Where do think Reason (Studios) are heading in the next couple of years? (Speculation thread)

This forum is for discussing Reason. Questions, answers, ideas, and opinions... all apply.
User avatar
sonicbyte
Posts: 339
Joined: 16 Jan 2015
Location: Argentina

Post 12 Jan 2022

Just checking they own roadmap you can tell there is no interest on improve Reason Daw... so, that's it, I'm sticking with R10 for long it seems.

Eddi-16
Posts: 242
Joined: 12 Aug 2017

Post 12 Jan 2022

OK, I will try out Ableton....this is just shit, a fu****ng shit. :(

User avatar
Billy+
Posts: 3705
Joined: 09 Dec 2016

Post 12 Jan 2022

I wouldn't say that there is no interest in adding improvements to the daw every version has brought improvement, maybe not the improvements that many of us would like to see but there has always been something added.

I've tried using a few daws over the years and Reason for me still offers the best workflow, now maybe that's because it was my first daw and I've been using it since version 1 but either way every time I try a new daw I instantly think I'm glad Reason hasn't done some of the things that others have requested and although I still think it could be better I definitely prefer Reason over all the others.

I just hope they don't throw it all away in favour of some subscription rack plugin product but expect that they are going to continue and develop RRP until it's the best it can be it just unfortunate that it is at the expense of standalone for the moment.
Latest (got any vocals?) contact me...

User avatar
plaamook
Posts: 2272
Joined: 22 Jan 2015
Location: Bajo del mar...

Post 12 Jan 2022

Eddi-16 wrote:
12 Jan 2022
OK, I will try out Ableton....this is just shit, a fu****ng shit. :(
I think the same thing every so often. But then I think, screw it. I like using Reason. I'll just stick around and see how it goes.
I keep my eye on the horizon though and buy VST's before Re's.
I'd like see Props win.
And I can't afford Live at the mo even if I like it.

Anyway these sorts of threads always get people worked up and potentially for nothing. As the title says, its a spec thread.
Perpetual Reason 12 Beta Tester :reason:

You can check out my music here.
https://m.soundcloud.com/ericholmofficial
Or here.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC73uZZ ... 8jqUubzsQg

Eddi-16
Posts: 242
Joined: 12 Aug 2017

Post 12 Jan 2022

plaamook wrote:
12 Jan 2022
Eddi-16 wrote:
12 Jan 2022
OK, I will try out Ableton....this is just shit, a fu****ng shit. :(
I think the same thing every so often. But then I think, screw it. I like using Reason. I'll just stick around and see how it goes.
I keep my eye on the horizon though and buy VST's before Re's.
I'd like see Props win.
And I can't afford Live at the mo even if I like it.

Anyway these sorts of threads always get people worked up and potentially for nothing. As the title says, its a spec thread.
Me too, but not this time. This time I really try it to find an other solution. I can't take it any longer....even the smallest updates of workflow will not happen. Its a shame.

User avatar
selig
RE Developer
Posts: 9989
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: The NorthWoods, CT, USA

Post 12 Jan 2022

Eddi-16 wrote:
12 Jan 2022
plaamook wrote:
12 Jan 2022
…Anyway these sorts of threads always get people worked up and potentially for nothing. As the title says, its a spec thread.
Me too, but not this time. This time I really try it to find an other solution. I can't take it any longer....even the smallest updates of workflow will not happen. Its a shame.
I don't think it is accurate to say that even the smallest updates will not happen since every update includes small things (most would say "too small"). The question is will the bigger updates ever happen (which brings me back to "don't hold your breath").
And I would have to agree, these sorts of threads always get people worked up and potentially for nothing. ;)
Selig Audio, LLC

reasonwhy
Posts: 15
Joined: 26 Jan 2021

Post 14 Jan 2022

Reason is a very expressive tool. You get Players which help you be inspired, and there a many cool instruments, sounds and effects to play with. The strength of the software is that it helps you feel inspired. The developers seem to recognize this, and will probably continue to produce new content that will help people produce music "The Reason Way".

That said, a lot is going on with the software. Perhaps too much. The company has to market the rack plug-in and make it attractive to users of other DAWs. The whole transition from version 11 to 12 could have gone a lot smoother and still seems unfinished. Then there is the addition of the subscription service and trying to convince people that this is better than "owning" the software. The DAW still needs a serious overhaul. They still struggle with "finding their voice" in the world of social media. Most of what have been published (expect for Ryan's excellent content) on YouTube and other sites seem to miss the mark. All in all, many difficult aspects to juggle for a small company. This will probably continue to cause frustration.

From the outside, the developers still seem very confident with what they are doing. Confidence is a good thing. This will help them navigate through the "dark times" ahead.

The marketplace for digital audio workstations will probably continue to grow. It has never been easier for beginners to start to make serious music. Attracting new customers (and keeping them) is important to any business. Public image is everything. We live in a world where "looking good" is often more important than "sounding good". If Reason Studios continue to struggle with making a good impression on clients, existing or new ones, their public image will take more damage than they can handle.

All in all, there are many aspects to consider. The main focus of Reason Studios will probably be to make the software look good and be attractive to beginners. We can expect more players, probably a major DAW/sequencer update as well as additional content like Sound Packs for Reason+ subscribers. And they still need to find their voice on social media.

User avatar
DaveyG
Posts: 1581
Joined: 03 May 2020

Post 14 Jan 2022

reasonwhy wrote:
14 Jan 2022
The main focus of Reason Studios will probably be to make the software look good and be attractive to beginners.
If they want to attract beginners and be futureproof in the longer term then they need to be looking towards tablets and iPads because laptops will cease to exist and desktops will become much less common and thus more expensive.

User avatar
aeox
Posts: 3134
Joined: 23 Feb 2017
Location: Oregon

Post 14 Jan 2022

DaveyG wrote:
14 Jan 2022
reasonwhy wrote:
14 Jan 2022
The main focus of Reason Studios will probably be to make the software look good and be attractive to beginners.
If they want to attract beginners and be futureproof in the longer term then they need to be looking towards tablets and iPads because laptops will cease to exist and desktops will become much less common and thus more expensive.

I can't imagine having to be restricted to using a touch screen interface to operate my DAW, that sounds horrifying :D

User avatar
crimsonwarlock
Posts: 518
Joined: 06 Nov 2021
Location: Close to the Edge

Post 14 Jan 2022

aeox wrote:
14 Jan 2022
I can't imagine having to be restricted to using a touch screen interface to operate my DAW, that sounds horrifying :D
Agreed. I have Caustic on my tablet, and it's great to do some quick dabbling, but I would never think of doing full production with it. Besides that, thinking of how I would connect all my outside gear to a tablet makes my head hurt :lol:

User avatar
StephenHutchinson
Posts: 302
Joined: 27 Sep 2019

Post 14 Jan 2022

Eddi-16 wrote:
12 Jan 2022
plaamook wrote:
12 Jan 2022


I think the same thing every so often. But then I think, screw it. I like using Reason. I'll just stick around and see how it goes.
I keep my eye on the horizon though and buy VST's before Re's.
I'd like see Props win.
And I can't afford Live at the mo even if I like it.

Anyway these sorts of threads always get people worked up and potentially for nothing. As the title says, its a spec thread.
Me too, but not this time. This time I really try it to find an other solution. I can't take it any longer....even the smallest updates of workflow will not happen. Its a shame.
While I have Ableton Live Suite 11 and Bitwig 4, I much prefer Bitwig as it seems bit more intuitive and comes the closest to feeling like Reason for me in terms of doing modular cable connecting and using the Grid. It's just a much better environment to work in all around.

The Grid:

The-Grid.jpg


https://www.bitwig.com/
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
:reason: Reason User Since Version 1.0
:refill: Reason Sound Design & Content Creation
Sound Dimension https://www.sounddimension.io

ReFiils: Ambientia Cinematic Soundscapes | String Theory (Friktion) | Algoritmo (Algoritm)

User avatar
avasopht
Posts: 3126
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 14 Jan 2022

StephenHutchinson wrote:
14 Jan 2022
While I have Ableton Live Suite 11 and Bitwig 4, I much prefer Bitwig as it seems bit more intuitive and comes the closest to feeling like Reason for me in terms of doing modular cable connecting and using the Grid. It's just a much better environment to work in all around.
The grid is great. But you can't place complete devices inside it like you can with the rack.

It's like it's somewhere in between Reason and Reaktor. It's a bit of a sweet spot, but a little bit disappointing that you can only use block units.
---

User avatar
DaveyG
Posts: 1581
Joined: 03 May 2020

Post 14 Jan 2022

crimsonwarlock wrote:
14 Jan 2022
aeox wrote:
14 Jan 2022
I can't imagine having to be restricted to using a touch screen interface to operate my DAW, that sounds horrifying :D
Agreed. I have Caustic on my tablet, and it's great to do some quick dabbling, but I would never think of doing full production with it. Besides that, thinking of how I would connect all my outside gear to a tablet makes my head hurt :lol:
And once upon a time people thought that mice were unnecessary on a PC and that MP3 players were just a novelty and would never kill off CDs.

I should stress that I'm also in the "prefer PC/MAC" camp but tablets are getting better and better and with a touchscreen you can tweak several knobs at the same time. Right now there are kids who wonder why their parents insist on sticking with that archaic mouse thingy. :D

User avatar
crimsonwarlock
Posts: 518
Joined: 06 Nov 2021
Location: Close to the Edge

Post 14 Jan 2022

DaveyG wrote:
14 Jan 2022
I should stress that I'm also in the "prefer PC/MAC" camp but tablets are getting better and better and with a touchscreen you can tweak several knobs at the same time. Right now there are kids who wonder why their parents insist on sticking with that archaic mouse thingy. :D
That's where the second part of my reply pointed at: I don't mouse-around that much anyway, I have several hardware controllers that give me the option to tweak multiple things at once, besides giving an actual tactile experience that you will never get from a touchscreen.

User avatar
DaveyG
Posts: 1581
Joined: 03 May 2020

Post 14 Jan 2022

crimsonwarlock wrote:
14 Jan 2022
DaveyG wrote:
14 Jan 2022
I should stress that I'm also in the "prefer PC/MAC" camp but tablets are getting better and better and with a touchscreen you can tweak several knobs at the same time. Right now there are kids who wonder why their parents insist on sticking with that archaic mouse thingy. :D
That's where the second part of my reply pointed at: I don't mouse-around that much anyway, I have several hardware controllers that give me the option to tweak multiple things at once, besides giving an actual tactile experience that you will never get from a touchscreen.
Next you'll be telling me you use actual cables to connect everything. How quaint! :twisted:
You can already send midi and audio wirelessly. Frankly, it's laggy, buggy and unreliable but that will get sorted. Remember, I'm not talking about how we make music today. I'm talking about how the next generation will make it. That's where DAW makers need to be looking.

Do you still have a digital camera? Not so long ago we all had them (and SatNavs and CD players). Now most of us get great results form our phone camera and digital cameras are becoming a niche, high-end thing. When digital cameras first came out everyone laughed at their poor picture quality, chunky batteries and slow shutter speeds.

User avatar
crimsonwarlock
Posts: 518
Joined: 06 Nov 2021
Location: Close to the Edge

Post 14 Jan 2022

DaveyG wrote:
14 Jan 2022
Next you'll be telling me you use actual cables to connect everything. How quaint! :twisted:
Well...... I do have a piano (albeit a digital one) with a weighted hammer-action full-range keyboard in my studio, so maybe that is telling something.

I do get your point of course, and the past ain't what it used to be either, but newer isn't always better :puf_bigsmile:

User avatar
ShelLuser
Posts: 347
Joined: 25 Aug 2019

Post 21 Jan 2022

A second post from me, hope that's ok...

I'm going to be honest with you guys, I'm kinda worried / troubled, also due to new personal discoveries. I don't want to sound gloomy, but... hope you guys will hear me out.

Ever since ReWire got discontinued I've been somewhat struggleing. See, I've been using my "power combo" of Ableton Live + Reason pretty much from the moment I started with Live 8 back in 2009. I remember it like yesterday: I picked up on Live Suite and also decided to buy into Max for Live (this was new & separate back then). But I wanted more diversity in my setup. I tried Reason 4 but got upset with the copyright protection because I couldn't demo anything (cut off after 5 minutes). So I used "alternative channels", spend most of the night trying and the next day I spend the last of my savings on Reason 4. It didn't take long before I got to appreciate having 2 totally different sequencers vs. only one. I read so many complaints about the Reason sequencer over the years (both on the Reason forums back then and here) and just kept quiet because... honestly: I loved it. Yah, it had its quirks, but whatever Reason couldn't do for me Live could, and vice versa.

When Reason launched the rack plugin I started looking for other alternatives for my 2nd sequencer and initially turned to Native Instruments, Maschine in particular. Playing Kong using the Maschine pads (routed through Live)? I'm honestly somewhat hooked on that, being the nut who actually compared the Maschine 808 kit with Kong 808 and I can tell you that while they are different in some ways there's also plenty of overlap. Both are solidly awesome 😎

I definitely became a bit of a Maschine fanboy but at the same time I also had to admit that the Maschine sequencer didn't fully weigh up to that of Reason. Some bias is in effect here because there's quite a difference between using Maschine stand alone or as a VST inside Live, one which didn't apply when I was using Reason as a ReWired client.


And then someone on Reddit reminded me of FL Studio. Which I demo'd last Thursday, no need for "alternative solutions" and I am going to be fully honest with you guys right now: I was shocked.

For starters... Reason gives us the rack when you use the VST plugin. FL on the other hand launches the full DAW, sequencer and all. One which also allows me to record MIDI coming in from Live, just like Reason used to do. And it gets 'worse'; I was a die-hard fan of blocks mode because you could do some serious fun stuff with that. That pattern based approach is standard for FL.

Now, don't get me wrong here. I'm not trying to make it sound as if FL is the perfect Reason substitute because it most definitely is not. Their mixer panel is laughable when compared to the Reason mixer but... then we're also coming to the issue at hand for me that I couldn't use that with Live anymore anyway. Reasons routing through the back panel is also absolutely superior within this comparison; while FL can do some of the same routing you'll have to 'dig' pretty deep sometimes (one possible keyword being 'Patcher'). Not to mention that those awesome Reason players are fully non-existent here, and don't get me started on things like Alligator.

But then it's also fair to state that this sequencer is pretty on-par and in some ways even way beyond both Reason and Live (MIDI data on top of an audio waveform so you can sync your stuff?). Reason players are very impressive. And then I discover the "formula controller" which I can use to insert mathmetical formulas which can then generate MIDI data to be used to control instruments and effects. Sure: the learning curve is almost vertical in comparison to the Reason players, but at the same time the potential pretty much goes into space, way beyond the players.

Ok, enough rambling.

My point: there are some serious competitors out there which, from my point of view, can easily compete in both feature amount and price. Reason Studios has a mobile app for Apple only. FL on the other hand has one for all platforms. Not just that: the desktop platform provides full support for the mobile platform and I can actually load my "mobile presets" directly into my desktop environment. Even when I'm using said environment as a plugin within another DAW like, say, Live.

As I said before: I was shocked when I discovered all this. That weird "one buy, all future updates are free" FL environment which somewhat combines Live's session view with Reason's block mode and Melodyne's vocal processing plus Kontakts sampling options together with a barrage of effects and other instruments? Providing free updates for over 20 years now?

And they're catching up, I can tell you that!

Anyway, I can't help but start wondering how this is all going to work out for Reason Studios. People who are using it stand alone complain that hardly any new features are finding their way into the sequencer, and I know this has been an ongoing issue for quite some time now. And if you're using the rack plugin... there's also not that much new and exciting stuff over there either; though bassline generator is definitely an awesome development. But at the same time I can also argue that I can somewhat achieve the same thing with beatmap if I "abuse" the whole thing, the concept as-is isn't that new, not even for Reason Studios.

Long story summed up: I bought into FL Studio this week and I didn't just got my 2nd sequencer again, I got one which can even do more stuff than the Reason and Maschine sequencers combined (from my pov the Reason sequencer was always superior to the Live sequencer, hence me not mentioning it here). And if I then look at the recent past... Reason introduces an HD interface with 12. FL Studio pushes their mobile platform, a frequency shifter usable for multiple approaches and more where most of this stuff was provided free of charge.

I can't help think that Reason is losing its edge in comparison to some of its competitors. That's not saying that Reason is no good anymore or any of such nonsense, heck no, but like I said before: I was honestly shocked when I discovered some of the stuff FL Studio provides right now (like a whole sequencer through a VST plugin).

Alas, felt the need to vent a bit. Because for me synths are a passion and while I am pretty much in awe with all the features I now have at my disposal I also can't help stop thinking back at my time with Live + Reason. Been using that combo through most of the last decade so yah, it has its effect on me.

But I cannot help wonder if things aren't going to run out soon eventually. Though I honestly hope that I'm dead wrong here.
--- :reason:

User avatar
avasopht
Posts: 3126
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 21 Jan 2022

ShelLuser wrote:
21 Jan 2022
A second post from me, hope that's ok...

...

But I cannot help wonder if things aren't going to run out soon eventually. Though I honestly hope that I'm dead wrong here.
I tried FL Studio a while back (we're talking a good 15 years now). I occasionally download the latest demo, and my position is the same now as it was then.

It's a brilliant program. I have a lot of fun with it, and it works very well with my workflow (especially how freely you can drag and drop audio around the UI). Back in 2007, my only gripe was self-containing samples. It was the only dealbreaker for me, otherwise, I probably would have converted over for good.

That was around the time I got the Korg Triton LE. I found it easy to record audio directly into FL Studio and jam with it. But something in the workflow didn't click, and it might have been mostly down to how it managed (or failed to manage) the samples in a project.

The main thing is ... use whatever you enjoy using.
---

Eddi-16
Posts: 242
Joined: 12 Aug 2017

Post 22 Jan 2022

@ Reason Studios

Please update the sequencer & workflow of the DAW a.s.a.p.

User avatar
Eprom
Posts: 74
Joined: 24 Sep 2017

Post 26 Jan 2022

aeox wrote:
14 Jan 2022
I can't imagine having to be restricted to using a touch screen interface to operate my DAW, that sounds horrifying :D
"Restricted"? No. But the combination of Logic Pro and being able to use your iPad to control basically anything you want inside Logic works like a charm.
:reason: Reason user since Ver. 1.01(2001) :reason:
- I read everything, but rarely post on forums -

User avatar
Jagwah
Posts: 2233
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 26 Jan 2022

Much more of the same, endless rack devices and very little anything else, also lots of advertising.
:reason: It's all about the plo, yo.

scotward57
Posts: 113
Joined: 28 Jul 2019

Post 26 Jan 2022

Eprom wrote:
26 Jan 2022
aeox wrote:
14 Jan 2022
I can't imagine having to be restricted to using a touch screen interface to operate my DAW, that sounds horrifying :D
"Restricted"? No. But the combination of Logic Pro and being able to use your iPad to control basically anything you want inside Logic works like a charm.
I can't tell you how many times I wanted something in Reason and discovered it was already happening in Logic. My only remaining dream wish is that the Rack became open to Logic stock instruments and AUs inside Logic. Which won't happen unless Apple buys out Reason Studios.

User avatar
EnochLight
Moderator
Posts: 7715
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: Useless Moderator

Post 26 Jan 2022

My own 2 cents: in the short term, Reason Studios will likely focus on bug fixes and performance improvements for the next few months. As it stands, 12.2.4 (that literally *JUST* came out) is still broken. :lol: Fast search doesn't work on at least one (possibly more) of my folders that I have in my user locations, and disk-usage is still abnormally high for too long after startup (*Edit: actually, there is a bit of an improvement over the previous stable channel). High-res graphics are still missing in some areas, and there continues to be minor graphical glitches (such as the Delay Comp numerical readout). Then we'll (probably) see the core DAW get the long waited for VST3 support - and I'm betting (but not hoping!) it's implemented half-assed like VST2 was, along with M1 support for the Apple peeps (they may not appear in that order). Between now and mid-summer, we'll probably see at least 1 if not more new Rack Extensions or Players to keep the R+ subscription peeps placated, and obviously Reason Companion content will continue to flow.

Long term (they are obviously majority owned by a venture capital group who's primary business is "flipping businesses", so they are absolutely going to be sold and bought by another entity at some point) we'll probably see more Rack Extensions and Players, hopefully Combinator improvements, and maybe - just MAYBE - some core-DAW improvements (otherwise they will continue to bleed users who prefer to only use Reason as a standalone DAW). Full disclosure: I'm one of those long-term users that bought a new DAW for the first time in a long time specifically because I grew tired of their complacency in core-DAW improvements (Ableton Live II Suite FTW!)... R+ subscriptions will continue as they have been, and they will always be optional. They'll never fully discard the perpetual license purchase as an option either, despite the naysayers.

So, that's my rather bleak perspective. Do I hope I'm wrong? Absolutely, in more categories than one! Maybe we'll see a shake-up and they'll surprise us with something awesome. Maybe they won't. Who knows.
Win 10 | Enabling the Abelton ABLERS Live 11 Suite-Ably |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Force | Roland System 8, TR-8 7x7, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

User avatar
DaveyG
Posts: 1581
Joined: 03 May 2020

Post 26 Jan 2022

EnochLight wrote:
26 Jan 2022
Long term (they are obviously majority owned by a venture capital group who's primary business is "flipping businesses", so they are absolutely going to be sold and bought by another entity at some point)
Maybe Verdane will take such a liking to RS that they decide to break with tradition and keep them, kinda like those rare occasions when foster parents decide to adopt a child rather then, erm, move them on.

Yeah, OK. That's a "never gonna happen". The real worry is that any new owner will quickly (rashly?) make more changes on top of those already made by Verdane and those changes will crush the ethos/spirit/heart of what we knew as Propellerhead.

Apart from that you can expect more focus on Reason+ and the plug-in aspects of the product.

User avatar
Arrant
Posts: 492
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 26 Jan 2022

RS should be worried when even Enoch has finally seen the light.

Okay, that was more for the pun than for anything else.. But it is a worry that longtime proud Reason users like EnochLight and many others (I'll include myself in that) have sort of given up on the DAW due to the absolute clusterf*** the R12 release has been. 5 months after the release and it's one hundred percent still broken, it's simply not acceptable.
Don't get me wrong, every release it's improving and I'm certain we will get there in the end so Reason will be a great product once again, but the cost to development of other features, user goodwill and lost subscribers must have been substantial.

  • Information
  • Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: 83X5T, monad, Popey, Trendiction [Bot] and 1 guest