About Improving Reason's Internal DAW

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scotward57
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Post 14 Dec 2021

Still lots of Reason users who want a better Reason DAW or better workflow enhancements. I still say for those folks, they should identify the DAW out there that already does what you want and run RRP in it.

But if RS Inc. ever decided to improve the DAW, I say do something radically different and make something unique and very controversial. Maybe start with a hardware/groovebox sequencer paradigm and build on it from there. Would love to see a software version of the Yamaha RS7000 or a Roland groovebox but taking that idea into the 21st century somehow, controlling every track in Reason, but blurring the lines between composition, sound design and live performance but somehow different from Ableton Live.

Just an idea...just don't want to see what's already been done in other DAWs.

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Benedict
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Post 14 Dec 2021

To be fair Reason as a DAW already has Blocks which are somewhat unique as an overall proposition.

Something I love about Reason as a total DAW is the simplicity and Linearity (as in not Patterns unless you want to play Blocks) along with the integration that exceeds most other DAWs. Things like being able to see all the modules and settings in a chain is worth a lot to me. Things like how Automation Clips expand as I click to edit is worth a lot to me.

While people try to get features like another DAW, I would far rather see features that make workflow nicer overall, just as Audio Crossfades do that simply and elegantly (please don't list how DAW X does that 75.43% better coz Y) and the F2 EQ is just there.

:-)
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guitfnky
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Post 14 Dec 2021

or just add some basic features to what's already there. the Rack is what makes Reason great, and it's not going to stop standing out from the pack if they improve on what it already has. I use RRP in Live as my main DAW now, and it's a much better overall DAW workflow, but the integration with the Rack is of course nowhere near as satisfying, so that's not very helpful advice, IMO.

like Benedict says, Reason's simplicity and linearity are strengths. the obvious problem is it's TOO simple—to the point of being glaringly sub-basic in some pretty important areas. some quality of life tweaks would improve the experience greatly without overcomplicating things.
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huggermugger
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Post 14 Dec 2021

scotward57 wrote:
14 Dec 2021

I say do something radically different and make something unique and very controversial. Maybe start with a hardware/groovebox sequencer paradigm and build on it from there.
This is exactly where Reason started (Rebirth), and in the end, it's the reason they're so far behind. They clung to their self-contained ecosystem for many years before finally opening up to the 'outside' world (e.g. VSTs) and now they've got so much catching up to do that it appears to me they won't ever bother.

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Pepin
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Post 14 Dec 2021

guitfnky wrote:
14 Dec 2021
like Benedict says, Reason's simplicity and linearity are strengths. the obvious problem is it's TOO simple—to the point of being glaringly sub-basic in some pretty important areas. some quality of life tweaks would improve the experience greatly without overcomplicating things.
Agreed. I don't think the goal should be a massive redesign or feature-matching other software.
I'd rather see iterative improvements to the current workflow.
Personally, I'd like to see a few sequencer improvements (all non-controversial stuff, I think):
- MIDI comping
- Non-destructive quantize
- Capture MIDI

As far as RRP goes, I still don't find myself using it much. When I use Logic, I prefer using its built-in plugins and third party AUs since they feel better integrated. I don't find the benefits worth the drawbacks of wrapping each instrument in an RRP instance, hiding the contents of effect chains from the DAW, etc. If RRP had true multi-timbral support (assignable input channels), then I might reconsider.

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plaamook
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Post 14 Dec 2021

I think those sequencer workflow jobs are way on the back burner at this point. Heart breaking but there you have it.
I can’t even be bothered to list them at this point.
It’s almost as bad as talking about Covid politics!
Same old same old.
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Pepin
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Post 14 Dec 2021

plaamook wrote:
14 Dec 2021
I think those sequencer workflow jobs are way on the back burner at this point. Heart breaking but there you have it.
I can’t even be bothered to list them at this point.
It’s almost as bad as talking about Covid politics!
Same old same old.
Ehhh, Reason 11 added multiple sequencer improvements. That's not ancient history, despite some the sentiments here.

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plaamook
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Post 14 Dec 2021

Pepin wrote:
14 Dec 2021
plaamook wrote:
14 Dec 2021
I think those sequencer workflow jobs are way on the back burner at this point. Heart breaking but there you have it.
I can’t even be bothered to list them at this point.
It’s almost as bad as talking about Covid politics!
Same old same old.
Ehhh, Reason 11 added multiple sequencer improvements. That's not ancient history, despite some the sentiments here.
Yeah I know. They were very much appreciated and I’ve championed them on occasion. But even there some of the implementation was a bit half assed (Zoom) and still needs addressing.
And what did it cover? 20% of what needs doing as a generous estimate.
The new road map didn’t exactly prioritise further sequencer work, hence my previous post. And that was when they were feeling optimistic about tying R12 down by yule.
But I just filed yet another bug report today, so that’s how well the road map is going.

Anyway, they’ll get there. Eventually. But I figure we’ve got a few years before we see any action w workflow and sequencer, that’s all I’m saying.
Props bring props it’ll prob be way more amazing than we envisioned and frustratingly inadequate at the some time!
I love it all the same though.
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guitfnky
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Post 14 Dec 2021

Pepin wrote:
14 Dec 2021
plaamook wrote:
14 Dec 2021
I think those sequencer workflow jobs are way on the back burner at this point. Heart breaking but there you have it.
I can’t even be bothered to list them at this point.
It’s almost as bad as talking about Covid politics!
Same old same old.
Ehhh, Reason 11 added multiple sequencer improvements. That's not ancient history, despite some the sentiments here.
7 sequencer improvements, two years ago. 7. and none since. and they’re literally not listed on the roadmap except in a nebulous “maybe we might possibly consider this at a future date…potentially” comment. so yeah, very much on the back burner.
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zoidkirb
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Post 14 Dec 2021

Many of my requests are improvements to the rack itself.
So using rrp in another DAW isn't going to help.

As for the seven sequencer improvements for r11: that was basic stuff but essential. If only RS had just kept up that level of slow and steady sequencer improvements into r12.

djsmex
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Post 14 Dec 2021

I agree some small workflow improvements can make big differences to end users. Personally extending Remote to cover the browser, sequencer and other areas missed would mean less mouse clicks and more control surface action. This has great potential for accessibility and doesn't need a whole new code base to do it.
Other minor things I've seen people ask for like multiple sends for MIDI clock, cue points, automatic alt takes for midi loop recording, group tracks, all minor things but can make a big improvement for usability.
I don't believe Reason should just copy other DAWs, nor do I believe anything radical is needed just a few improvements.

jlgrimes
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Post 14 Dec 2021

guitfnky wrote:
14 Dec 2021
Pepin wrote:
14 Dec 2021


Ehhh, Reason 11 added multiple sequencer improvements. That's not ancient history, despite some the sentiments here.
7 sequencer improvements, two years ago. 7. and none since. and they’re literally not listed on the roadmap except in a nebulous “maybe we might possibly consider this at a future date…potentially” comment. so yeah, very much on the back burner.
Agreed.

I think they could crank out more improvements in minor release updates.

That's kind of where I feel other DAWS are moving faster. Many DAWS make alot of core DAW improvements in minor releases. Sometimes the minor releases can be better than major even.

With Reason +, I think they would get more perpetual people jumping on if they started making good DAW improvements with the minor releases but without that I'm very reluctant to get into plus as so far there has been little reason to go there. Sounds and patches are getting kind of saturated with Splice, plenty of VSTis, cheap sound libraries.

I think people do want new exciting workflows and probably would even be willing to try for a few months, if they add more unique DAW improvements or even play catch-up.

That said they must have alot of legacy code to sort out to be going this slow. I was looking forward for the browser improvements which should be a bigger priority for them as a good browser is needed to better go through the enormous amount of sounds people have accumulated through the years.

Hoboys
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Post 14 Dec 2021

djsmex wrote:
14 Dec 2021
...extending Remote to cover the browser, sequencer and other areas missed would mean less mouse clicks and more control surface action. This has great potential for accessibility and doesn't need a whole new code base to do it.
right? Having to mouse click those tiny buttons for Pitch Edit or Slice Edit a million times in each and every project is by far the biggest workflow killer for me. Track folders would also really help out.

gribbly
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Post 15 Dec 2021

I've used Reason standalone for many years. I quite like and am pretty comfortable with the DAW/sequencer side of things. There is a lot I love about it (ReGroove, Blocks, bits and pieces of the editing experience).

But I do have ideas for how to improve it!

There are a handful of things I'd like to see Reason borrow from Reaper:

Zoom in/out horizontally
Reaper = mouse wheel
Reason = Ctrl + Shift + mouse wheel

(I also prefer Reaper's positioning logic when zooming - I always end up having to scroll after zooming in Reason, which makes it even clunkier)

"Hand" tool (pan horizontal and vertical)
Reaper = Shift + middle click (press and hold)
Reason = U (toggle)

Zoom and pan/scroll flow all using the mouse wheel/middle button is much better IMO. Press and hold is much nicer for "Hand" tool. Plus "U" is a stretch for my left hand when in home position.

Markers
Reaper = press "M" to drop a marker at current position. Can rename/move/delete markers. Great for organizing songs.
Reason = feature doesn't exist. I use a workaround of blank clips with labels marking song sections. (As an aside, I do love Reason's "select a clip and hit P to set loop to clip and start playback"... I use that constantly)

Cursor
Reaper = playback and edit cursors are separate. This means you can do more complex editing (e.g., paste) while playback is happening.
Reason = only one cursor. Have to stop playback to paste.

Ripple editing
Reaper = you can turn this on to have Reaper move all subsequent clips, so you don't have to manually select the back half of your song when inserting/removing time. This can be enabled per-track, or globally.
Reason = doesn't have this feature, you gotta do it manually.

I wish there was a way to change/map key bindings. Doesn't have to be as extensive as Reaper, but I wish I could customize things a bit more. Ideally you could bind keystrokes to some of the F8 Tool Window functions. I would love to "randomize velocities", or "transpose +12" with a keystroke.

I'm sure there's more. I'm not exactly holding my breath for any of this =] But you can add me to the list of loyal Reason users who would love to see some attention paid to the built-in sequencer.
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plaamook
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Post 15 Dec 2021

Id love to see the reaction if they started rolling out incremental sequencer workflow updates to R+ users only, while the rest of us just get to wait.
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avasopht
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Post 15 Dec 2021

Just make it pluggable, while providing a curated channel for Reason DAW Extensions or something.
---

djsmex
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Post 16 Dec 2021

Some good ideas, many requests amount to the same thing even if called something different. For example, markers and cue points, track folders and group tracks, extending midi remote to cover the browser, sequencer, like hoboys said, pitch edit.
Although it would be impossible to have remote items for each note, clip etc, you could have remote items for the toolbar values, to select up/down/left/right, the tools, zooms and perhaps an enter to emulate clicking the currently selected item with the current tool. It may not be a complete remote solution for edit screens within the sequencer but some is better than none at all. For example currently you can not select a note lane, arm a track for recording, select a groove etc. These all need the mouse.

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Creativemind
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Post 16 Dec 2021

guitfnky wrote:
14 Dec 2021
or just add some basic features to what's already there. the Rack is what makes Reason great, and it's not going to stop standing out from the pack if they improve on what it already has. I use RRP in Live as my main DAW now, and it's a much better overall DAW workflow, but the integration with the Rack is of course nowhere near as satisfying, so that's not very helpful advice, IMO.

like Benedict says, Reason's simplicity and linearity are strengths. the obvious problem is it's TOO simple—to the point of being glaringly sub-basic in some pretty important areas. some quality of life tweaks would improve the experience greatly without overcomplicating things.
D'you know what else is basic? non capitalisation of the start of sentences. :lol:

I agree though, it is sub-basic, to me frustratingly so at times and it's looking like they've abandoned it at this point. I'm using the RRP in Reaper and loving it. Should get a free burger for using the phrase, "loving it". :lol:
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Creativemind
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Post 16 Dec 2021

plaamook wrote:
15 Dec 2021
Id love to see the reaction if they started rolling out incremental sequencer workflow updates to R+ users only, while the rest of us just get to wait.
How would an update only apply to Reason+ users if you're a Reason 12 upgrade user?
:reason:

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guitfnky
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Post 16 Dec 2021

Creativemind wrote:
16 Dec 2021
guitfnky wrote:
14 Dec 2021
or just add some basic features to what's already there. the Rack is what makes Reason great, and it's not going to stop standing out from the pack if they improve on what it already has. I use RRP in Live as my main DAW now, and it's a much better overall DAW workflow, but the integration with the Rack is of course nowhere near as satisfying, so that's not very helpful advice, IMO.

like Benedict says, Reason's simplicity and linearity are strengths. the obvious problem is it's TOO simple—to the point of being glaringly sub-basic in some pretty important areas. some quality of life tweaks would improve the experience greatly without overcomplicating things.
D'you know what else is basic? non capitalisation of the start of sentences. :lol:
what the fuck does this have to do with anything? 🙄
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plaamook
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Post 16 Dec 2021

Creativemind wrote:
16 Dec 2021
plaamook wrote:
15 Dec 2021
Id love to see the reaction if they started rolling out incremental sequencer workflow updates to R+ users only, while the rest of us just get to wait.
How would an update only apply to Reason+ users if you're a Reason 12 upgrade user?
No idea.
I’m referring to an idea that was kicking around here back when they introduced R+.
My guess is it could only really apply to devices which the rest would have to actually buy.
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Arrant
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Post 17 Dec 2021

Creativemind wrote:
16 Dec 2021
plaamook wrote:
15 Dec 2021
Id love to see the reaction if they started rolling out incremental sequencer workflow updates to R+ users only, while the rest of us just get to wait.
How would an update only apply to Reason+ users if you're a Reason 12 upgrade user?
Not sure why you're asking, this has already been done.
R+ users got early, incremental access to Mimic, HD graphics and Combinator 2 before perpetual users could buy the new version.

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plaamook
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Post 17 Dec 2021

Arrant wrote:
17 Dec 2021
Creativemind wrote:
16 Dec 2021


How would an update only apply to Reason+ users if you're a Reason 12 upgrade user?
Not sure why you're asking, this has already been done.
R+ users got early, incremental access to Mimic, HD graphics and Combinator 2 before perpetual users could buy the new version.
Tha'ts early access to a new version all together. R12. The beta testers ahd that too.
But rolling out R12.2.5 (for example) that only goes to R+ users wouldn'\t work as all 12 users would see the update at Reason start up.
That's my reasoning.
Unless R+ does some other thing but I don't have that and haven't tested it.
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Eddi-16
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Post 17 Dec 2021

PLEASE UPDATE THE SEQUENCER-WORKFLOW.

rootwheel
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Post 17 Dec 2021

Eddi-16 wrote:
17 Dec 2021
PLEASE UPDATE THE SEQUENCER-WORKFLOW.
If Reason Studios were going to copy another DAW's sequencer flow, which would you suggest they use as a base for their new sequencer?

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