Freezing

Have any feature requests? No promise they'll get to Reason Studios, but you can still discuss them here.
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mcatalao
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Post 17 Mar 2022

Tweak wrote:
17 Mar 2022
Device freeze for audio already exists, this should be complemented seamlessly with CV freeze.
Device freeze implies the devices are completely disabled and use no cpu. This is not true for instruments, and not complete for effects. Lots of devices keep consuming CPU even when there's no midi interaction. The only way you're sure a device doesn't eat cpu/dsp is removing it.

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Billy+
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Post 17 Mar 2022

Given how much of an improvement Apple Silicon is having on the device count that is usable within a native DAW it seems that this is going to be nothing more than a Windows issue so although I would have liked a "freeze" feature a few years ago now all I want is a stable optimised silicon native build of Reason.

Checkout this thread:- viewtopic.php?f=12&t=7527326

Over 1000 plugin running in real time on an entry level 8gb Mac mini costing less than £1000, I don't see myself ever going above any of the limits, it's unfortunate that we are still waiting for developers to catch up but ultimately it's happening.

My only concern is the amount of storage required to cope with Reason HiRes especially given that the option to locate off the main storage isn't available.

Tweak
Posts: 111
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 18 Mar 2022

mcatalao wrote:
17 Mar 2022
Tweak wrote:
17 Mar 2022
Device freeze for audio already exists, this should be complemented seamlessly with CV freeze.
Device freeze implies the devices are completely disabled and use no cpu. This is not true for instruments, and not complete for effects. Lots of devices keep consuming CPU even when there's no midi interaction. The only way you're sure a device doesn't eat cpu/dsp is removing it.
Yeah, you're absolutely right, and I stand corrected - what we have now is just a bounce in place, not a real freeze function. I'd be happy if the device was disabled completely so it didn't consume CPU anymore, and just have audio and automation tracks (for any incoming/outgoing CVs). Certainly we should get to a situation where we don't need to actually remove devices to allow their CPU usage to be reclaimed, disabling them would be adequate.

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mcatalao
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Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 21 Mar 2022

Billy+ wrote:
17 Mar 2022

Over 1000 plugin running in real time on an entry level 8gb Mac mini costing less than £1000, I don't see myself ever going above any of the limits, it's unfortunate that we are still waiting for developers to catch up but ultimately it's happening.
I'd look at these with a grain of salt.

From what I've seen in the video, they're testing this with stock plugs, which are normally quite low CPU intensive.
I've tested my machine in similar conditions sometime ago, and I could get 400+ stereo tracks with the full reason strip in my 7 years old I7.
And pretty similar results in Cubase with the stock plugins. So from there to today both Mac's , Intel and AMD's evolved by a lot. Plus, do not forget the latest specialized improvements in the Mac M1, are now also in new Intel's and on their way to AMD's too, despite the architecture being different. I'm not saying M1 doesn't have an edge and I truly believe the comeback to an ARM architecture will be beneficial to Macs, but I wouldn't expect the difference to be as much as they are trying to show here, at least for a long time.

Also, the aforementioned logic doesn't scale directly. A compressor, eq, and reverb, are completely different plugins from, for example, a complex synth. And you can get pretty dammed heavy synths and instrument emulation plugins that will bring a new CPU down quite easily. And let's not forget, Re performance is great on RS stuff but is a little off on other brand's stuff. So, IMHO... Considering people that are still using old machines, and even folks that bought a PC or a Mac a couple of years ago... Freeze is still a useful functionality. IMHO.

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mcatalao
Posts: 1620
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Post 21 Mar 2022

Tweak wrote:
18 Mar 2022
(...) Certainly we should get to a situation where we don't need to actually remove devices to allow their CPU usage to be reclaimed, disabling them would be adequate.
YEah, but we need a complete freeze function, because Bounce in Place is messy as heck. You bounce in place, reason creates an additional track and leaves the older muted. I've created a workflow where I "paint" those tracks dark gray and pull them down in the sequencer, but it's still freaking messy!

Usually what i do, is i separate my production processes. I separate Sequencing and everything related (writing, recording audio, etc), from mixing, from mastering. This way all the process is under 50/60% dsp and the projects run safe and stable.

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Billy+
Posts: 3846
Joined: 09 Dec 2016

Post 21 Mar 2022

mcatalao wrote:
21 Mar 2022
Billy+ wrote:
17 Mar 2022

Over 1000 plugin running in real time on an entry level 8gb Mac mini costing less than £1000, I don't see myself ever going above any of the limits, it's unfortunate that we are still waiting for developers to catch up but ultimately it's happening.
I'd look at these with a grain of salt.
Agreed

and I've also considered that Apple makes Logic so is probably far more native and compatible with the Silicon hardware than many other developers are going to achieve without some serious reverse engineering.

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mcatalao
Posts: 1620
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 22 Mar 2022

Billy+ wrote:
21 Mar 2022
Agreed

and I've also considered that Apple makes Logic so is probably far more native and compatible with the Silicon hardware than many other developers are going to achieve without some serious reverse engineering.
Yep. Another form of that "edge" they can have, being the owners of the hardware and the software. And they have a single architecture, and very few processor models, so if you can afford the extra money and like logic audio... It turns into a very good option. That's something they have in the iPhone against android phones, and turning into another cpu architecture strengthens this argument, imho. But that mostly applies to their stuff, unless they create a specific SDK for the processor in regards to plugins and how they access specialized CPU features.

Anyway, recognize that the mini seems an incredible value, I just think the mini format is too limiting, and that would force me to go for a Mac Pro or buy a new audio card. There's nothing stabler than internal audio cards (lightpipe) and all my studio is built around my Pc and a RME Raydat. I don't think you can put a PCIe raydat in a mac mini. Plus, everything you need to expand that little box will increase its price. Need more ram? Want more internal storage? Take it to an Apple Genious and spit your money out or else get your warranty voided and risk turning that into a beautiful white rock if something goes wrong!!! :)

PS.: I'm still old guard. I prefer to build (and i both can and know how to) my studio pc's. I understand the value of a mac, and the ease of use for people who make that option.

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Billy+
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Post 22 Mar 2022

I got over building PC many year ago and switched to Apple, but my first job in IT was building pc's to order something that I enjoyed in my 20's and did frequently for myself but I really don't feel starting again.

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mcatalao
Posts: 1620
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 22 Mar 2022

Billy+ wrote:
22 Mar 2022
I got over building PC many year ago and switched to Apple, but my first job in IT was building pc's to order something that I enjoyed in my 20's and did frequently for myself but I really don't feel starting again.
To each his own, I respect that. :) I like it but i only do it twice on each 7-8 years... :)

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Billy+
Posts: 3846
Joined: 09 Dec 2016

Post 22 Mar 2022

mcatalao wrote:
22 Mar 2022
Billy+ wrote:
22 Mar 2022
I got over building PC many year ago and switched to Apple, but my first job in IT was building pc's to order something that I enjoyed in my 20's and did frequently for myself but I really don't feel starting again.
To each his own, I respect that. :) I like it but i only do it twice on each 7-8 years... :)
I could probably be ok with that if needs must.

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