. That's pretty much it.
Some Desperate Glory wrote:
That's pretty much how I feel.  I co-write most of my songs now with Raymond but he totally gets my musical style and thought processes so it works great.  Having random people grab a phrase or beat or whatever.  Who's work is that now?  Yours?  Theirs?  My music is precious to me to, and I derive a lot of personal satisfaction from it.  I'm not sure I would feel deeply connected to a piece that rapstarr32 and miz_marple added drums and pads and vocals too.

If I were not really into songwriting it could be fun for a while until I got bored and went back to watching TV.  I guess that's the real target audience.
Agreed,that's why I'm guaranteeing it's failure. Who's gonna just give away their hard work for free and not know if someone is getting paid for their work. I give away free remixes but don't let people download just the beat for that same reason.  

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Faastwalker
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Location: NSW, Australia

Post 22 Jan 2015

I'm on Reason 7 so that's me excluded.

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Carnstein
Posts: 28
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 23 Jan 2015

Last Alternative wrote:My music is sacred to me and I don't waste my time on a song I'm not gonna finish so the idea of popping out a riff or hook and giving away my baby for the world to have their way with it makes me feel violated just thinking about it LOL. But that's just me personally and I'm not against whoever wants to have at it. I write alone and I write with the band I'm in. I did a song for someone recently which is currently in the music forum. That's pretty much it.
Some Desperate Glory wrote:
That's pretty much how I feel.  I co-write most of my songs now with Raymond but he totally gets my musical style and thought processes so it works great.  Having random people grab a phrase or beat or whatever.  Who's work is that now?  Yours?  Theirs?  My music is precious to me to, and I derive a lot of personal satisfaction from it.  I'm not sure I would feel deeply connected to a piece that rapstarr32 and miz_marple added drums and pads and vocals too.

If I were not really into songwriting it could be fun for a while until I got bored and went back to watching TV.  I guess that's the real target audience.
I think it is troubling for people that all of a sudden their work becomes everyone else's (or at least it becomes kind of ambiguous). That will likely be the reason (haha) that users abstain.

But your comment about collaborating with someone who gets you makes me wonder if that is what they are after. Maybe they think people will reach out to those that do something cool with their beats and start collaborating on a more serious level. But how often is that going to happen? In any case I just can't see the business sense behind it.
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jappe
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Post 23 Jan 2015

I like the idea about Reason used in a collaboration community; in fact I even had some feature request (or mentioned it in some post...don't remember) in PUF about it years ago(cannot provide link...)
But I see Discover not as a way to make music through collaboration, but as the new forum, of sound, to make musicians get in touch with each other without words.

I would have liked them to make it possible to share reason files.
File size would be a restriction, but problems could be avoided by having a Discover-mode in Reason, which would set a project size cap. Not at all perfect, but really better than this Discover 0.1.

About large wave files...I wonder if there's a way to make incremental updates in a compressed way; so that only new content is uploaded. I mean, if you send a vocal track, then do some changes on some places - would there be a smart way to calculate the (spectral?) audio diff and resend only the diff? Perhaps Prop's should cooperate with Celemony about this:-)



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Karim
Competition Winner
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Location: Italy

Post 23 Jan 2015


 
Having said that boat in which they grappled has the only aim of "€ $ $ PROFIT $ $ €".
The crisis in Europe is pressing and "that" company has ambitions beyond Marck Zuckerberg.
 
Anyway ...

how many owners of iphone are out there? 
and
how many of them are musicians?
How many of them own reason 8.1? (Not all have made the 'upgrade).
How many of them are willing to share / collaborate with other musicians who must have an iphone, and always reason 8.1 ecc.ecc ?.
 
Even Apple has completely failed long ago with "ping", their social network tied to itunes. lasted what? 3 months?
and "buzz" of google?
obviously are examples but IMO the change of course is too extreme  .

PH are  greatest coders creators of sequencer / plugins but it is difficult to think it will become the NEW "FACEBOOK / SOUNDCLOUD" of musicians.

I must admit. Rebirth, Reason, Recycle... each products created by them was simply revolutionary.
but I think they're going to take a massive blunder.
 
if I'm wrong I bow down humbly in front of their genius, but in the meantime ...

 
Cheers 


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Jagwah
Posts: 2571
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 23 Jan 2015

Finally found a video of Props at Namm 2015. Short and to the point. Ironically the highlight of the conversation is how a 4 year old girl is enjoying Figure.

I don't know about you guys but I don't buy in to the whole 'representative / marketer telling us how fantastic everything is' concept, matter of fact I can't stand it.

Anyway, take a look - I been searching for something like this every day and this is the first one I found.



kitekrazy
Posts: 1046
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

Post 24 Jan 2015

T-O-T-A-L  W-A-S-T-E.  You think they could have done something else with their time. Stuff like this has already been going on.

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