Combinator - Please add an Advanced Velocity Range

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Clos3r
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Post 03 Jan 2022

When I was creating a new patch today I could not believe it's NOT featured in the new Combinator... So when I'm operating the combinator the scale is still limited to a 0-127 velocity range. What about dB or Frequency? What I need is that whenever I assign a panel control to a device parameter that combinator simply copies the velocity range and by that adopts advanced velocity ranges such as Hz (Frequency) or -+db.

Background of this: I wanted to create an 8-Band MClass Equalizer by combining three MClass EQs. The MClass is a great EQ but it has only 4 Bands with just two parametric frequency knobs. When I'm mixing my instruments, almost always I need 4-6 parametric frequency knobs. What I have to do than is to put 2-3 MClass EQs under each instrument so my Rack after mixing is spammed with MClass Equalizers... I thought the new combinator would be perfect for this. I would be able to do my own DIY 8-Band Equalizer using the amazing MClass EQs.
The new combinator is powerful and has amazing features, yes! But this small detail makes it useless for controlling every parameter that has a different velocity than -64 to +64 or 0 to 127...
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selig
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Post 03 Jan 2022

I guess one big issue is what to do if you are controlling more than one parameter with a single knob.
For example, if you set a Combi knob to control two volume controls, one going up and one going down you have a simple crossfader (though not at all ideal, but bear with me). Since one control is going from off to full volume, and the other is going from full volume to off - which one should the Combinator knob display?
Or what if I want to open a filter and lower the level at the same time, does the knob display Hz or dB?

There are other potential issues, such as when a rate knob controls both free and synced properties you need to assign the knob to BOTH destinations (they are more often separate properties in the device). Now if you add a button to switch between free/sync, how does the knob know which property to display?

IMO what makes the Combinator so powerful is not simply copying one knob inside the combinator on the front panel, but in doing more than one thing at a time.
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joeyluck
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Post 03 Jan 2022

The suggestion I made to RS for this is to make the default value for a knob or button when it has one assignment to mirror that assignment. Then when you make a second assignment, it switches to 0-127.

It would be nice to be able to assign values as well for macros with multiple assignments, but I think that approach would at least fix the issue for many cases.

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selig
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Post 03 Jan 2022

joeyluck wrote:
03 Jan 2022
The suggestion I made to RS for this is to make the default value for a knob or button when it has one assignment to mirror that assignment. Then when you make a second assignment, it switches to 0-127.

It would be nice to be able to assign values as well for macros with multiple assignments, but I think that approach would at least fix the issue for many cases.
I would think the issue there is how to get that information out of an RE or VST.
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Loque
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Post 03 Jan 2022

selig wrote:
03 Jan 2022
joeyluck wrote:
03 Jan 2022
The suggestion I made to RS for this is to make the default value for a knob or button when it has one assignment to mirror that assignment. Then when you make a second assignment, it switches to 0-127.

It would be nice to be able to assign values as well for macros with multiple assignments, but I think that approach would at least fix the issue for many cases.
I would think the issue there is how to get that information out of an RE or VST.
Since in the automation it is available, it cannot be that big issue.
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deeplink
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Post 03 Jan 2022

As Selig said it may be tricky with controls that target more than one parameter.

What I was hoping for with the new combinator was an update to how the Combinator programmer reads the device within. Many targets are still defined as 0-127, whereas the Tooltip for the parameter is in hz or ms for example.

I guess that it's not a Combinator issue, rather the old devices themselves aren't able to send that kind of data, despite their corresponding Tooltips
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selig
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Post 03 Jan 2022

Loque wrote:
03 Jan 2022
selig wrote:
03 Jan 2022


I would think the issue there is how to get that information out of an RE or VST.
Since in the automation it is available, it cannot be that big issue.
I only see '%' in the sequencer when automating VSTs - is there something I'm missing here?
and for older legacy devices that read 0-127 (such as the MClass as in the OPs example) there is no way around it…
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Loque
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Post 03 Jan 2022

selig wrote:
03 Jan 2022
Loque wrote:
03 Jan 2022


Since in the automation it is available, it cannot be that big issue.
I only see '%' in the sequencer when automating VSTs - is there something I'm missing here?
I didnt checked all RE or VSTs, but i thought for RE it is available.
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selig
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Post 03 Jan 2022

Loque wrote:
03 Jan 2022
selig wrote:
03 Jan 2022


I only see '%' in the sequencer when automating VSTs - is there something I'm missing here?
I didnt checked all RE or VSTs, but i thought for RE it is available.
I would think a half-solution that only works for certain devices would not be satisfactory...
If they decide to update things I REALLY hope they start with the faders in the big mixer!
;)
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Clos3r
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Post 03 Jan 2022

selig wrote:
03 Jan 2022
I guess one big issue is what to do if you are controlling more than one parameter with a single knob.
For example, if you set a Combi knob to control two volume controls, one going up and one going down you have a simple crossfader (though not at all ideal, but bear with me). Since one control is going from off to full volume, and the other is going from full volume to off - which one should the Combinator knob display?
Or what if I want to open a filter and lower the level at the same time, does the knob display Hz or dB?
If the assignment contains two or more different parameters, then it should list all of them and let me chose what to display. As long as the device sends out automation data in Hz, db or ms, etc. it shouldn't be such a problem to mirror them in the Combinator.
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selig
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Post 04 Jan 2022

Clos3r wrote:
03 Jan 2022
selig wrote:
03 Jan 2022
I guess one big issue is what to do if you are controlling more than one parameter with a single knob.
For example, if you set a Combi knob to control two volume controls, one going up and one going down you have a simple crossfader (though not at all ideal, but bear with me). Since one control is going from off to full volume, and the other is going from full volume to off - which one should the Combinator knob display?
Or what if I want to open a filter and lower the level at the same time, does the knob display Hz or dB?
If the assignment contains two or more different parameters, then it should list all of them and let me chose what to display. As long as the device sends out automation data in Hz, db or ms, etc. it shouldn't be such a problem to mirror them in the Combinator.
Wouldnt it make more sense to allow setting the range and values yourself in those cases? If building a crossfader, neither actual value is at all useful, and neither is the 0-127 standard MIDI range (its not just for velocity, right?). Instead, it should read in percent 0-100 IMO.
If you ever work in reaktor this will immediately make sense!
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NMHindman
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Post 04 Jan 2022

selig wrote:
04 Jan 2022

Wouldnt it make more sense to allow setting the range and values yourself in those cases? If building a crossfader, neither actual value is at all useful, and neither is the 0-127 standard MIDI range (its not just for velocity, right?). Instead, it should read in percent 0-100 IMO.
If you ever work in reaktor this will immediately make sense!
Yes, an option to simply let the user define min/max values; could default at 0/127, but user could define these to display as 20/20000, or 0%-100%, etc.

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selig
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Post 05 Jan 2022

joeyluck wrote:
03 Jan 2022
The suggestion I made to RS for this is to make the default value for a knob or button when it has one assignment to mirror that assignment. Then when you make a second assignment, it switches to 0-127.

It would be nice to be able to assign values as well for macros with multiple assignments, but I think that approach would at least fix the issue for many cases.
Unfortunately not the issue the OP sites, because the MClass devices don’t use (send) frequency/gain/Q values. So even if this feature was implemented the specific use case mentioned would look pretty much the same!
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joeyluck
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Post 05 Jan 2022

I don't use MClass, so I didn't realize that Reason's own devices weren't fully integrated and not reflecting the values. That''s weird.

Here is an example of how other devices look:

Screen Shot 2022-01-05 at 12.28.19 PM.png

I think even if having flexibility to assign values, having the single assignments mirror the values would still be a handy starting point and would still work for many cases. Even in the case of the MClass, that still has values 0-1000 and +/- values. Perhaps users should report it as a bug if the values don't reflect the tooltips. That seems like a bug to me.
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