"I use Reason" reaction

This forum is for discussing Reason. Questions, answers, ideas, and opinions... all apply.
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challism
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20 Jan 2022

SuperStellartones wrote:
20 Jan 2022
challism wrote:
19 Jan 2022

You created an account on this forum and posted your first post just to say you don't want to go back to Reason. While I appreciate you opinion, I wonder why you would waste your time on a Reason forum if you aren't interested in using the software.

And if I were to start using another DAW, I think Bigwig would be my choice.
I still love the idea of Reason, and I use RRP. I meant that I won't be going back to the Reason DAW/sequencer. And I have high hopes that someday the DAW as a whole will improve, thus I'm interested in this forum.
OK, that make sense and I understand where you are coming from. I really hope RS doesn't give up the ship and [continue? to] improve the DAW. I really can't stand using other DAWs, so I'm not interested in using the RRP at all (I only ever use other DAWs and the RRP when beta testing). That being said, I can't believe I'm actually shopping around, looking at other DAWs. Cakewalk has the best price (free) but Bitwig looks like the one I would actually go to, if RS doesn't get their shit together. Sad times for RS fans. I wish they would focus 100% on the DAW for the next couple of years, instead of developing new REs/devices.
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SuperStellartones
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20 Jan 2022

challism wrote:
20 Jan 2022

I really can't stand using other DAWs, so I'm not interested in using the RRP at all (I only ever use other DAWs and the RRP when beta testing). That being said, I can't believe I'm actually shopping around, looking at other DAWs. Cakewalk has the best price (free) but Bitwig looks like the one I would actually go to, if RS doesn't get their shit together.
I was absolutely in the same boat as you. I was really uninterested in learning something new and nothing seemed to grab my attention like Reason had. Reason really was my first love... I almost felt disloyal looking at other DAWs.

But I had hit so many walls working with Reason (my biggest complaints were around the lack of track grouping, freezing... basic quality of life organizational functions that so many other DAWs offer) that I felt, if I was going to take my productions to the next level, I had no choice but to give another DAW a chance. I tried Live, StudioOne and Bitwig... but Bitwig kept bringing me back.

Anyway, I'm not trying to sell anyone on any particular DAW. But making the leap out of my comfort zone from using Reason to something else has been 100% worth it. It's like I've moved from using a horse-and-buggy to driving a Tesla.

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moofi
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20 Jan 2022

:-D Just saying, like people tend to confuse both.
orthodox wrote:
18 Jan 2022
moofi wrote:
18 Jan 2022
That´s actually MPD (multi personality disorder), not schizo ;-)
MPD, DID, BPD, "split" are clinical cases. I meant a mild one, that anyone can afford :-)

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moofi
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20 Jan 2022

Just out of curiosity, how did workflow improvements like grouping and freeze take your productions to a new level?
Do the listeners notice these improvements in the final musical outcome?
SuperStellartones wrote:
20 Jan 2022
[...]
But I had hit so many walls working with Reason (my biggest complaints were around the lack of track grouping, freezing... basic quality of life organizational functions that so many other DAWs offer) that I felt, if I was going to take my productions to the next level, I had no choice but to give another DAW a chance. [...]

avasopht
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20 Jan 2022

moofi wrote:
20 Jan 2022
Just out of curiosity, how did workflow improvements like grouping and freeze take your productions to a new level?
Do the listeners notice these improvements in the final musical outcome?
SuperStellartones wrote:
20 Jan 2022
[...]
But I had hit so many walls working with Reason (my biggest complaints were around the lack of track grouping, freezing... basic quality of life organizational functions that so many other DAWs offer) that I felt, if I was going to take my productions to the next level, I had no choice but to give another DAW a chance. [...]
Workflow.

Technically speaking you could render a track one channel at a time and manually mix it with what has already been bounced.

Workflow matters

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moofi
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20 Jan 2022

Yes, I know, workflow. Asking not about workflow in general helping to get things done. Asking about the new production level along any possible improvement in sound one could here in the final outcome. Like things not done before because of a lack in workflow.
avasopht wrote:
20 Jan 2022
moofi wrote:
20 Jan 2022
Just out of curiosity, how did workflow improvements like grouping and freeze take your productions to a new level?
Do the listeners notice these improvements in the final musical outcome?

Workflow.

Technically speaking you could render a track one channel at a time and manually mix it with what has already been bounced.

Workflow matters

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SuperStellartones
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20 Jan 2022

moofi wrote:
20 Jan 2022
Yes, I know, workflow. Asking not about workflow in general helping to get things done. Asking about the new production level along any possible improvement in sound one could here in the final outcome. Like things not done before because of a lack in workflow.
I don't know if there are necessarily tangible differences in the quality of my work -- though with each project I should be getting a little better at the craft of music making, right? ;)

The big difference is quantity, output -- I can finish full songs quicker, easier and with less frustration.

In Reason, for me, while it's always easy and fun to get an 8-bar loop going with a half dozen tracks, building that out to 20+ tracks with a full arrangement, doing cut-downs (I write some stuff for TV/film), mastering in Reason, etc, etc -- it becomes nightmarish, virtually unusable.

Part of the problem is there's no way to freeze tracks, and very quickly, piling-up VST instruments will kill Reason. Another problem is the Rack -- it's hard to navigate when you start to get lots of tracks. And the sequencer becomes unruly too -- there's is no way to group tracks. It's a constant process of bouncing, opening a new project, pulling the stems into the new project, yada, yada. Why would anyone want to work this way if there's something better?

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EnochLight
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20 Jan 2022

So, let's recap - we have Toro y Moi (Grammy nominated BTW), Drake, and other professionals who use Reason, yet there's still this weird perception that it's not popular or fashionable?

That's just... weird.

For the record, RS (then Propellerhead) have been publicizing professional artists using Reason for a very long, long time (others in my actual wheelhouse are Bon from Nitzer Ebb, as well as Beastie Boys). I don't think any amount of endorsements or mentions will ever stop the Internet from thinking it's just not good enough, though.
SuperStellartones wrote:
20 Jan 2022
Anyway, I'm not trying to sell anyone on any particular DAW. But making the leap out of my comfort zone from using Reason to something else has been 100% worth it. It's like I've moved from using a horse-and-buggy to driving a Tesla.
LMAO!!! Sure.

I went with Ableton Live 11 Suite myself. Bitwig is just the redheaded stepchild of ex-Ableton devs. :lol: jk

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Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

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crimsonwarlock
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20 Jan 2022

Perception is everything. Many hit records were made with FL Studio, but to me, it still looks like a toy program :lol:

I've been a Reaper user for over a decade, and it can surely do a lot that Reason can't. Most other DAWs can do basically (more or less) the same things as Reaper. Yet, Reason is now my main DAW because it can do things that no other DAW, including Reaper, can do. Suffice to say, it has to do with cables. So to me, Reason sits in this niche, where just stacking instruments and FX onto mixer channels isn't enough.
-------
Analog tape ⇒ ESQ1 sequencer board ⇒ Atari/Steinberg Pro24 ⇒ Atari/Cubase ⇒ Cakewalk Sonar ⇒ Orion Pro/Platinum ⇒ Reaper ⇒ Reason DAW.

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EnochLight
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20 Jan 2022

Trust me, I didn't want to have to go with Ableton Live 11 Suite - it's just that Reason 12 is unusable for me in its current state. And after 20+ years in Reason, I just wanted to mix things up and try something new. Live also integrates much better with my MPC Live II and Akai Force, so it was a no-brainer.
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

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SuperStellartones
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20 Jan 2022

EnochLight wrote:
20 Jan 2022
Trust me, I didn't want to have to go with Ableton Live 11 Suite - it's just that Reason 12 is unusable for me in its current state. And after 20+ years in Reason, I just wanted to mix things up and try something new. Live also integrates much better with my MPC Live II and Akai Force, so it was a no-brainer.
I'm with you. I'd happily go back to using Reason as my main DAW again if it just improved in a few key areas. It's got nothing to do with perception for me... it's simply not the best tool for maximizing my music production efforts.

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Billy+
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20 Jan 2022

EnochLight wrote:
20 Jan 2022
Trust me, I didn't want to have to go with Ableton Live 11 Suite - it's just that Reason 12 is unusable for me in its current state. And after 20+ years in Reason, I just wanted to mix things up and try something new. Live also integrates much better with my MPC Live II and Akai Force, so it was a no-brainer.
I've been getting on ok with the lite version of Live 11 and although it's not my first choice it's definitely growing on me especially after our conversation about the Force and with Reason 12 not being a viable option for the moment, it's an unfortunate fact but I'm seriously considering buying it an leaving Reason as a plugin that for the most part I won't be expanding.

I'm still holding out that the main DAW will start seeing worth while improvements but for the first time I've not upgraded and haven't purchased a single device possibly since 20/21 sales as I just don't see the point in expanding something that is stubbornly ignoring the demand for improvements in favour of becoming a plugin.

It would be nice to see a roadmap that acknowledges the standalone product as it's easy to understand the reluctance to add to much while going through the code changes for hidpi but it's not entirely worth the wait considering the price the state plus all the delays.

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EnochLight
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20 Jan 2022

Billy+ wrote:
20 Jan 2022
It would be nice to see a roadmap that acknowledges the standalone product as it's easy to understand the reluctance to add to much while going through the code changes for hidpi but it's not entirely worth the wait considering the price the state plus all the delays.
Their last roadmap update did acknowledge the standalone DAW portion of Reason (both VST3 support and M1 support are coming by May 2022). That said, it doesn't do me a world of good with Reason in its current state I'm afraid.
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

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moneykube
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20 Jan 2022

EnochLight wrote:
20 Jan 2022
Billy+ wrote:
20 Jan 2022
It would be nice to see a roadmap that acknowledges the standalone product as it's easy to understand the reluctance to add to much while going through the code changes for hidpi but it's not entirely worth the wait considering the price the state plus all the delays.
Their last roadmap update did acknowledge the standalone DAW portion of Reason (both VST3 support and M1 support are coming by May 2022). That said, it doesn't do me a world of good with Reason in its current state I'm afraid.
MAY 2022 :shock: That is crazy for all those that bought 12 outright when it came out... How the subscribers are not really complaining confuses me... I guess most did not have many of the devices so they are happy in that rabbit hole.
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moneykube
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20 Jan 2022

EnochLight wrote:
20 Jan 2022
Trust me, I didn't want to have to go with Ableton Live 11 Suite - it's just that Reason 12 is unusable for me in its current state. And after 20+ years in Reason, I just wanted to mix things up and try something new. Live also integrates much better with my MPC Live II and Akai Force, so it was a no-brainer.
I went with 10 suite before 11 came out... More then enough to explore there... Barely touched the surface so far... Reason 11 suite suits my needs 100 percent at this time with the many racks that it came with, the racks I bought and my many VST plugs... Will use Live if I have time to learn it properly... and Logic for more lengthy projects... but I still find logic illogical the way it is set up compared to Reason... so it is not one I use often... only when needed
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Billy+
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20 Jan 2022

EnochLight wrote:
20 Jan 2022
Billy+ wrote:
20 Jan 2022
It would be nice to see a roadmap that acknowledges the standalone product as it's easy to understand the reluctance to add to much while going through the code changes for hidpi but it's not entirely worth the wait considering the price the state plus all the delays.
Their last roadmap update did acknowledge the standalone DAW portion of Reason (both VST3 support and M1 support are coming by May 2022). That said, it doesn't do me a world of good with Reason in its current state I'm afraid.
I'm not sure that vst3 support and M1 build is primarily for standalone as RRP needs to be native else what's the point and vst3 is just part of that puzzle from my limited understanding vst2 and native M1 don't play nice without extra work - but I could be wrong -

either way I really don't see them as standalone improvements just necessary for the times, what I meant in my previous comment was real sequencer improvements,

having midi players is fun (which is what the rack is about) but Lives midi scales and fold functions are simpler better and far more extendable without the cost.

3rd party midi vst arpeggios blow dual arp out of the water but still aren't functional in Reason because of the continued refusal to fully implement the vst feature.

Even simple stuff like the continues call for more channel colour or being able to write to all the labels haven't been done and this stuff is years old relatively easy but ignored.

Don't get me wrong I'm not one of those people who want Reason to end up like bitwig live or god forbid reaper and I generally think RS have kept true to the main principles of Reason but I would really appreciate some improvements as I'm sure you would ;)

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Eprom
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20 Jan 2022

I am old.

I used to have a studio FULL of hardware (Atari) computers, synths, modules, drumcomputers and effect units and with that hundreds and hundreds of (MIDI) cables. When Reason came out it was amazing: all the synths and effects you wanted and no more cable crap. So I sold all of my hardware and went fully software based. Oh the joy of NOT hearing 50 odd fan's blowing and cables humming.

But now I started buying hardware again. I missed the tactile feel of real knobs and sliders on a synth and to be able to tweak two or three synths at the time. And with that I started to get frustrated with using Reason as a DAW. There are many, many MIDI limitations. F.I. you can't send out a MIDI clock to more than one synth at a time!?

So I started to use Logic Pro more and more and more. And nowadays I hardly startup Reason again.

Long story short: if you compose fully digitally Reason is just fine, but as soon as you start adding hardware you will discover lots of limitations.

(PS. I could have been rich by now if I had kept all my analogue gear, seeing the prices my old synths make today :( )
:reason: Reason user since Ver. 1.01(2001) :reason:
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EnochLight
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20 Jan 2022

Billy+ wrote:
20 Jan 2022
I'm not sure that vst3 support and M1 build is primarily for standalone as RRP needs to be native else what's the point and vst3 is just part of that puzzle from my limited understanding vst2 and native M1 don't play nice without extra work - but I could be wrong -

either way I really don't see them as standalone improvements just necessary for the times,
You'll get no complaints from me - I totally agree. That said, VST3 support is 100% a fully standalone feature though, so in that sense it's "something" at least. Reason Rack has been a VST3 itself since launch in R11.
Billy+ wrote:
20 Jan 2022
what I meant in my previous comment was real sequencer improvements,
Oh totally - Reason is laughably behind in that sense (hence my decision to pickup Ableton Live during the BF sales). The main sequencer getting absolutely zero love - aside from high res :lol: - in Reason 12 has been one of the biggest disappointments for me this upgrade. And I know they're trying to improve the browser with quick-search right now, but that's been busted for me since late 2021. Bah... I'm getting irritated the more I think about it. :puf_unhappy: :lol:
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

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Billy+
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21 Jan 2022

Irritated - definitely with you on that I've felt that way since R11 and R12 hasn't done anything to improve my mood, let's hope that they surprise us before another version passes by.....

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moofi
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22 Jan 2022

I hear where you are coming from and fully get the advantages of workflow improvements in a professional environment, where you potentially have to put out constantly.
Aswell on an amateur level it naturally makes things easier and also fun to work with. Then the question isn´t really about mere functionality. It´s asking to swap programs and thatfor at least here would mean a greater disadvantage compared to the so far lack of workflowimprovements, simply because Reason is Reason and other DAW lack in its compartment. It´s similar to the difference between RE and VST.
SuperStellartones wrote:
20 Jan 2022
moofi wrote:
20 Jan 2022
Yes, I know, workflow. Asking not about workflow in general helping to get things done. Asking about the new production level along any possible improvement in sound one could here in the final outcome. Like things not done before because of a lack in workflow.
I don't know if there are necessarily tangible differences in the quality of my work -- though with each project I should be getting a little better at the craft of music making, right? ;)

The big difference is quantity, output -- I can finish full songs quicker, easier and with less frustration.

In Reason, for me, while it's always easy and fun to get an 8-bar loop going with a half dozen tracks, building that out to 20+ tracks with a full arrangement, doing cut-downs (I write some stuff for TV/film), mastering in Reason, etc, etc -- it becomes nightmarish, virtually unusable.

Part of the problem is there's no way to freeze tracks, and very quickly, piling-up VST instruments will kill Reason. Another problem is the Rack -- it's hard to navigate when you start to get lots of tracks. And the sequencer becomes unruly too -- there's is no way to group tracks. It's a constant process of bouncing, opening a new project, pulling the stems into the new project, yada, yada. Why would anyone want to work this way if there's something better?

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SuperStellartones
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24 Jan 2022

moofi wrote:
22 Jan 2022
I hear where you are coming from and fully get the advantages of workflow improvements in a professional environment, where you potentially have to put out constantly.
Aswell on an amateur level it naturally makes things easier and also fun to work with. Then the question isn´t really about mere functionality. It´s asking to swap programs and that for at least here would mean a greater disadvantage compared to the so far lack of workflow improvements, simply because Reason is Reason and other DAW lack in its compartment. It´s similar to the difference between RE and VST.
I'm very much a hobbyist, but with aspirations of being more.

And you're right... it's always a trade-off... "Do I spend my X number of very limited music-making hours per week learning how to use a new tool, or do I plod on with what I know? What will I gain? Is it worth it?"

In my case, while I was less productive in the short-term using a new DAW, I'm far more productive now then I would have been if I stayed in Reason, making the investment of time well worth it.

For me it's been like this analogy -- I've been driving a bike for years for recreation, and I can even get to work on my bike. But man, the bike sucks when it rains and is impossible in the snow. And I can't take my groceries home on my bike. And if I bike to work, I get there all sweaty. Maybe my bike isn't the right tool. Maybe I should learn how to drive a car. Though learning something new will be a pain, maybe it will be worth it. And I can always use my bike for fun when I want to.

For me, Reason is the bike in this story, and Bitwig is the car, lol.

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orthodox
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24 Jan 2022

SuperStellartones wrote:
24 Jan 2022
For me, Reason is the bike in this story, and Bitwig is the car, lol.
To me, they both are motor vehicles, although differing from each other.

This might be what Reason could look like (based on the latest assessments in the forum):

Image
(The "Furthur" bus)

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Quarmat
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24 Jan 2022

I dunno, I am no professional, I'm still (slowly) learning in so many fields of music production, but I am into computer music since the 90s. I began my journey with FastTracker 2 and Cakewalk, used Fruity Loops a couple of years and tried extensively (not owned them tho, it was on a roommate computer at the uni) Logic and ProTools. But when Reason hit the market I was blown away and still am. This piece of software has soul. Dunno how to explain. I recently had to use Live for a project for a video for a customer (I am a designer by trade) and on the free time I tried to make something with it just for fun. Oh boy, it's all grey, monochrome-ish, cold and unwelcoming. The stock synths, samplers, effects all have the minimal, grey interface of the DAW. VSTs are VSTs: floating windows with no connection with the rest.

You may say, we're here to do music not to discuss about UI and design. True. But 10 minutes on Live and my inspiration has run dry.

I fire up Reason and I have to give priority to an idea over the other two that just sparked in my mind.

It has flaws, allright, but to me Reason is irreplaceable.

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moofi
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24 Jan 2022

I was talking less about a learning curve. After having at least briefly worked with several DAW I came across (aswell got Live) I noticed getting into new DAW being relatively easy here. Regarding functionality they vary only that much.
While other DAW tend to be more advanced at parts they lack in the way Reason works and also feels working with here:

.
The Reason Why.jpg
The Reason Why.jpg (620.77 KiB) Viewed 8782 times


SuperStellartones wrote:
24 Jan 2022
moofi wrote:
22 Jan 2022
I hear where you are coming from and fully get the advantages of workflow improvements in a professional environment, where you potentially have to put out constantly.
Aswell on an amateur level it naturally makes things easier and also fun to work with. Then the question isn´t really about mere functionality. It´s asking to swap programs and that for at least here would mean a greater disadvantage compared to the so far lack of workflow improvements, simply because Reason is Reason and other DAW lack in its compartment. It´s similar to the difference between RE and VST.
I'm very much a hobbyist, but with aspirations of being more.

And you're right... it's always a trade-off... "Do I spend my X number of very limited music-making hours per week learning how to use a new tool, or do I plod on with what I know? What will I gain? Is it worth it?"

In my case, while I was less productive in the short-term using a new DAW, I'm far more productive now then I would have been if I stayed in Reason, making the investment of time well worth it.

For me it's been like this analogy -- I've been driving a bike for years for recreation, and I can even get to work on my bike. But man, the bike sucks when it rains and is impossible in the snow. And I can't take my groceries home on my bike. And if I bike to work, I get there all sweaty. Maybe my bike isn't the right tool. Maybe I should learn how to drive a car. Though learning something new will be a pain, maybe it will be worth it. And I can always use my bike for fun when I want to.

For me, Reason is the bike in this story, and Bitwig is the car, lol.

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Seckin
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24 Jan 2022

Reason was accessible to the masses back in the day when it used to be a mere toy, so the masses regarded it as a toy.

Reason was inaccessible to the masses when it became a serious DAW (Codemeter), so the masses continued to regard it as the toy it once was.

Today Reason is once again accessible to the masses, but well, the damage is done. Chances are you'll forever be getting the "I use Reason" reaction, because ain't nobody got time for that.
If you can't make a hit with Malstrom, Subtractor and Redrum, you can't make a hit at all.

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