"I use Reason" reaction

[deeplink]

There could be a few reasons for this;

1. The late introduction of VST's, still no VST3 support.

2. The late introduction of Audio Channels

3. The "Reason Sound" - which I believe stemmed from comparing stand-alone VST plugins to stock devices in Reason. e.g In 2007, Sylenth1 had a built in arp, chorus, phaser, distortion etc. The big sound you can get with a single patch was enormous. Reason Studios did not have a comparable stand-alone device until Reason 10 with Europa (2017).

4. The proliferation of other of other DAWs in the bedroom producer community, given that they were easily crackable

5. The marketing of RS to be 'simple' and 'fun', rather than 'technical' and 'professional'.

6. Perhaps also, Reason appears to be an ugly duckling because it wasn't - and still cannot - be easily compared to other DAWs. Previously, it technically wasn't a DAW because it did not have Audio Tracks and VST support. Now, Reason is also a Plugin. So who do you compare Reason against? Ableton? Cubase? FabFilter? Kilohearts? All of them at the same time? Reason certainly doesn't have all the bells and whistles of the DAW's and VST's mentioned - but at the same time, none of those have the same offering of Reason.

[DaveyG]

I think Reason is just seen as a bit unfashionable, like wearing the wrong trainers.

And I agree with the sentiment expressed by some in this thread that most kids start out with free or pirated tools, because they haven't got any money. I had a copy of Cakewalk on a floppy disk and my only sound source was a Soundblaster (still a great name for a product!)

[aeox]

[QVprod]

Very interesting! Music circles are so small.

Well ... if you were a budding talented musician who happened to have an uncle or a close family friend who had resources and connections, you're probably going to get easy access.

What ends up happening is that you quickly end up with tightly knit networks across the generations.

Things might change now that it's much more accessible, but even with a more level playing field, those connections make a huge difference.

I've seen it here in the UK. It's such a small world

Agreed if he was able to tap into that. I don’t think this family connection is widely known, which makes it more surprising. First I’ve heard of it at least.

[QVprod]

There’s always been this really weird elitism. Got on the PUF around 2009 and saw silly debates about the “reason sound”. It’s just never changed.

Not much changed - from earlier today, the "reason sound" argument just won't die!
viewtopic.php?p=592486#p592486

Just saw an “engineer” post a video today ranking DAWs by sound quality… yeah it never ends lol

[Loque]

There’s always been this really weird elitism. Got on the PUF around 2009 and saw silly debates about the “reason sound”. It’s just never changed.

Not much changed - from earlier today, the "reason sound" argument just won't die!
viewtopic.php?p=592486#p592486

Ppl still can beat math with their ears...

[orthodox]

Not much changed - from earlier today, the "reason sound" argument just won't die!
viewtopic.php?p=592486#p592486

Ppl still can beat math with their ears...

Ears play no role in the evaluation, muted by a prejudice.

[ProfessaKaos]

A good song doesn't care what you use to make it... and nether do people.

[SoulState]

A good song doesn't care what you use to make it... and nether do people.

Exactly!

[Creativemind]

Yeah, pretty much like so. Reason 12 is million times more powerful, than what it used to be. I'd even say, that there's no excuse anymore to blame Reason, for not being able to make hit-music.
One could replace all the stocks with any REs or VSTs now. The bottlenecks have become different - regarding bad music. A superb music in the quality-wise is possible.

Re or VST has never been what makes hit music it's the person making the music that makes the hits.

It has never been what instrument is used but the person playing it.
The DAW is not making any hits except maybe now the player in reason will make a hit that the "creator" can't recreate if he mistakenly deletes it

There's some truth in what you say. I mean you can make phenomenal patches with a Combinator, Thor, Europa and / or a SubTractor or 2 + effects but you need to really know what you're doing to achieve it, whereas someone with an ear for music but a novice in synthesis / sound design can open Sylenth, Serum, Diva, Dune 3 etc and quite easily tweak a patch that just inspires in 5 minutes and it's a patch that's BIG and blows you away. That one sound can then spur you on to add another sound - bass, pads / strings etc then you're in. Add drums and you're flying. It all comes from one inspirational patch.

The other big draw back, is being able to lay that idea down quickly and build the song up, the arrangement. Reason is quick in some respects but things missing like linked clips and automation (say after duplicating a clip 20 times and then you decide you want a different chord at point A or a melody line to have 2 or 3 different notes in it than you originally decided) you have to then painstakingly delete all your duplicated clips etc, every other daw has pooled / linked / aliased clips and automation which saves you a tedious task and also drawing your own automation, creating your own shortcuts etc. These ease of life things enable you to keep the creativity flowing without stopping you in your tracks.

[Eddi-16]

Re or VST has never been what makes hit music it's the person making the music that makes the hits.

It has never been what instrument is used but the person playing it.
The DAW is not making any hits except maybe now the player in reason will make a hit that the "creator" can't recreate if he mistakenly deletes it

There's some truth in what you say. I mean you can make phenomenal patches with a Combinator, Thor, Europa and / or a SubTractor or 2 + effects but you need to really know what you're doing to achieve it, whereas someone with an ear for music but a novice in synthesis / sound design can open Sylenth, Serum, Diva, Dune 3 etc and quite easily tweak a patch that just inspires in 5 minutes and it's a patch that's BIG and blows you away. That one sound can then spur you on to add another sound - bass, pads / strings etc then you're in. Add drums and you're flying. It all comes from one inspirational patch.

The other big draw back, is being able to lay that idea down quickly and build the song up, the arrangement. Reason is quick in some respects but things missing like linked clips and automation (say after duplicating a clip 20 times and then you decide you want a different chord at point A or a melody line to have 2 or 3 different notes in it than you originally decided) you have to then painstakingly delete all your duplicated clips etc, every other daw has pooled / linked / aliased clips and automation which saves you a tedious task and also drawing your own automation, creating your own shortcuts etc. These ease of life things enable you to keep the creativity flowing without stopping you in your tracks.

Yes, we need really workflow improvements. Its really missing. Reason has no nice "on the fly jam" flow. From an UX perspective, it feels unordered and some kind of outdated.
At least the UI is outstanding...

[artmessiah]

Best Answer given

[demt]

It depends on the size of your organ I've got a nektar gxp 88 and it really makes reason wail n groan,honest the extra range makes those circits hum as I stretch the pitch

[ScuzzyEye]

The other big draw back, is being able to lay that idea down quickly and build the song up, the arrangement. Reason is quick in some respects but things missing like linked clips and automation (say after duplicating a clip 20 times and then you decide you want a different chord at point A or a melody line to have 2 or 3 different notes in it than you originally decided) you have to then painstakingly delete all your duplicated clips etc, every other daw has pooled / linked / aliased clips and automation which saves you a tedious task and also drawing your own automation, creating your own shortcuts etc. These ease of life things enable you to keep the creativity flowing without stopping you in your tracks.

We do have Blocks. If you edit the sequences used in a block, they're automatically reflected everywhere that block is used. My preferred way to work is lay out the song in blocks, and then if some part needs to be different for just a couple instruments put an overlaying sequence in the Song view.

[Ottostrom]

The other big draw back, is being able to lay that idea down quickly and build the song up, the arrangement. Reason is quick in some respects but things missing like linked clips and automation (say after duplicating a clip 20 times and then you decide you want a different chord at point A or a melody line to have 2 or 3 different notes in it than you originally decided) you have to then painstakingly delete all your duplicated clips etc, every other daw has pooled / linked / aliased clips and automation which saves you a tedious task and also drawing your own automation, creating your own shortcuts etc. These ease of life things enable you to keep the creativity flowing without stopping you in your tracks.

We do have Blocks. If you edit the sequences used in a block, they're automatically reflected everywhere that block is used. My preferred way to work is lay out the song in blocks, and then if some part needs to be different for just a couple instruments put an overlaying sequence in the Song view.

Really wish there was a way to layer multiple blocks in the sequencer. Then you could use it for linked editing in even more cases. As it is now I mostly put my chorus vocals in a block so I can at least skip the copy/paste every time I make a slight vocal edit on those.

[orthodox]

Really wish there was a way to layer multiple blocks in the sequencer. Then you could use it for linked editing in even more cases. As it is now I mostly put my chorus vocals in a block so I can at least skip the copy/paste every time I make a slight vocal edit on those.

I've been asking that for a decade already.

[Creativemind]

There's some truth in what you say. I mean you can make phenomenal patches with a Combinator, Thor, Europa and / or a SubTractor or 2 + effects but you need to really know what you're doing to achieve it, whereas someone with an ear for music but a novice in synthesis / sound design can open Sylenth, Serum, Diva, Dune 3 etc and quite easily tweak a patch that just inspires in 5 minutes and it's a patch that's BIG and blows you away. That one sound can then spur you on to add another sound - bass, pads / strings etc then you're in. Add drums and you're flying. It all comes from one inspirational patch.

The other big draw back, is being able to lay that idea down quickly and build the song up, the arrangement. Reason is quick in some respects but things missing like linked clips and automation (say after duplicating a clip 20 times and then you decide you want a different chord at point A or a melody line to have 2 or 3 different notes in it than you originally decided) you have to then painstakingly delete all your duplicated clips etc, every other daw has pooled / linked / aliased clips and automation which saves you a tedious task and also drawing your own automation, creating your own shortcuts etc. These ease of life things enable you to keep the creativity flowing without stopping you in your tracks.

Yes, we need really workflow improvements. Its really missing. Reason has no nice "on the fly jam" flow. From an UX perspective, it feels unordered and some kind of outdated.
At least the UI is outstanding...

The rack and main mixer look great but the sequencer could look better. I preferred the old transport than the one that came with 8 but used to it now. The clips aren't too bad or the ruler and locators but think the side bit where you label etc (what is that part called, the inspector?) could be improved.

[Creativemind]

The other big draw back, is being able to lay that idea down quickly and build the song up, the arrangement. Reason is quick in some respects but things missing like linked clips and automation (say after duplicating a clip 20 times and then you decide you want a different chord at point A or a melody line to have 2 or 3 different notes in it than you originally decided) you have to then painstakingly delete all your duplicated clips etc, every other daw has pooled / linked / aliased clips and automation which saves you a tedious task and also drawing your own automation, creating your own shortcuts etc. These ease of life things enable you to keep the creativity flowing without stopping you in your tracks.

We do have Blocks. If you edit the sequences used in a block, they're automatically reflected everywhere that block is used. My preferred way to work is lay out the song in blocks, and then if some part needs to be different for just a couple instruments put an overlaying sequence in the Song view.

Yes, if you use Blocks but never really used them and although similar, it's not linking clips as I described. Nearly mentioned it as I knew someone would.

[Goriila Texas]

That's true and why I said in another thread I respect those who completely produce in Reason start to finish because it just stinks as far as workflow. With all due respect I question the sanity of the users who work solely in Reason. I mean the mentality of the user that readjust panning, output channel, level you get the picture a total reset every time they load a sample in Kong is the definition of madness. I respect you dudes who can't hover over a mixer knob, fader, in the sequencer or audio track and turn, move up/down, zoom in/out or stretch audio with the mouse wheel in Reason. Y'all working in that janky browser that been updated three times lol. Then the CEO acting like Reason is Live or Studio One wondering why nobody wants to subscribe The whole outside world makes fun of Reason because it's a software that's been put together like Frankenstein

And just because Drake daddy use Reason don't mean shyt because it's a lot of bullshiet music on the radio. Being on the radio or in the studio working don't mean shyt to me cuz I'll battle any mf in hip hop, R&B , Soul and I don't put any music out professionally. I got beats from 2015 that'll kill the bullshiet on the radio. My only problem was mixing and I've figured that out.


Tequila!!!

I'ma turn my link back on and I do have a YouTube with battle beats with the same name from years ago I'm way better now.

A good song doesn't care what you use to make it... and nether do people.

[avasopht]

And just because Drake daddy use Reason don't mean shyt because it's a lot of bullshiet music on the radio. Being on the radio or in the studio working don't mean shyt to me cuz I'll battle any mf in hip hop, R&B , Soul and I don't put any music out professionally. I got beats from 2015 that'll kill the bullshiet on the radio. My only problem was mixing and I've figured that out.

Why are you keeping all this stuff to yourself?

[Goriila Texas]

Not everybody wants to be a famous producer or Rockstar. Once you find out the music business is fake streaming and industry plants you take a step back and just watch. Not trying to derail this thread but there’s a hidden agenda behind rappers wearing dresses who can’t even rap and the people with no talent on the radio. To really get on in the music business you got to make a blood sacrifice and I don’t want to be around none of them demons. That’s all ima say off topic.

And just because Drake daddy use Reason don't mean shyt because it's a lot of bullshiet music on the radio. Being on the radio or in the studio working don't mean shyt to me cuz I'll battle any mf in hip hop, R&B , Soul and I don't put any music out professionally. I got beats from 2015 that'll kill the bullshiet on the radio. My only problem was mixing and I've figured that out.

Why are you keeping all this stuff to yourself?

[chimp_spanner]

I have said this before but yeah, Reason still has a perception problem (and it's not exactly helped by the marketing being centred around it as a plugin). People who watch my streams are, if not producers, producer enthusiasts. They follow a lot of producers in the scene, know the terminology and lingo and all the programs. And it blows my mind how many are *still* asking "what DAW is that?". It's just not on a lot of peoples' radar. I recommend it to them with the caveat that I'm still waiting for a lot of things to come to it and reserve the right to switch back to Cubase at any given moment lol

[Eddi-16]

All they have to do - and they should have done it years ago - is to update and marketing the core product -> DAW + Rack with the existing deices. Not always "new" fancy stuff. Reason had & still has so much potential, I just can't understand how they did not see it and ignore their core product and users until today. Plugin marketing only is own goal in long term again. No wonder, that they get in trouble and not many people know it and they get bought by investor.

Terrible product organisation in my opinion, really. It runs like a line through last 5 years.

[adfielding]

I'm not going to lie, I've always kind of liked that outsider perception of Reason as something used by weirdos haha! That said, there's definitely been a perception shift from Reason being this cool, slick new thing from the earlier versions to how it's seen now. A frequent comment during that shift was that Reason is more of a toy than a serious platform for music production, and from a personal point of view I've never had a huge problem with that assessment - I've always had fun using Reason, and if you can't write something good with it then I'd say that says more about the user than Reason itself.

But yeah, I've never really seen the point in the snobbish attitudes certain folks have towards what other people happen to use. It reminds me of when I see people using amazing looking setups to create music that sounds like it was made using a bunch of free VSTs from 2001 - it's this performative obsession rather than any genuine interest in using what works best, and I get the feeling that a lot of people really buy into that for some reason.

[Goriila Texas]

Reason is far behind other DAWs yes you can make music with it but you’re working harder than other DAW users it’s not even debatable. It’s like two men trying to dig a ditch and one is using a shovel and the other a spoon. Yes both will dig but the guy using a spoon is a fool. I’m not calling Reason uses fools but I do scratch my head at the rigorous workflow y’all choose to make music in.

I'm not going to lie, I've always kind of liked that outsider perception of Reason as something used by weirdos haha! That said, there's definitely been a perception shift from Reason being this cool, slick new thing from the earlier versions to how it's seen now. A frequent comment during that shift was that Reason is more of a toy than a serious platform for music production, and from a personal point of view I've never had a huge problem with that assessment - I've always had fun using Reason, and if you can't write something good with it then I'd say that says more about the user than Reason itself.

But yeah, I've never really seen the point in the snobbish attitudes certain folks have towards what other people happen to use. It reminds me of when I see people using amazing looking setups to create music that sounds like it was made using a bunch of free VSTs from 2001 - it's this performative obsession rather than any genuine interest in using what works best, and I get the feeling that a lot of people really buy into that for some reason.