Reason Studios shares their roadmap (September 7, 2021)

[earwig83]

To be fair, I've been seeing prophecies of Reason's doom since version 7 at least. Ernst was still at the helm. Before it was for not keeping up with the times. Now it's for doing exactly that.

and that's why i think it is likely, it's been a steady decline since then, despite some nice features being added along the way.

[earwig83]

So basically Reason Studios has defaulted back to the old behavior of Propellerhead Reason with No Transparency and the long bouts of silence before any updates/upgrades...smh

Well you can hardly blame them given the recent angsty "Where is my October update?" complaining thread. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Stop protecting loser corporations dude. The thread is perfectly logical and rightfully angsty. Don't forget they raised the price on this awful R12 update. It doesn't even work properly. They failed on 12 harder than any previous failure and they should be embarrassed. Some people are literally saying "maybe it will be fixed by next year". When is it acceptable to buy a product that is broken and have to wait a year for it to correct? And even if someone wants a refund, go through a lengthy wait period for it. Iif anyone here thinks that is normal or fine, well god help us all.

I had an issue with Rob Papen VST recently, emailed them, replied overnight! Other companies as well. I'm sorry but ReasonStudios are really dropping the ball if you are measuring their performance properly and compared to other brands out there. RS only care about themselves now and the bottom line and even that they can't do well.

[earwig83]

Well you can hardly blame them given the recent angsty "Where is my October update?" complaining thread. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Agreed but this just shows how much users love Reason and have such high expectations for the software which they should especially when most of us have invested a lot of our time and money in Reason 12 only to experience these unexpected/disappointing results. I still have high hopes/high regards for the software & I believe they will bounce back from this very soon like this Month(November)...

Exactly, this is the point. We have rightful expectations and they are not performing to a standard anymore and trying to white wash it with bogus marketing.

[Loque]

...
I had an issue with Rob Papen VST recently, emailed them, replied overnight! Other companies as well...

While i agree to the mostly fast response from Rob Papen, i have bugs which are not yet fixed and every time i touch a device from Rob Papen i find a bug, so they are currently collecting a lot of dust...

[EnochLight]

I really think this company and platform is likely doomed long term with the approach the venture capital fund era has been taking.

I don't think they will exist 10 years from now. It's obvious the decisions are not made by the developers who made this a popular app.

Thankfully, there is a veritable truckload of other DAW's to choose from - and there likely always will be. But as mentioned, people have long predicted the doom and gloom of Reason for well over 10 years now. That said, according to RS, Reason now has as many licensed users as ever in its history, so it's likely they'll survive.

They flat out lied about the R12 launch and R+. That's significant.

Please explain?

I had an issue with Rob Papen VST recently, emailed them, replied overnight!

Rob Papen is literally a 1-3 man operation. Hard to compare.

RS only care about themselves now and the bottom line and even that they can't do well.

If you think any company on the planet don't care about the bottom line and their own survival more than anything else, you're either being intentionally obtuse or naive.

[QVprod]

To be fair, I've been seeing prophecies of Reason's doom since version 7 at least. Ernst was still at the helm. Before it was for not keeping up with the times. Now it's for doing exactly that.

The RE shop hasn't been hot since VSTs were introduced, and even before that it was pretty slow since the format was fairly unfinished at launch. Sound familiar? Reason 12?

I think the bugs are very unfortunate, and they clearly have a lot of work to do after switching to a new way of handling releases. But I'd be surprised to still see these issues in the next year. Unless you consider an optional subscription to be an issue. In which case, all DAWs and several plugin makers would be doomed since that's where the market is going now. Pro Tools, Studio One, Waves, Slate Digital, Output...etc...

Sure, there are always people predicting wars, recessions, etc. Doesn't mean they don't happen.

See, this time around, there have been significant events that greatly increase the likelihood.

They flat out lied about the R12 launch and R+. That's significant.

There's a big difference between someone predicting doom because they want VSTs, and a prediction based on factors that are significant and likely to decrease revenue, loyalty and trust.

It's not correct to just dismiss everything, otherwise that implies they could survive without improving any features, since it's just doom and gloom, right? Now I'm sure you don't think that, but that's what dismissing everything implies.

On the contrary, I expect they’ll improve everything in order to survive. It would be absolutely foolish to think the current state of things is ideal and I’m sure RS is aware of that. To me however, that just makes a bad release, not necessarily a sign of the end. Truly their pivots have rarely been smooth starting out.

[MuttReason]

Companies fail when the problems they need to fix become too numerous and too complex to manage simultaneously, they lose momentum and focus and then, ultimately, they lose the trust and confidence of their employees, shareholders, suppliers, business partners - and customers. I've worked for two companies that have gone through that death cycle, both of them massive multinationals. It's a horrible experience, and the signs of impending doom are pretty easy to recognise.

Is RS at that point today? No, I don't think so. Not.... yet, anyway. But the tech sector is pretty brutal.... if you miss out on an important technology cycle (e.g. Nokia vs iPhone) or seriously screw up a major release and don't get back on track quickly while your competitors move ahead without stumbles, it is extremely difficult to regain momentum. RS (and Verdane) will know that, completely. They will know that they have a narrow window in time to get v12 into as good a state as prior Reason releases when the company had a reputation for solid coding skills and super reliable product.

The problems with v12 are NOT the same as issues with previous versions when (for example) the Props decided to avoid VSTs, or when they said Reason was a MIDI-only product and Record was for audio. Sure, people predicted the death of Reason back then, but I always thought those predictions were garbage. The Props made active and considered business decisions that may have been questionable at the time, but at least the product they shipped worked as advertised out of the box, and (mostly) from day one. Reason may not have had everything we wanted it to have, but in previous releases it did exactly what was promised, solidly and consistently. If you bought into the Reason way of doing things (and I did, happily) you knew what you were getting, you knew what it could do, and you knew it would work flawlessly every time you started it up. Reason was like a hardware synth; there were things it couldn't do because it wasn't designed to do those things, but what it DID do, it did perfectly. I don't think anyone could say that about v12, even people whose experience is more positive than some on this board.

At a human level, RS is a small business with not that many employees. I'm sure the people at RS are busting their balls and pulling very long days to try to put this right. It's really hard when stuff doesn't go accordingly to plan and you're scrambling to work out why the bloody product isn't working properly like it should. Exhausting, in fact, and demoralising. And they will know that if by (say) the end of March (very latest backstop IMO), the serious bugs and flaws remain despite their best efforts, then they're on a downwards slope that few companies ever come back from. I can only wish them all the best at this point... and hope they stick with it, and come good.

[avasopht]

They flat out lied about the R12 launch and R+. That's significant.

Please explain?

R12 was (and still is) presented as if it were a release-quality build, which it simply is not. The browser, as I understand it, is still slow.

This muddies the water for R+, as it does not (or at least doesn't seem to) provide access to older versions of Reason.

That some people are able to run R12 does not mean it's release-quality. They have what is most likely a memory corruption bug, which means it's still there.

On top of that, it doesn't provide a reasonable CPU (or low GPU) rendering. There is no reason whatsoever for this to be the case. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure they'll figure it out eventually. But until then, R12's GPU requirements are exorbitant for what it delivers.

Basically, R12 is not at release quality but is not being advertised as a payable alpha/beta (which is what it really is). Bonus points for removing the option to opt-out of analytics.

On the contrary, I expect they’ll improve everything in order to survive. It would be absolutely foolish to think the current state of things is ideal and I’m sure RS is aware of that. To me however, that just makes a bad release, not necessarily a sign of the end. Truly their pivots have rarely been smooth starting out.

I'm sure they'll improve the code. I've no doubts about that. Once they've figured out where the memory corruption is coming from it should be trivial to fix.

The problem is not the current state of the code, but the current state of their decision making.

I've used lots of software that have been released early while there are still bugs. But they're upfront about it. Reason Studios were not this time around, and that was a deceptive move. There's no way they didn't know about it. And even if they didn't, it's still being promoted as if there are no major bugs (and this isn't the sort of bug that is acceptable to have in a release build).

Reputable developers would do one of two things:
1. Delay the launch.
2. Release as an EAP or alpha/build (which could be paid for, so long as it's clearly communicated as being pre-release).

That's not what they've done, and they seem to have no intention whatsoever to properly inform their customers.

To make matters worse, they have also chosen not to streamline the refund procedure. At this point, there should be no questions asked. If they don't want to expend development resources, they could outsource it to a development house. It's chump change for them.

[kitekrazy]

I really think this company and platform is likely doomed long term with the approach the venture capital fund era has been taking.

I don't think they will exist 10 years from now. It's obvious the decisions are not made by the developers who made this a popular app.

Thankfully, there is a veritable truckload of other DAW's to choose from - and there likely always will be. But as mentioned, people have long predicted the doom and gloom of Reason for well over 10 years now. That said, according to RS, Reason now has as many licensed users as ever in its history, so it's likely they'll survive.

They flat out lied about the R12 launch and R+. That's significant.

Please explain?

I had an issue with Rob Papen VST recently, emailed them, replied overnight!

Rob Papen is literally a 1-3 man operation. Hard to compare.

RS only care about themselves now and the bottom line and even that they can't do well.

If you think any company on the planet don't care about the bottom line and their own survival more than anything else, you're either being intentionally obtuse or naive.

Every developer probably makes that claim.

[QVprod]

On the contrary, I expect they’ll improve everything in order to survive. It would be absolutely foolish to think the current state of things is ideal and I’m sure RS is aware of that. To me however, that just makes a bad release, not necessarily a sign of the end. Truly their pivots have rarely been smooth starting out.

I'm sure they'll improve the code. I've no doubts about that. Once they've figured out where the memory corruption is coming from it should be trivial to fix.

The problem is not the current state of the code, but the current state of their decision making.

I've used lots of software that have been released early while there are still bugs. But they're upfront about it. Reason Studios were not this time around, and that was a deceptive move. There's no way they didn't know about it. And even if they didn't, it's still being promoted as if there are no major bugs (and this isn't the sort of bug that is acceptable to have in a release build).

Reputable developers would do one of two things:
1. Delay the launch.
2. Release as an EAP or alpha/build (which could be paid for, so long as it's clearly communicated as being pre-release).

That's not what they've done, and they seem to have no intention whatsoever to properly inform their customers.

To make matters worse, they have also chosen not to streamline the refund procedure. At this point, there should be no questions asked. If they don't want to expend development resources, they could outsource it to a development house. It's chump change for them.

Agreed the decision making wasn’t great. What I mean though is that that’s not exactly out of the norm. I mentioned REs as another example. This is just the worst iteration of it. It’s the first time the Reason program itself was affected. It’s also the first Reason release under the new CEO which may add to things. Still, I think it’s too early for demise prophecies. If there was yet another release like this, I think that would be more telling. Granted they didn’t update the roadmap as of yet, but if they had instead pushed along with the roadmap without fixing the many bugs, I’d be more inclined to be concerned about future decision making.

[Hoboys]

Today my wife came up to me and asked why my software was in demo mode and why my new computer was overloaded.

howhardisthistofix.png (33.31 KiB) Viewed 6362 times

I found on this forum that this bug has been known about for over a month. I checked the Help section and it said Reason was up to date.

Excuse me, but is this really so hard to fix?
I see this every day when I load the program. Please...

[jaeproduced]

Today my wife came up to me and asked why my software was in demo mode and why my new computer was overloaded.

howhardisthistofix.png

I found on this forum that this bug has been known about for over a month. I checked the Help section and it said Reason was up to date.

Excuse me, but is this really so hard to fix?
I see this every day when I load the program. Please...

I can't even read or tell my DSP overload level because of this update error let's hope this horror show ends this month...

[guitfnky]

Today my wife came up to me and asked why my software was in demo mode and why my new computer was overloaded.

howhardisthistofix.png

I found on this forum that this bug has been known about for over a month. I checked the Help section and it said Reason was up to date.

Excuse me, but is this really so hard to fix?
I see this every day when I load the program. Please...

unfortunately they’ve had bigger fish to fry. they’ve acknowledged this one and it’ll be included in a larger update with (hopefully) a host of other fixes, and (hopefully) some actual improvements, and will happen (hopefully) soon.

[R303]

Of course, there are more important things right now than this "stupid" roadmap. But communication really needs to be improved...
They can only do that because the product is not so bad and I always feel compelled to come here.

[scotward57]

So sad to see all of this frustration. Was on the fence many times whether to upgrade to R+ or R12. But in the end I chose to stick with my Logic Pro and R11 Suite combo. I basically have everything I need but really wanted to delve into the Combinator 2 experience. So far it appears to be not worth it, at least right now.

[cgijoe]

I feel you scotward57.

I upgraded to 12 before the upgrade bump because I was making some cool new Combinator wrappers for my often used vsts, which I really wanted to keep access to (I'm really happy with what I did to VulfComp, and even prefer my re-design over the VST implementation, especially in Reason). That being said, was kind of bummed to see I only gained Mimic as a new device. I'm kind of regretting the purchase realizing all I got was a new combo and one new synth. Upgraded graphics are nice, but as a music making application, shouldn't be a showcase feature of a major upgrade - same as a browser - these are necessary utilities that will inevitably be upgraded from time to time.

Regardless, you can lump me in the ride or die Reason crowd - I just can't remember being more bummed by an upgrade after a month (like why not throw in a a few months of R+ with a purchase).

My hunch is some kind of PR update by the end of the week, at least regarding where they're at with the roadmap, even if it's a blog post, mention here, or come's up in a stream.

[Loque]

This thread is quite interesting.
When RS does not communicate, they get slapped.
If they communicate, they get slapped.
If the do not communicate enough or fast enough with enough details, they get slapped.

And in future, if they communicate fast with enough details, they get slapped for communicating instead of fixing bugs or implementing feature requests

ezgif.com-gif-maker (3).gif (957.67 KiB) Viewed 6246 times

[EnochLight]

This thread is quite interesting.
When RS does not communicate, they get slapped.
If they communicate, they get slapped.
If the do not communicate enough or fast enough with enough details, they get slapped.

And in future, if they communicate fast with enough details, they get slapped for communicating instead of fixing bugs or implementing feature requests
ezgif.com-gif-maker (3).gif

^^ THIS ^^

[whitewolfmusic]

This thread is quite interesting.
When RS does not communicate, they get slapped.
If they communicate, they get slapped.
If the do not communicate enough or fast enough with enough details, they get slapped.

And in future, if they communicate fast with enough details, they get slapped for communicating instead of fixing bugs or implementing feature requests
ezgif.com-gif-maker (3).gif

You do realize how little time it takes to create a new blog entry with a few generic but informative sentences about "Hello dear users, the update we intended to ship in October needs a bit more time to be as good as possible and will not be released this month. Thank you for your patience while we work hard to deliver a great update." Blah, blah. blah. Just a couple of lines of information you can slap together in a few minutes. This would be respectful and save excited users like me literally weeks of guesswork and impatient waiting. This has nothing to do with "they can't do it right, they'll get slapped whatever they do". This is merely the absolute basics of communication.

[EnochLight]

You do realize how little time it takes to create a new blog entry with a few generic but informative sentences about "Hello dear users, the update we intended to ship in October needs a bit more time to be as good as possible and will not be released this month. Thank you for your patience while we work hard to deliver a great update." Blah, blah. blah. Just a couple of lines of information you can slap together in a few minutes. This would be respectful and save excited users like me literally weeks of guesswork and impatient waiting. This has nothing to do with "they can't do it right, they'll get slapped whatever they do". This is merely the absolute basics of communication.

As has been pointed out already, the CEO personally stated in a Tweet when asked - before the end of October - essentially this. But I get that it wasn’t neatly packaged into a formal blog post on their website.

That said, your response pretty much affirms Loque’s point.

[Hoboys]

This thread is quite interesting.
When RS does not communicate, they get slapped.
If they communicate, they get slapped.
If the do not communicate enough or fast enough with enough details, they get slapped.

And in future, if they communicate fast with enough details, they get slapped for communicating instead of fixing bugs or implementing feature requests
ezgif.com-gif-maker (3).gif

You almost make it sound like they are the victims here Imagine buying a phone that was more expensive, but slower than the previous model, with a blotch of broken pixels and a few buttons missing right out of the box. Turning all the cheeks they've got would be common courtesy at this point. And how about this CEO trying to make it look like everything is fine, only commenting failure on his personal Twitter instead of the official website or this forum. Pretty sure he will delete those later, like nothing ever happened. I find all of this quite slappable, actually.

[avasopht]

This thread is quite interesting.
When RS does not communicate, they get slapped.
If they communicate, they get slapped.
If the do not communicate enough or fast enough with enough details, they get slapped.

And in future, if they communicate fast with enough details, they get slapped for communicating instead of fixing bugs or implementing feature requests
ezgif.com-gif-maker (3).gif

There's a big difference between:

1. Do something reasonable, get slammed by people who will always put things down.
2. Do something inherently wrong, and get criticized for what was done wrong.

Yes, there will always be people who hate, who will say your music doesn't sound good because they are bitter people. But that doesn't mean all constructive criticism is invalid or irrelevant. Some people sound awful. There are things I've not done on my tracks. Some of my beats don't "bounce".

So sure, no matter what they do, unreasonable people will slam them for it.

You have to differentiate by evaluating the merit rather than just categorizing responses as just for/against or positive/negative.

Are you suggesting they have done absolutely NOTHING wrong with the R12/R+ launch? That they are not deserving of ANY criticism? And that they have and are making the BEST decisions given the situation? Because that's what outright dismissing all criticism would imply.

[R303]

Well, it's good to point out mistakes in communication.
The roadmap was also connected with a hefty price increase. Yes, I know, the first ever...
But the price increase was not neglected. Or they could say... sorry guys, we didn't make it in time to raise the prices

[earwig83]

I really think this company and platform is likely doomed long term with the approach the venture capital fund era has been taking.

I don't think they will exist 10 years from now. It's obvious the decisions are not made by the developers who made this a popular app.

Thankfully, there is a veritable truckload of other DAW's to choose from - and there likely always will be. But as mentioned, people have long predicted the doom and gloom of Reason for well over 10 years now. That said, according to RS, Reason now has as many licensed users as ever in its history, so it's likely they'll survive.

They flat out lied about the R12 launch and R+. That's significant.

Please explain?

I had an issue with Rob Papen VST recently, emailed them, replied overnight!

Rob Papen is literally a 1-3 man operation. Hard to compare.

RS only care about themselves now and the bottom line and even that they can't do well.

If you think any company on the planet don't care about the bottom line and their own survival more than anything else, you're either being intentionally obtuse or naive.

It's weird because when you say a 1-3 man company can't be compared yet out performs RS on a customer service level in every way, I don't really understand how your argument works. Doesn't that prove my point? That Reason has become a garbage company like Native Instruments who doesn't even provide ample support for their product. A company simply interested in separating you from your money instead of giving you fully functioning tools based on what was advertised. I always regret sharing my opinion on this forum and back on PUF because of all the people who seem to lack the understanding that this company is holding a great product hostage.

And then you go on to blather about other daw options. Have you not interacted with die hard reason users before? You know very well this is not the desired path.

As for companies caring about the bottom line, it was clear Props didn't only care about that with their pay-what-you-want experiment. It is very clear that the company in it's current form is hyper focused on growth at the expense of quality AND they can't even afford the talent or manhours to get it done. It;s pretty clear they are making a minimal investment for maximum return with the dumb subscription, which is still proving to not be that great of a value. Sound packs are lame. It is clear that the company in it's current form is only about money and just because every other company is like that doesn't mean we should accept that. It's fine to make money but also offer solid value/product. That's not happening right now. As for calling my thoughts obtuse or naive, that feels like a bit of a bad play on your part as a moderator and very elitist, which I have come to expect from the moderator class on the internet. So stop with the weak gotcha's or get a corporate legal degree and start getting paid for all the corpo protectionism your doing my friend. I'm trying to have a conversation in good faith and you are busy trying to shut it down with oppressively eye-rolling language. No wonder corporations get away with everything they do.

[earwig83]

This thread is quite interesting.
When RS does not communicate, they get slapped.
If they communicate, they get slapped.
If the do not communicate enough or fast enough with enough details, they get slapped.

And in future, if they communicate fast with enough details, they get slapped for communicating instead of fixing bugs or implementing feature requests
ezgif.com-gif-maker (3).gif

they will continue to get slapped until they release something that works. THEY literally raised prices on a broken product, that speaks volumes. Snake Oil.