Petition to ask Reason developers to start using their DAW.

[Hoboys]

If only reason employees used their own software, the glaring DAW deficits would be obvious to them. Please Reason Studios, start using your own software. It will do a world of good for you and us, the users. Thank you!

Signed
/the bad Ed

[Noise]

What Does Dogfooding Mean?
The term "dogfooding" is an IT slang for the use of one's own products. In some uses, it implies that developers or companies are using their own products to work out bugs, as in beta testing. One benefit of dogfooding is that it shows that a company is confident about its products.

Techopedia Explains Dogfooding
The initial use of the term dogfooding is often traced back to Microsoft manager Paul Maritz, who, in 1988, used it to challenge Microsoft's internal employees to use the company's products.

For IT professionals, the phrase "eating your own dog food" means slogging through operations using internal products or looking at the source code. The other idea associated with dogfooding is that it offers developers a chance to solve product-related problems before releasing the product to consumers.

[djsmex]

Lets start with how many in Reason Studios currently use Reason as their DAW of choice, then how many use reason rack pluggin on other DAWs. Then how many use DAWs of any nature.
We should not assume anything but that said, the proof is in the pudding, so lets see if RS are happy to provide us with usage stats of staff.
Personally I believe there are benefits in using multiple DAWs as a way to find pros/cons of different features and often many feature requests are based upon features found in other DAWs and not new features not available in other DAWs.

[avasopht]

If only reason employees used their own software, the glaring DAW deficits would be obvious to them. Please Reason Studios, start using your own software. It will do a world of good for you and us, the users. Thank you!

Signed
/the bad Ed

How so?

Was Reason never good?

If it was, then why then would it no longer be good? I can do much more than I could in Reason just 5 years ago.

I can also make great music with just Reason alone (even without VSTs). Hit songs have been made in Reason.

That's not to say there are no flaws or deficits. But it would be much more helpful if you could elaborate more on what you mean rather than being overly vague.

[Jagwah]

Yeah!

[ekss]

100% Reason here.

[Quarmat]

100% Reason here as well since 2001.
Sequencer could be better, but it works, it's not broken, and as someone on this forum writes in his/her signature: "If you cant make a banger with redrum, subtractor and malstrom, then you can't make a banger at all". One coukld say the same for the sequencer. Big hits has been made with outdated and cheap hardware, many times in the past. The pluses of Reason overshadow the minuses by a long measure.

But, tbh, I can imagine that someone coming from another DAW could find Reason's sequencer different/clumsy/counterintuitive, i dunno. But if, like me, you are with Reason since long time you can't argue that Reason has never been so good and powerful.

[gullum]

Please Reason Studios, start using your own software. It will do a world of good for you and us, the users.

would that not make them the users?

[Hoboys]

100% Reason here.

Was under the impression you developed Rack Extension, not the DAW.

[DaveyG]

I think it's more important for them to use other DAWs so they can understand how far behind some aspects of Reason have fallen. The best products get better by selectively stealing good ideas from their rivals.

[dakta]

It's an odd forum, whilst I expect a community in the interest of balance and fairness to openly criticise its own where it falls short, its always surprised me the sheer amount of negativity about the product here

maybe i got lucky - apart from a bit of gui glitchy and a slow search now and then i've never had anything functionally go wrong, i've never had a crash, and maybe there are workflow improvements that can be made but I don't seem to be missing them that much as I seem to be able to do everything I set out to do without feeling held back. All of the above may be indicative of me not using it to its full, which I certainly don't but this software has really grown since the humble beginnings and one thing it's always been quite clear about in my perspective is it does things its own way which was and is the charm - I always liked the idea of reason as a hardware emulator I don't think it as a third party DAW emulator would have the same sheen

Updates are always nice but if Props/RS were to stop development today... as long as the software can be made to run ...I'd easily get pretty much my lifetime of hobbyist composing out of it.

[Hoboys]

I had to delete my initial response. I don't see anything negative about politely asking the developers to start using their DAW. Perhaps it's the language barrier. I beg pardon if I caused offense. English is my third language. What would be a more polite way of saying this?

[avasopht]

I think it's more important for them to use other DAWs so they can understand how far behind some aspects of Reason have fallen. The best products get better by selectively stealing good ideas from their rivals.

Nintendo has remained the market-leading innovator by doing the exact opposite of what you suggest.

Based in the separatist tiny town of Kyoto (yes, the same Kyoto that the original Pokémon Red and Blue were based in), they are shut off from not only the rest of the world but the rest of Japan.

Not to say it's not worth checking out the competition. It is. It's just not as clear cut as you say.

[motuscott]

I'd be satisfied if they just revealed their LSAT scores.

[Jagwah]

Please Reason Studios, start using your own software. It will do a world of good for you and us, the users.

would that not make them the users?

[WOO]

I had to delete my initial response. I don't see anything negative about politely asking the developers to start using their DAW. Perhaps it's the language barrier. I beg pardon if I caused offense. English is my third language. What would be a more polite way of saying this?

I for one saw nothing offensive about your post. And like others have said I think it is helpful for the development team to explore other daws and take bits and pieces from them to integrate into reason. I'm an exclusive user of reason since ver 4 with a few forays into other daws, but I always came back to reason. With that being said I'm almost certain that they know, how far behind they are in regards to other daws and have certainly heard that repeatedly over the years by members of this and other forums but for whatever reason, seem to be reluctant to make much needed improvements on the sequencer side of things. I remember making a comment on youtube a few years ago that I saw reason coming out with a completely updated reason in time for their 20th anniversary. One that, they would finally incorporate the best features found in other daws and then add to that some of their own special sauce to the mix and the world would have a new daw to beat. It would also take a serious bite of the market share from the likes of protools, live, logic and cubase once word got out. Is that incoming I hear

[pushedbutton]

I don't think it's the developers job to generate their own feedback, this results in an echo chamber. I would also mean that the software they eventually develop would be really good for developers. You may find some great developers who are also great musicians but you'll find many more great developers and great musicians who can hopefully develop an effective method of sharing and implementing their ideas. Just as you wouldn't expect a pit mechanic to be able to compete on the track with a racing driver, you wouldn't expect your oil change to be exclusively carried out by a champion racing drivers.
It's incredibly difficult to step back from your own creation and be constructively critical of it. Critical maybe, but constructive criticism is more easily achieved by someone who's able to see the big picture without worrying about the time you're poured into it and the technical aspects that present limitations.

[Popey]

I always assumed they did use their own daw when they create music. I know there was a post recently about the music reason staff create so we know they do create music for their own enjoyment.

They obviously test their products in a lot of different daws and advertise using others as it is part of the advertising of rrp but I still see Ryan (as an example) using Reason and on the live streams I am pretty sure they have mostly used reason and not live or cubase for example.

Just an assumption of course but I would be surprised if they do not use reason when creating their own music (as opposed to when developing or working on company time)

[challism]

100% Reason here.

Was under the impression you developed Rack Extension, not the DAW.

He is mentioned/credited in the "about" notes of Reason for graphics. I'm not entirely sure what that means or what the credits are for.

[QVprod]

Could it be simply design philosophy? Some features perhaps just fit within that design or aren’t priority. I use other “more fully featured” software aside from Reason and yet still come back to it.

I’d say they’ve shown they use the software and know it’s flaws by adding VST support and then also making it a VST. That proves they’re aware of where they stand. Those are solutions to a “missing feature” problem. Some just don’t agree with the solutions they chose.

Problem is, a deal breaker for some is no big deal to others. How do you make everybody happy?

[NMHindman]

It's an odd forum, whilst I expect a community in the interest of balance and fairness to openly criticise its own where it falls short, its always surprised me the sheer amount of negativity about the product here

I have to agree. Constructive criticism is often derailed by sheer negativity, which seems to be a societal trait these days. Nobody forced us to buy or use the product.

[dakta]

I was reading another thread where the bulk of the complaint was a graphical artifact, the artifact whilst existent was merely a few wrong pixels that squared off a yellow angle and from what I could see had absolutely no functional impact on anything really. I had to really stare at the screenshot to see what was wrong and even when I found it I had to say 'is this complaint for real?'.

Reason has never ever been a simple program, coding is complex and the math done in real-time must be tremendous. As we've demanded new features and the complexity increases exponentially so does the risk that changing things will change something else, no matter how well you manage things getting the product right pretty much involves into an endless game of whack a mole. Most operating system developers have experienced this as a dramatic case in point.

I am not a defacto fanboy, crashes or features that don't work and such things that i do occasionally read about are fairly valid complaints but looking at the recent update these are being addressed so that's something. However ultimately I like reason for what it is and I wrote the post before this one because this forum really does carry an anti-reason atmosphere as an outsider looking in, this thread refers to glaring defecits in the editor, whilst I'm sure things have moved on a bit over the years its something people have used with success making good work for years. Whilst I'm not saying the negative opinions are wrong given the sheer amount of stuff reason can do well the negativity balance is astonishing and to a developer reading this on one of not the largest enthusiast forum dedicated to their product it must be a proper put off

[Jagwah]

It's an odd forum, whilst I expect a community in the interest of balance and fairness to openly criticise its own where it falls short, its always surprised me the sheer amount of negativity about the product here

I have to agree. Constructive criticism is often derailed by sheer negativity, which seems to be a societal trait these days. Nobody forced us to buy or use the product.

Would you believe the negative people love and adore the product? It is the many years of ongoing disappointment about it that drives that negativity.

[plaamook]

I think they just need to dip in here now and again.
All together we use reason a lot and other daws and point out the comparisons.
There are whole wings and threads dedicated to dreaming up better versions of reason coming from different angles.
What else could you want from an ideas generator? It’s perfect.
If a bit negative...

[kitekrazy]

I don't think the is exclusive to just these developers. I could make the same claim when it comes to all areas in the software industry. Look at something like Windows 8. There are long standing video games that regress with each release. Developers develop and don't use their products because they are too busy developing the next release. Some software has a front line of beta testers before it is released to more beta testers. I would think it's much easier for a tester to point things out.
Changes are not always they easy. It could be having to have the code start from scratch. When a company takes over another company's software the updates become few if there is no existing coders.