Reason Studios shares their roadmap (September 7, 2021)

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earwig83
Posts: 186
Joined: 21 Mar 2015

Post 04 Nov 2021

Loque wrote:
04 Nov 2021
This thread is quite interesting.
When RS does not communicate, they get slapped.
If they communicate, they get slapped.
If the do not communicate enough or fast enough with enough details, they get slapped.

And in future, if they communicate fast with enough details, they get slapped for communicating instead of fixing bugs or implementing feature requests
ezgif.com-gif-maker (3).gif
they will continue to get slapped until they release something that works. THEY literally raised prices on a broken product, that speaks volumes. Snake Oil.

earwig83
Posts: 186
Joined: 21 Mar 2015

Post 04 Nov 2021

avasopht wrote:
03 Nov 2021
EnochLight wrote:
03 Nov 2021


:o :shock:

Please explain?
R12 was (and still is) presented as if it were a release-quality build, which it simply is not. The browser, as I understand it, is still slow.

This muddies the water for R+, as it does not (or at least doesn't seem to) provide access to older versions of Reason.

That some people are able to run R12 does not mean it's release-quality. They have what is most likely a memory corruption bug, which means it's still there.

On top of that, it doesn't provide a reasonable CPU (or low GPU) rendering. There is no reason whatsoever for this to be the case. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure they'll figure it out eventually. But until then, R12's GPU requirements are exorbitant for what it delivers.

Basically, R12 is not at release quality but is not being advertised as a payable alpha/beta (which is what it really is). Bonus points for removing the option to opt-out of analytics.
QVprod wrote:
03 Nov 2021
On the contrary, I expect they’ll improve everything in order to survive. It would be absolutely foolish to think the current state of things is ideal and I’m sure RS is aware of that. To me however, that just makes a bad release, not necessarily a sign of the end. Truly their pivots have rarely been smooth starting out.
I'm sure they'll improve the code. I've no doubts about that. Once they've figured out where the memory corruption is coming from it should be trivial to fix.

The problem is not the current state of the code, but the current state of their decision making.

I've used lots of software that have been released early while there are still bugs. But they're upfront about it. Reason Studios were not this time around, and that was a deceptive move. There's no way they didn't know about it. And even if they didn't, it's still being promoted as if there are no major bugs (and this isn't the sort of bug that is acceptable to have in a release build).

Reputable developers would do one of two things:
1. Delay the launch.
2. Release as an EAP or alpha/build (which could be paid for, so long as it's clearly communicated as being pre-release).

That's not what they've done, and they seem to have no intention whatsoever to properly inform their customers.

To make matters worse, they have also chosen not to streamline the refund procedure. At this point, there should be no questions asked. If they don't want to expend development resources, they could outsource it to a development house. It's chump change for them.
I appreciate seeing others calling out what is happening. Sometimes I feel like too many people on the forum are happy to just wait and wait for these things to be fixed. To justify the abhorrent behavior of this company in its current form. Everything about what RS is doing screams of FU to their customers. It's upsetting to be swindled like this. And I think you make a great point about the FU it also sends to the subscribers. They are basically paying to access a beta launch with no chance of being able to roll back to a stable release like we can.

earwig83
Posts: 186
Joined: 21 Mar 2015

Post 04 Nov 2021

QVprod wrote:
03 Nov 2021
avasopht wrote:
03 Nov 2021


I'm sure they'll improve the code. I've no doubts about that. Once they've figured out where the memory corruption is coming from it should be trivial to fix.

The problem is not the current state of the code, but the current state of their decision making.

I've used lots of software that have been released early while there are still bugs. But they're upfront about it. Reason Studios were not this time around, and that was a deceptive move. There's no way they didn't know about it. And even if they didn't, it's still being promoted as if there are no major bugs (and this isn't the sort of bug that is acceptable to have in a release build).

Reputable developers would do one of two things:
1. Delay the launch.
2. Release as an EAP or alpha/build (which could be paid for, so long as it's clearly communicated as being pre-release).

That's not what they've done, and they seem to have no intention whatsoever to properly inform their customers.

To make matters worse, they have also chosen not to streamline the refund procedure. At this point, there should be no questions asked. If they don't want to expend development resources, they could outsource it to a development house. It's chump change for them.
Agreed the decision making wasn’t great. What I mean though is that that’s not exactly out of the norm. I mentioned REs as another example. This is just the worst iteration of it. It’s the first time the Reason program itself was affected. It’s also the first Reason release under the new CEO which may add to things. Still, I think it’s too early for demise prophecies. If there was yet another release like this, I think that would be more telling. Granted they didn’t update the roadmap as of yet, but if they had instead pushed along with the roadmap without fixing the many bugs, I’d be more inclined to be concerned about future decision making.
I'd agree it is too early to say they will flat out crumble. I am definitely guilty of claiming such hyperbole. Though I do feel there is some merit to my fears. The new CEO is a classic example. It's like how restaurants "under new management" also frequently fail because they choose to not make the right changes and are really just milking something dry. But as someone else said in another comment. Nokia and other companies have fallen for resting on their laurels. So I see the same thing potentially happening to RS in time. As you said to one of the other comments, there is a lot of options for DAWs. That is a sad reality that I am not happy about having to consider. And still won't for the time being.

scotward57
Posts: 116
Joined: 28 Jul 2019

Post 04 Nov 2021

Loque wrote:
04 Nov 2021
This thread is quite interesting.
When RS does not communicate, they get slapped.
If they communicate, they get slapped.
If the do not communicate enough or fast enough with enough details, they get slapped.

And in future, if they communicate fast with enough details, they get slapped for communicating instead of fixing bugs or implementing feature requests
ezgif.com-gif-maker (3).gif
Are you really that bothered by customers venting their frustration with RS right now? What's the point in calling out inconsistencies or defending RS rolling out a buggy product?

earwig83
Posts: 186
Joined: 21 Mar 2015

Post 04 Nov 2021

scotward57 wrote:
04 Nov 2021
Loque wrote:
04 Nov 2021
This thread is quite interesting.
When RS does not communicate, they get slapped.
If they communicate, they get slapped.
If the do not communicate enough or fast enough with enough details, they get slapped.

And in future, if they communicate fast with enough details, they get slapped for communicating instead of fixing bugs or implementing feature requests
ezgif.com-gif-maker (3).gif
Are you really that bothered by customers venting their frustration with RS right now? What's the point in calling out inconsistencies or defending RS rolling out a buggy product?
Agree. it is very frustrating to see how complacent most forum users are. And it's not just here. Every garbage product seems to have a slew of individuals defending the bad decisions of the developers/businesses on other forums for other products. Cyberpunk was a great example.

And people defend these companies, FOR FREE! Let's just get a low sodium thread going for those that don't want to commiserate with the rest of us who are peeved. hahah

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joeyluck
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Post 04 Nov 2021

30 day trials are back (no longer just 7 days), now for $1.

30 day trial for $1.png
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QVprod
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Post 04 Nov 2021

earwig83 wrote:
04 Nov 2021
QVprod wrote:
03 Nov 2021


Agreed the decision making wasn’t great. What I mean though is that that’s not exactly out of the norm. I mentioned REs as another example. This is just the worst iteration of it. It’s the first time the Reason program itself was affected. It’s also the first Reason release under the new CEO which may add to things. Still, I think it’s too early for demise prophecies. If there was yet another release like this, I think that would be more telling. Granted they didn’t update the roadmap as of yet, but if they had instead pushed along with the roadmap without fixing the many bugs, I’d be more inclined to be concerned about future decision making.
I'd agree it is too early to say they will flat out crumble. I am definitely guilty of claiming such hyperbole. Though I do feel there is some merit to my fears. The new CEO is a classic example. It's like how restaurants "under new management" also frequently fail because they choose to not make the right changes and are really just milking something dry. But as someone else said in another comment. Nokia and other companies have fallen for resting on their laurels. So I see the same thing potentially happening to RS in time. As you said to one of the other comments, there is a lot of options for DAWs. That is a sad reality that I am not happy about having to consider. And still won't for the time being.
I think my perspective may be different because I’m a multi daw user. Despite having other options on my computer, I still keep coming back. I can even use them together. Unlike Nokia, I don’t see RS resting on their laurels. They’re trying new things but in this case it wasn’t executed well. Fix the bugs and we’re back to the same place we were with R11; some people liking the new stuff and others primarily wishing for a better sequencer. So far new management has also brought us more transparency and at least a concept of bringing more value more frequently so it doesn’t have to be a sign of failure.

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Billy+
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Post 04 Nov 2021

joeyluck wrote:
04 Nov 2021
30 day trials are back (no longer just 7 days), now for $1.
That's one way to look at it, the other way would be free trials are gone.......

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BananaSkins
Posts: 439
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Post 04 Nov 2021

Billy+ wrote:
04 Nov 2021
joeyluck wrote:
04 Nov 2021
30 day trials are back (no longer just 7 days), now for $1.
That's one way to look at it, the other way would be free trials are gone.......
What happens after 30 days - considering they now have your credit card details?

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QVprod
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Post 04 Nov 2021

BananaSkins wrote:
04 Nov 2021
Billy+ wrote:
04 Nov 2021


That's one way to look at it, the other way would be free trials are gone.......
What happens after 30 days - considering they now have your credit card details?
Like other subscriptions, you cancel before the 30 days is up. It says “cancel anytime”

I’d agree though that some sort of free trial should exist. One of the reasons I never got into Cubase was having to buy a dongle to do it. Granted this is only $1, but it does put a slight barrier to someone just wanting to get a general feel of the program itself before spending money.

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Billy+
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Post 04 Nov 2021

BananaSkins wrote:
04 Nov 2021
What happens after 30 days - considering they now have your credit card details?
If you don't cancel on time then you get charged €$£20 for the next month..
QVprod wrote:
04 Nov 2021
Like other subscriptions, you cancel before the 30 days is up. It says “cancel anytime”

I’d agree though that some sort of free trial should exist. One of the reasons I never got into Cubase was having to buy a dongle to do it. Granted this is only $1, but it does put a slight barrier to someone just wanting to get a general feel of the program itself before spending money.
I think you can still sign up for an account and hunt down the install and run it in demo mode but you have to create an account without clicking on the trial button as it's a plus trial not a demo anymore.

but it takes more effort than it used to, plus it's not really the same level of demo as lots of the devices are addons via companion rather than included within the demo mode. 30 days for a buck is reasonable but it's definitely the end of the free trial version which is a shame especially given the current issues that lots are experiencing.

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EnochLight
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Post 04 Nov 2021

earwig83 wrote:
04 Nov 2021
Agree. it is very frustrating to see how complacent most forum users are.
How is anyone being "complacent" here? I don't think anyone is really truly defending the apparent silence, but after pages and pages of people whining and b itch ing about it, let's just say it gets old. I'll be the first to agree that the R12 rollout was fumbled, and I'll also agree that a "roadmap update" is long overdue since the first planned deadline wasn't met. But it's not like they've been 100% silent - for the third time, the CEO himself admitted they're behind at the end of October. ffs
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

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avasopht
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Post 04 Nov 2021

EnochLight wrote:
04 Nov 2021
... but after pages and pages of people whining and b itch ing about it, let's just say it gets old. I'll be the first to agree that the R12 rollout was fumbled, and I'll also agree that a "roadmap update" is long overdue since the first planned deadline wasn't met. But it's not like they've been 100% silent - for the third time, the CEO himself admitted they're behind at the end of October. ffs
1. For some people, this will be their first time expressing this on a public forum. Nothing good can come from invalidating their experience.
2. It's not their fault that there are pages and pages of this.
3. It is your responsibility (especially as a moderator) to treat each person's criticism (which is not whining), whining, complaints, befuddlement, or whatever with the respect it deserves.
4. Invalidating people's experiences is destructive behaviour and really not good conduct.

Don't conflate criticism with whining. They're two very different things. Mischaracterising people like that just because you're tired creates a toxic environment. As a moderator you have to apply more restraint.
---

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avasopht
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Post 04 Nov 2021

joeyluck wrote:
04 Nov 2021
30 day trials are back (no longer just 7 days), now for $1.


30 day trial for $1.png
Well not exactly, but yes. This is a trial for R+, which means they get all devices and access to sound packs.

I think this is much better than 7 days for free, because with 30 days you have more time to tinker with it. I often find my trials have timed out before I've even had a chance to try them out.
---

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joeyluck
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Post 04 Nov 2021

avasopht wrote:
04 Nov 2021
joeyluck wrote:
04 Nov 2021
30 day trials are back (no longer just 7 days), now for $1.


30 day trial for $1.png
Well not exactly, but yes. This is a trial for R+, which means they get all devices and access to sound packs.

I think this is much better than 7 days for free, because with 30 days you have more time to tinker with it. I often find my trials have timed out before I've even had a chance to try them out.
What do you mean by not exactly. The trial for R+ was initially 30 days, then it switched to 7, now it is 30 days. Or do you mean that now that it is $1 it technically isn't a trial? I would understand that argument.

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joeyluck
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Post 04 Nov 2021

Billy+ wrote:
04 Nov 2021
BananaSkins wrote:
04 Nov 2021
What happens after 30 days - considering they now have your credit card details?
If you don't cancel on time then you get charged €$£20 for the next month..
QVprod wrote:
04 Nov 2021
Like other subscriptions, you cancel before the 30 days is up. It says “cancel anytime”

I’d agree though that some sort of free trial should exist. One of the reasons I never got into Cubase was having to buy a dongle to do it. Granted this is only $1, but it does put a slight barrier to someone just wanting to get a general feel of the program itself before spending money.
I think you can still sign up for an account and hunt down the install and run it in demo mode but you have to create an account without clicking on the trial button as it's a plus trial not a demo anymore.

but it takes more effort than it used to, plus it's not really the same level of demo as lots of the devices are addons via companion rather than included within the demo mode. 30 days for a buck is reasonable but it's definitely the end of the free trial version which is a shame especially given the current issues that lots are experiencing.
Yeah I haven't looked around the site much recently, but it would definitely be good if they highlighted the demo mode of Reason and stepped the user through getting it installed. That would also allow them the opportunity to distinguish what the demo mode provides (essentially a locked version of Reason perpetual) and what the user gets with R+. It would also help with critics who will complain about a paywall to try Reason, which isn't the case. The $1 trial is still way more than we used to get. Others of us had always had to use demo mode to try Reason before.

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avasopht
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Post 04 Nov 2021

joeyluck wrote:
04 Nov 2021

What do you mean by not exactly. The trial for R+ was initially 30 days, then it switched to 7, now it is 30 days. Or do you mean that now that it is $1 it technically isn't a trial? I would understand that argument.
Oh no, I'm not trying to make an argument against it.

I just meant that this is a trial of R+ and not Reason (ergo, you also get to try out all of the devices instead of just regular Reason). I've totally forgotten about the 30-day R+ trial. Feels like it was always 7-days.
---

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joeyluck
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Post 04 Nov 2021

avasopht wrote:
04 Nov 2021
joeyluck wrote:
04 Nov 2021

What do you mean by not exactly. The trial for R+ was initially 30 days, then it switched to 7, now it is 30 days. Or do you mean that now that it is $1 it technically isn't a trial? I would understand that argument.
Oh no, I'm not trying to make an argument against it.

I just meant that this is a trial of R+ and not Reason (ergo, you also get to try out all of the devices instead of just regular Reason). I've totally forgotten about the 30-day R+ trial. Feels like it was always 7-days.
Gotcha. Yeah I didn't say otherwise.

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EnochLight
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Post 04 Nov 2021

avasopht wrote:
04 Nov 2021
As a moderator you have to apply more restraint.
Image
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avasopht
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Post 04 Nov 2021

joeyluck wrote:
04 Nov 2021
Gotcha. Yeah I didn't say otherwise.
I wasn't suggesting you were. I was just pointing out the detail as a "Reason trial" has historically meant a trial or Reason.

The first thing I thought was that I was sure the Reason demo still worked and then realized that it was an R+ trial so it's a different thing.

That was all. Wasn't trying to argue, disprove or suggest you were saying or implying something or anything.
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avasopht
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Post 04 Nov 2021

EnochLight wrote:
04 Nov 2021
Image
🤮 yeah ... if restraint came in liquid form ... ... that would be it 🤣
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plaamook
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Post 04 Nov 2021

EnochLight wrote:
04 Nov 2021
avasopht wrote:
04 Nov 2021
As a moderator you have to apply more restraint.
Image
I’m saving that one for future use. 👍
Perpetual Reason 12 Beta Tester :reason:

You can check out my music here.
https://m.soundcloud.com/ericholmofficial
Or here.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC73uZZ ... 8jqUubzsQg

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plaamook
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Post 04 Nov 2021

I think most companies hold their products hostage ultimately.
As an Apple user especially, you get used to it. Tech developed over years by many many people pimped for someone else’s gain. It’s awful to watch but it’s everywhere.
If you have the stomach for it you just wait it out I guess. Things come around.
I find it useful to separate the company from the product for exactly this reason.
Like how I listen to music made by people who’s political views I disagree with for example. They might be seen to hold their music hostage.
In a perfect world I’d have my own little AI writing my music software. And 3D printing everything else of value to me.
Stick it to the man.
Or woman.
Or whatever.
Perpetual Reason 12 Beta Tester :reason:

You can check out my music here.
https://m.soundcloud.com/ericholmofficial
Or here.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC73uZZ ... 8jqUubzsQg

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BananaSkins
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Post 04 Nov 2021

plaamook wrote:
04 Nov 2021
EnochLight wrote:
04 Nov 2021


Image
I’m saving that one for future use. 👍
I've saved the one he originally posted 1st then deleted... :puf_bigsmile:

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joeyluck
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Post 04 Nov 2021

avasopht wrote:
04 Nov 2021
joeyluck wrote:
04 Nov 2021
Gotcha. Yeah I didn't say otherwise.
I wasn't suggesting you were. I was just pointing out the detail as a "Reason trial" has historically meant a trial or Reason.

The first thing I thought was that I was sure the Reason demo still worked and then realized that it was an R+ trial so it's a different thing.

That was all. Wasn't trying to argue, disprove or suggest you were saying or implying something or anything.
Got it. Yeah demo mode has never left. You can still run Reason in demo mode. Reason trials since January have been based on Reason+ and the image I posted shows "try Reason+ for $1".

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