About Improving Reason's Internal DAW

[selig]

Ripple editing
Reaper = you can turn this on to have Reaper move all subsequent clips, so you don't have to manually select the back half of your song when inserting/removing time. This can be enabled per-track, or globally.
Reason = doesn't have this feature, you gotta do it manually..

Well, in Reason you can remove everything between the markers and everything else will slide over to fill the gap. So theres that…

[selig]

PLEASE UPDATE THE SEQUENCER-WORKFLOW.

If Reason Studios were going to copy another DAW's sequencer flow, which would you suggest they use as a base for their new sequencer?

I dont see these as necessarily connected. Reason could update their workflow and not copy any other DAW. Or they could copy some features from various DAWs and add some of their own. It’s not “either/or” IMO.

[guitfnky]

the 'if they add those features, they're just copying another DAW' argument is about as weird as it gets. I'm dating myself here, but nobody complained that car companies were copying others when their newest models have finally gotten power windows. it improves the experience--why would anyone oppose that?

Reason is Reason, and will continue to be, and feel like Reason, even if they add features.

[Creativemind]

How would an update only apply to Reason+ users if you're a Reason 12 upgrade user?

Not sure why you're asking, this has already been done.
R+ users got early, incremental access to Mimic, HD graphics and Combinator 2 before perpetual users could buy the new version.

I wasn't really, as the answer is, it wouldn't. If you're on 12 or Reason+ and a feature was added, it would be in a Reason update so both of you would get it straight away so Reason+ users wouldn't be getting anything sooner.

[Creativemind]

the 'if they add those features, they're just copying another DAW' argument is about as weird as it gets. I'm dating myself here, but nobody complained that car companies were copying others when their newest models have finally gotten power windows. it improves the experience--why would anyone oppose that?

Reason is Reason, and will continue to be, and feel like Reason, even if they add features.

I agree and people have stated that they don't want Reason to be convoluted but to me, I don't see how that would happen because if a few more things appeared in a menu, unless you open that menu, it wouldn't affect you. Same with other features, have more curves for automation but maybe bezier (as I think it is now) as default, so if you're happy with that you wouldn't need to right click or what have you to access the other 5 curve shapes etc. Apply my reasoning to other things.

[Eddi-16]

Its not about copy, damn, it feels like the people here searching for arguments that justify that they still not update the product, even now when the prices raised that much....I cant understand this approach at all.
However, it's not about copying stuff when you add basic work-features.

Like someone said it with the car example, the basic stuff you just need to drive is not a form of copying.

- Track folders
- Record workflow updates
- video support
- markers
- Mixer folders
- remote updates
- clip launcer

and so on...

It is not THAT much and I dont want to talk about "copying" DAWs with such basic features.

It's like you leave out the car glasses when you build a car and say:

"If I put those car glasses in now, I will copy other manufacturers, so I will not build my car with glasses. You can only drive 50 mph all the time."

Come on...

[Shoukz]

call me crazy, but after more than 20 years at using various sequencers, mainly on desktop, the best user experience I get in term of workflow, finding quick idea and intuitiveness is with tactil tablet, korg gadget (to compose / find ideas, melodies and chords) and nanostudio 2 (arranging, mixing, editing samples)

In various aspect they are overlimited, but to find the core of a track, melody, chord, rythm, it's just way more efficient than anything I tried,

and since they released a doctor rex device for korg gadget, i just wish they will release the full reason rack + RE for it.

[kuhliloach]

Workflow is key. Gadget is next gen. Feature-wise I believe Reason is ancient-level dead, and a total mess, and should learn to compete carefully with the leading DAWs which are Logic and Ableton. I think of a few devs in their own world, clueless, in a small room. Gems like pitch correction in Reason are rarely discussed or utilized I guess due to the DAW itself being shelved; I try to tell people there's a melodyne in there. With Logic as my main DAW the RRP lives and allows Reason to proceed in the modern world. Just get ready to freeze your RRP tracks if collaborating because NOBODY else has these plug-ins. They can all wonder where you got those cool sounds. I often reach for compressors, eq's, reverbs, Kuassa, and Noise Engineering stuff via RRP.

[integerpoet]

the 'if they add those features, they're just copying another DAW' argument is about as weird as it gets. I'm dating myself here, but nobody complained that car companies were copying others when their newest models have finally gotten power windows. it improves the experience--why would anyone oppose that?

I don't think "oppose" is quite the right word.

Software designers are often besieged by shrill demands for specific changes. Bad designers merely quiet the demands by making the specific changes. Good designers tease out the wants and needs behind the demands and address them in the best way they can think of. Sometimes, the best way they can think of doesn't closely resemble the specific demands.

But I suspect that's not what's going on in this thread anyway. Individual features probably aren't the issue; the list of capabilities probably is. People want to feel the DAW is advancing, that the list of capabilities is growing, that their ongoing emotional investment in the DAW is justified… and there isn't a ton of recent/ongoing evidence of that. And people find that disquieting.

[DaveyG]

People want to feel the DAW is advancing,

Spot on. Just give the DAW some love now and again.

[integerpoet]

the leading DAWs which are Logic and Ableton

When people find out I use Reason, they tell me I should try Logic and Live as if I hadn't already, as if I haven't been waiting literally decades for something fundamental about them to change, as if DAWs were a commodity. It's unintentionally insulting, but we should keep in mind that's a reflection on those people, not us. Peer pressure is for children.

[nooomy]

Still lots of Reason users who want a better Reason DAW or better workflow enhancements. I still say for those folks, they should identify the DAW out there that already does what you want and run RRP in it.

But if RS Inc. ever decided to improve the DAW, I say do something radically different and make something unique and very controversial. Maybe start with a hardware/groovebox sequencer paradigm and build on it from there. Would love to see a software version of the Yamaha RS7000 or a Roland groovebox but taking that idea into the 21st century somehow, controlling every track in Reason, but blurring the lines between composition, sound design and live performance but somehow different from Ableton Live.

Just an idea...just don't want to see what's already been done in other DAWs.

Ew why would you want the workflow of those old grooveboxes? Do you want a menu in a menu in a menu?
If you want menu diving you should try Cubase, it has a shit tone of menu in a menu stuff.

The reason the grooveboxes were abandon was because of their workflow was no fun.
I mean just look at this:

I don’t get you guys whining about the reason sequencer? I have used ableton alot and I can say the reason sequencer is waaay more fun and inspiring for me compared to the one in ableton.

The ableton has a great sequencer too but I would never want reason to try to replicate it.

[guitfnky]

the 'if they add those features, they're just copying another DAW' argument is about as weird as it gets. I'm dating myself here, but nobody complained that car companies were copying others when their newest models have finally gotten power windows. it improves the experience--why would anyone oppose that?

I don't think "oppose" is quite the right word.

I don’t know what else you would call arguing against doing a thing for a reason, other than “opposing” it. ‍♂️

[integerpoet]

The reason the grooveboxes were abandon was because of their workflow was no fun.
I mean just look at this:

Wow. This video relieves me of any romantic delusions I might have had about the good old days.

[integerpoet]

I don't think "oppose" is quite the right word.

I don’t know what else you would call arguing against doing a thing for a reason, other than “opposing” it. ‍♂️

I guess you have two options:

• Selectively quote the first line I wrote to try to win a perceived argument about the applicability of a word.
• Consider the subtleties I described in the two paragraphs that followed the first line.

Me, I'm here to learn and share rather than win, but the choice is yours.

[guitfnky]

I don’t know what else you would call arguing against doing a thing for a reason, other than “opposing” it. ‍♂️

I guess you have two options:

• Selectively quote the first line I wrote to try to win a perceived argument about the applicability of a word.
• Consider the subtleties I described in the two paragraphs that followed the first line.

Me, I'm here to learn and share rather than win, but the choice is yours.

I don’t see how either of those two paragraphs explain how opposing certain improvements is not opposing certain improvements—that’s why I didn’t quote them. they seem separate from the part I did quote.

as for “winning”, I have no idea what the hell that even means. so I guess I’m just very confused all around.

[scotward57]

Ew why would you want the workflow of those old grooveboxes? Do you want a menu in a menu in a menu?
If you want menu diving you should try Cubase, it has a shit tone of menu in a menu stuff.

The reason the grooveboxes were abandon was because of their workflow was no fun.

I'm sure Reason Studios can figure out how to make a hardware sequencer or groove box in software that could be fun and easy to use. Reason has known to do that. The DX7 was a pain to program, but Reason managed to create Algoritm that makes FM synthesis more fun, modern and powerful at the same time. So your argument doesn't hold.

As for the rest of you whining about Reason not being more like other DAWs, Reason answered that with RRP. No other music production software company is as generous or plays as nicely with their so-called competition as Reason Studios.

Just saying that there's no need for Reason to copycat what other DAWs are doing. They should do something different and unique. Let the whiners move on to other DAWs and force them to stop being so cheap and petty.

[zoidkirb]

Reason already have groovebox style rack devices though. Mostly Players.
If features can be implemented nicely into Players then that's where they will go.
A good example is midi step input, which used to be a popular request. Now that Polystep Sequencer is available I doubt that feature will ever be implemented in the main midi editor.

[Creativemind]

I think those sequencer workflow jobs are way on the back burner at this point. Heart breaking but there you have it.
I can’t even be bothered to list them at this point.
It’s almost as bad as talking about Covid politics!
Same old same old.

Ehhh, Reason 11 added multiple sequencer improvements. That's not ancient history, despite some the sentiments here.

All's I can do is laugh at that comment. Sorry.

[Creativemind]

Many of my requests are improvements to the rack itself.
So using rrp in another DAW isn't going to help.

As for the seven sequencer improvements for r11: that was basic stuff but essential. If only RS had just kept up that level of slow and steady sequencer improvements into r12.

Rack improvements won't help the Reason RACK Plug-In. Have you used it? not sure I follow your logic, no pun intended.

[Benedict]

Pee pee is for children.

Sorry, it was the most rational thing I could think to add to this.

LOL

[Creativemind]

I've used Reason standalone for many years. I quite like and am pretty comfortable with the DAW/sequencer side of things. There is a lot I love about it (ReGroove, Blocks, bits and pieces of the editing experience).

But I do have ideas for how to improve it!

There are a handful of things I'd like to see Reason borrow from Reaper:

Zoom in/out horizontally
Reaper = mouse wheel
Reason = Ctrl + Shift + mouse wheel

(I also prefer Reaper's positioning logic when zooming - I always end up having to scroll after zooming in Reason, which makes it even clunkier)

"Hand" tool (pan horizontal and vertical)
Reaper = Shift + middle click (press and hold)
Reason = U (toggle)

Zoom and pan/scroll flow all using the mouse wheel/middle button is much better IMO. Press and hold is much nicer for "Hand" tool. Plus "U" is a stretch for my left hand when in home position.

Markers
Reaper = press "M" to drop a marker at current position. Can rename/move/delete markers. Great for organizing songs.
Reason = feature doesn't exist. I use a workaround of blank clips with labels marking song sections. (As an aside, I do love Reason's "select a clip and hit P to set loop to clip and start playback"... I use that constantly)

Cursor
Reaper = playback and edit cursors are separate. This means you can do more complex editing (e.g., paste) while playback is happening.
Reason = only one cursor. Have to stop playback to paste.

Ripple editing
Reaper = you can turn this on to have Reaper move all subsequent clips, so you don't have to manually select the back half of your song when inserting/removing time. This can be enabled per-track, or globally.
Reason = doesn't have this feature, you gotta do it manually.

I wish there was a way to change/map key bindings. Doesn't have to be as extensive as Reaper, but I wish I could customize things a bit more. Ideally you could bind keystrokes to some of the F8 Tool Window functions. I would love to "randomize velocities", or "transpose +12" with a keystroke.

I'm sure there's more. I'm not exactly holding my breath for any of this =] But you can add me to the list of loyal Reason users who would love to see some attention paid to the built-in sequencer.

Good points and yes, Reaper nails a lot of things like you mentioned, it's definitely more elegant including (and yes I know this is unlikely to change) double clicking a parameter to reset it to it's default position is far more elegant and quick and requires one hand where as ctrl click requires 2 but with user assignable shortcuts as you mentioned, you could change it. I definitely would.

I also love how you can simply just hit S in Reaper to slice by Edit Cursor (Song Position Pointer in Reason) which I'd love to see in Reason.

[Creativemind]

D'you know what else is basic? non capitalisation of the start of sentences.

what the fuck does this have to do with anything?

It's sloppy looking.

[Creativemind]

Ripple editing
Reaper = you can turn this on to have Reaper move all subsequent clips, so you don't have to manually select the back half of your song when inserting/removing time. This can be enabled per-track, or globally.
Reason = doesn't have this feature, you gotta do it manually..

Well, in Reason you can remove everything between the markers and everything else will slide over to fill the gap. So theres that…

But ripple editing is far more than that.

[Creativemind]

Workflow is key. Gadget is next gen. Feature-wise I believe Reason is ancient-level dead, and a total mess, and should learn to compete carefully with the leading DAWs which are Logic and Ableton. I think of a few devs in their own world, clueless, in a small room. Gems like pitch correction in Reason are rarely discussed or utilized I guess due to the DAW itself being shelved; I try to tell people there's a melodyne in there. With Logic as my main DAW the RRP lives and allows Reason to proceed in the modern world. Just get ready to freeze your RRP tracks if collaborating because NOBODY else has these plug-ins. They can all wonder where you got those cool sounds. I often reach for compressors, eq's, reverbs, Kuassa, and Noise Engineering stuff via RRP.

I don't want to put down Pitch Correction in Reason as it's bloody brilliant but not at Melodyne level. It will only work on monophonic material for a start.