What items are not Automatable?

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deeplink
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Post 11 Jan 2022

I think I'm having a bit of daft moment, but I can recall many many instances of people asking questions, like "why cant I automate this?",
and the answer is usually "put it in a combinator!"

But I'm struggling to find instances of these? Everything I that I can control using a combinator, I can automate on the device itself - correct?
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Billy+
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Post 11 Jan 2022

Correct if you can automate it you can use it in combinator

But there's plenty of devices that have controls that can't be automated, check the controls for the newer devices like umpf drums for example.
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ScuzzyEye
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Post 11 Jan 2022

An additional confirmation. The code that's added to a control to make it able to have an automation lane, also makes it so it can be mapped inside of a Combinator. They're one and the same. The only additional, separate property is a Remote name assignment. So controls get a automation/Combinator assignment, a Remote assignment, both, or neither.

Automation assignments are limited to about 200 (from a pool of 256, but some are reserved). Remote assignments use alphanumeric names, so they are more plentiful (but not unlimited, there's about 36^4 possible names). It would really be nice if Reason could (easily) map Remote properties internally. Instead of them being only for control surfaces.

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orthodox
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Post 11 Jan 2022

ScuzzyEye wrote:
11 Jan 2022
The code that's added to a control to make it able to have an automation lane, also makes it so it can be mapped inside of a Combinator. They're one and the same.
I've always wondered how a Combinator gets access to some device controls outside the automation set. You can put a Kong in a Combi and compare the "Drum 1" sublist on the Kong automation list in the sequencer with that in the Combi programmer. A Combi has access to more controls somehow.

Image Image

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ScuzzyEye
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Post 11 Jan 2022

orthodox wrote:
11 Jan 2022
I've always wondered how a Combinator gets access to some device controls outside the automation set. You can put a Kong in a Combi and compare the "Drum 1" sublist on the Kong automation list in the sequencer with that in the Combi programmer. A Combi has access to more controls somehow.
Kong was pre-RE SDK. When coding things back then they could make up what ever rules they felt like. There probably are two lists internally of automation and Combinator mappings. Just for REs they're built out of the same data.

Interestingly, some of the rules for the final SDK weren't applied to the proto-REs, like The Echo. With the final SDK when a knob has two ranges, like for free running and sync'd, they are actually two different properties internally. But in The Echo the knob's value range changes when sync in enabled. That makes display strange (at least the original Combinator, didn't check with v2), if you map the control, and then flip the switch.

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selig
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Post 11 Jan 2022

orthodox wrote:
11 Jan 2022
ScuzzyEye wrote:
11 Jan 2022
The code that's added to a control to make it able to have an automation lane, also makes it so it can be mapped inside of a Combinator. They're one and the same.
I've always wondered how a Combinator gets access to some device controls outside the automation set. You can put a Kong in a Combi and compare the "Drum 1" sublist on the Kong automation list in the sequencer with that in the Combi programmer. A Combi has access to more controls somehow.

Image Image
Luckily, now there are more than four knobs allowed on a Combinator you can get around this limitation by assigning the 'missing' controls to Combinator knobs and automating those. Not the most elegant solution, but it works.
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Billy+
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Post 11 Jan 2022

selig wrote:
11 Jan 2022
Luckily, now there are more than four knobs allowed on a Combinator you can get around this limitation by assigning the 'missing' controls to Combinator knobs and automating those. Not the most elegant solution, but it works.
I'm confused by this statement, are you referring to kong only?

Example: umpf retro tape settings
  • Drive (available)
  • Compress (available)
  • Bass (not available)
  • Treble (not available)
  • Hiss (not available)
  • Hum (not available)
I'm not being funny, I'm just unsure about the "missing control" work around?
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ScuzzyEye
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Post 11 Jan 2022

Billy+ wrote:
11 Jan 2022
I'm confused by this statement, are you referring to kong only?
It was a Kong-only example. Because Kong has a few controls that can be mapped in a Combinator, but don't have the option for an automation lane. You map the excluded control in the Combinator, and then automate the Combinator knob instead. In REs the lists always match, so you won't find a place that this works any more.

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Billy+
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Post 11 Jan 2022

ScuzzyEye wrote:
11 Jan 2022
Billy+ wrote:
11 Jan 2022
I'm confused by this statement, are you referring to kong only?
It was a Kong-only example. Because Kong has a few controls that can be mapped in a Combinator, but don't have the option for an automation lane. You map the excluded control in the Combinator, and then automate the Combinator knob instead. In REs the lists always match, so you won't find a place that this works any more.
Thanks, thought I was missing a trick.
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Creativemind
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Post 11 Jan 2022

Billy+ wrote:
11 Jan 2022
Correct if you can automate it you can use it in combinator

But there's plenty of devices that have controls that can't be automated, check the controls for the newer devices like umpf drums for example.
Yeah one such, in fact 2 such examples are the Pitch Bend Range controls (not Pitch Bend - the Pitch Bend Range) in both the NN-XT and Mimic. Not automatable and not even so in a Combinator don't think.
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Billy+
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Post 11 Jan 2022

Creativemind wrote:
11 Jan 2022
Billy+ wrote:
11 Jan 2022
Correct if you can automate it you can use it in combinator

But there's plenty of devices that have controls that can't be automated, check the controls for the newer devices like umpf drums for example.
Yeah one such, in fact 2 such examples are the Pitch Bend Range controls (not Pitch Bend - the Pitch Bend Range) in both the NN-XT and Mimic. Not automatable and not even so in a Combinator don't think.
The combinator isn't magic and doesn't have any more access than the automation available, I was hoping that CMBv2 would fix that but it must be done by the RE developers (Reason Studios) for the most part seems to be most guilty of "missing" them from devices while the 3rd party developers have definitely taken more time to add automation.
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Loque
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Post 12 Jan 2022

Billy+ wrote:
11 Jan 2022
Creativemind wrote:
11 Jan 2022


Yeah one such, in fact 2 such examples are the Pitch Bend Range controls (not Pitch Bend - the Pitch Bend Range) in both the NN-XT and Mimic. Not automatable and not even so in a Combinator don't think.
The combinator isn't magic and doesn't have any more access than the automation available, I was hoping that CMBv2 would fix that but it must be done by the RE developers (Reason Studios) for the most part seems to be most guilty of "missing" them from devices while the 3rd party developers have definitely taken more time to add automation.
RS decided, that we do not need to automate it.

Just in one of their latest videos they came to the conclusion, that this must be rethought...and we alll know that will never happen 😂
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Billy+
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Post 12 Jan 2022

Loque wrote:
12 Jan 2022
Billy+ wrote:
11 Jan 2022


The combinator isn't magic and doesn't have any more access than the automation available, I was hoping that CMBv2 would fix that but it must be done by the RE developers (Reason Studios) for the most part seems to be most guilty of "missing" them from devices while the 3rd party developers have definitely taken more time to add automation.
RS decided, that we do not need to automate it.

Just in one of their latest videos they came to the conclusion, that this must be rethought...and we alll know that will never happen 😂
You are not mistaken I have a vague memory of a discussion about missing automation in devices which "should be looked at " but I'm also assuming like you that it was just another throw away comment that won't see the light of day (unfortunately)

Or maybe this mystical enabling technology will be able to find and fix missing automation within the devices during RE build?
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Creativemind
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Post 13 Jan 2022

Loque wrote:
12 Jan 2022
Billy+ wrote:
11 Jan 2022


The combinator isn't magic and doesn't have any more access than the automation available, I was hoping that CMBv2 would fix that but it must be done by the RE developers (Reason Studios) for the most part seems to be most guilty of "missing" them from devices while the 3rd party developers have definitely taken more time to add automation.
RS decided, that we do not need to automate it.

Just in one of their latest videos they came to the conclusion, that this must be rethought...and we alll know that will never happen 😂
What, the Pitch Bend Range? they said they would look into it being automatable?
:reason:

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