Reason Studios shares their roadmap (September 7, 2021)

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Creativemind
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Post 20 Oct 2021

Loque wrote:
20 Oct 2021
jamespember wrote:
20 Oct 2021


I've seen this "free empty rack" idea floating around, so I'm curious to know more about this idea! When you say empty, do you actually mean empty? i.e. no built in devices or just no additional REs? Or just a limited selection of things? I think the key to getting some sort of free product right is guaranteeing that the "initial impression" is still mind-blowing and inspires you to go deeper.

Personally, I think the barriers to join are already pretty low. For $0 cost (free trial), or even just $19.99 one-time if you want an extra month, you can try everything that Reason has to offer with no limitations: DAW, RRP, 75+ devices + sound packs.
Yes, this idea is going round here since a while and even more since the RRP.

An empty RRP would give the users instant access to plenty of free RE, including fantastic synths.

A limited DAW function like 1 audio, 1 MIDI track would be ok. No pitch edit and so on.

This would get a few more ppl into the eco system. I read, a few were interested in Friktion or Algoritm, but not the rest...

Maybe charge them 50 bucks or so and give them the Combinator and a Sampler or something, so they could buy/use some refills.

There was also the idea of locked REs, just like the Arturia Analog Lab or similar reduced things...

The only problem could be, that the "whole" Reason experience would be an empty or reduced RRP or very limited DAW...
You couldn't do much with 1 audio and 1 midi track. You'd want it limited but not that limited. Say 3 of each? I suppose with the same limited devices in the RRP then you could just use it in another daw with as many tracks as you like.
:reason:

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Billy+
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Post 20 Oct 2021

Wait a minute, didn't lite run as RRP?

Why is RS looking at the situation again they have been against a low cost solution that is cut / limited and instead of allowing lite (free) user access to RE's they opted for a subscription service that would allow you and I access to it all without limitations and the massive costs. (Solution Found)

Can we all not remember Europa VST? It's discontinued now and for good reason (all it ever did was crash) at least with RRP (lite or full) you could use it and from my understanding the only real difference was lite didn't allow you to buy extras for that you had to upgrade to intro?

RS has the technology (software) to accomplish what is being asked for but they decided not to allow it.

the simplest solution would be to issue every account with a free license of lite and allow all RE's to work with it.

Sometimes it's difficult to see what works when you're fixated with maximising take up on a particular product, take for example the complete lack of shop presentation, how many sales went missing just because new customers didn't ever see a link to the shop?

Even now it takes a dedicated customer to find it......
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Last edited by Billy+ on 20 Oct 2021, edited 1 time in total.

jamespember
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Post 20 Oct 2021

selig wrote:
20 Oct 2021
jamespember wrote:
20 Oct 2021
Personally, I think the barriers to join are already pretty low. For $0 cost (free trial), or even just $19.99 one-time if you want an extra month, you can try everything that Reason has to offer with no limitations: DAW, RRP, 75+ devices + sound packs.
It’s not about “trying”, it’s about USING the product…
Let’s say someone (a non-Reason license holder) wanted to use one (or more) of my REs in Pro Tools or Logic. Compare it to someone wanting to use a VST instead - which is easier? Barriers being “pretty low” vs “no barriers” is a no brainer choice for most. When I talk to my non-Reason friends this is basically the response, which is to ask why there is ANY barrier at all since they are not accustom to needing to purchase two licenses just to use one product…and “free trials” don’t count if you want to actually USE the product, since at some point you gotta pay up.
[folks like me (Zane many more) have been asking for this since the first beta of RRP fwiw.]
Right, thanks for clarifying selig. Yeah, this makes more sense when you put it this way, and I do understand that pain point for sure. Getting "all" of Reason just to use that 1 RE in a Pro Tools project for example is definitely, if nothing else, a mental barrier for many. I can see why that user would just turn to something else.

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Loque
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Post 20 Oct 2021

Creativemind wrote:
20 Oct 2021
Loque wrote:
20 Oct 2021

Yes, this idea is going round here since a while and even more since the RRP.

An empty RRP would give the users instant access to plenty of free RE, including fantastic synths.

A limited DAW function like 1 audio, 1 MIDI track would be ok. No pitch edit and so on.

This would get a few more ppl into the eco system. I read, a few were interested in Friktion or Algoritm, but not the rest...

Maybe charge them 50 bucks or so and give them the Combinator and a Sampler or something, so they could buy/use some refills.

There was also the idea of locked REs, just like the Arturia Analog Lab or similar reduced things...

The only problem could be, that the "whole" Reason experience would be an empty or reduced RRP or very limited DAW...
You couldn't do much with 1 audio and 1 midi track. You'd want it limited but not that limited. Say 3 of each? I suppose with the same limited devices in the RRP then you could just use it in another daw with as many tracks as you like.
Its just a few lines of code to limit the number RRP instances.
Reason12, Win10

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Creativemind
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Post 20 Oct 2021

manisnotabird wrote:
13 Oct 2021
Any update on the "smart browser"?
I was wondering that. I suppose it'll be out next week.

Please please please Reason Studio's make it very smart / advanced. I can think of 27 feature's for it.

* Audio wave display
* Highlight any part of the wave with the mouse and it plays that section
* Auto-Looping
* Also click anywhere in the audio with the mouse cursor and it plays from there
* Tempo match with double speed / half speed
* Tempo and key Display
* Pitch Shift + or - 12 semitones
* Reverse Auditioning
* Play through track
* dB display for the volume slider
* Sync both browsers (on or off)
* Tag and branch searching
* Put dots next to already auditioned samples in a folder
* Refresh button for folders (and any added samples show up in a different colour)
* New section at the top of the browser thumbnails where newly added vst's are listed for 24 hrs after adding (thumbnails can be added after if you so wish)
* Patch auditioning (like you can already do with Dr.Octo.Rex files)
* Midi auditioning (plays with the patch from whatever devices of whichever track is selected in the sequencer)
* Device searching in projects
* Slice audio up by transients and apply all the above to the transients
* Scrub Samples
* All changes applied (pitch shift / tempo match etc) will apply when dropping into the sequencer
* Volume adjustment tick box (ticked will apply volume adjustments to the sample when dropped into sequencer)
* Remember browser state when re-opening project

I hope at least 15 of those are added but would like 20. Lol! I think about 7 could be considered icings on the cake / advanced features.
:reason:

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joeyluck
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Post 20 Oct 2021

I feel like a free "empty" rack could be mostly empty, but would at least include all the built-in utilities, including the Combinator. Like the rack itself, the Combinator in integral part for exploration of the rack and devices.

I think then the opportunity is created to better present the ability to "get more" from the rack or browser. I think also promoting the free REs for new users would be a great way to get them started and exploring the rack and the shop.

So I'm not a fan of IK Multimedia's approach of installing husks of plugins that appear as plugins in a DAW's browser. But I do think Reason could present all of the Reason devices in a slick way in the browser, that doesn't involve having husks installed, that shows the user what they would have if they were to purchase Reason.

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avasopht
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Post 20 Oct 2021

It's really a no brainer.

Something like Kontakt Player would be great.

Just some cut down version of Reason for accessing Rack Extensions.

It could be limited by the number of devices in it or something.

The main point is for the only barrier of entry to be the cost of the Rack Extension or Refill they're using.
---

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EnochLight
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Post 20 Oct 2021

Creativemind wrote:
20 Oct 2021
manisnotabird wrote:
13 Oct 2021
Any update on the "smart browser"?
I was wondering that. I suppose it'll be out next week.
:o :shock: :?

I think it bears repeating...


dooooooh.JPG

I will be seriously shocked if we see the new smart browser by next week, let alone the end of October.
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QVprod
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Post 20 Oct 2021

Agreed on the empty rack. If for nothing else, just the ability for people to buy REs. Whether they have a Reason license or not. I don’t think it takes away from perpetual or subscription users at all. Those would would buy just the REs they want would likely not otherwise buy into Reason otherwise, but seeing the rack may serve as an enticement for buying into the full thing.

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jam-s
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Post 20 Oct 2021

jamespember wrote:
20 Oct 2021
I've seen this "free empty rack" idea floating around, so I'm curious to know more about this idea! When you say empty, do you actually mean empty? i.e. no built in devices or just no additional REs? Or just a limited selection of things? I think the key to getting some sort of free product right is guaranteeing that the "initial impression" is still mind-blowing and inspires you to go deeper.

Personally, I think the barriers to join are already pretty low. For $0 cost (free trial), or even just $19.99 one-time if you want an extra month, you can try everything that Reason has to offer with no limitations: DAW, RRP, 75+ devices + sound packs.
Hi James, thanks for picking up on this. I see you've already gotten quite some valuable input on this from well respected forum members here, but let me add to this:

Keep in mind that this is an orthogonal approach to subscriptions that targets a different kind of customer. Imho the system could work like this:

Free tier:
  • just the RRP and no DAW functionality,
  • access to the shop,
  • and to highlight the modular nature of Reason add those modules:
    • Pulsar LGM-1,
    • CV and Audio spiders,
    • Line mixer 6:2
    • all the half rack devices
This free tier would tremendously help RE developers as now there is an easy solution to also service users of other DAWs without having to support a VST/AU port. This would also make the RE platform with all its benefits over VST much more attractive to new developers. Also the included goodies and the lot of free REs in the store will attract lots of new users and thus increase the potential customer base.

To get the free users to buy into the DAW you could add some reasonably priced feature bundles to the shop. Those would also successively unlock the DAW features (alá Build your custom Reason Rack).

My suggestion for the bundles would be something like this:

Combinations bundle (49€):
  • Combinator
  • Matrix
  • RPG-8
  • Mixer 14:2
  • Comp edit mode
  • +8 sequencer tracks
Slices bundle (49€):
  • Dr Octorex
  • Kong
  • Slice edit mode
  • +8 sequencer tracks
Pitch bundle (49€):
  • Neptune
  • NN-19
  • pitch edit mode
  • +8 sequencer tracks
Timing bundle (49€):
  • The Echo
  • Alligator
  • Synchronous
  • Dual Arpeggio
  • time stretch edit mode
  • +8 sequencer tracks
Beat bundle (49€)
  • Redrum
  • Beatmap
  • blocks mode
  • +8 sequencer tracks
Reason Compact bundle (49€):
  • Rytmik
  • Monotone
  • Europa
  • ID8
  • +8 sequencer tracks
Player bundle (49€):
  • Dual arp
  • Note Echo
  • scales & chords
  • Midi Out Device
  • +8 sequencer tracks
Mastering FX Bundle (49€):
  • MClass FX
  • Master Bus Compressor
  • Channel Dynamics
  • Channel EQ
  • +8 sequencer tracks
FX Bundle (49€):
  • RV7000 MK2
  • Audiomatic
  • Scream4
  • Pulveriser
  • BV512 Vocoder
  • Softube Bass Amp
  • Softtube Guitar Amp
  • Sweeper
  • Quartet
  • +8 sequencer tracks
Classic Synths bundle (49€):
  • Thor
  • Subtractor
  • Malstöm
  • +8 sequencer tracks
Modern Synths bundle (99€):
  • Grain
  • Europa
  • +8 sequencer tracks
Acoustic Instruments bundle (99€):
  • NN-XT
  • Radical Piano
  • Klang
  • Humana
  • Pangea
  • +8 sequencer tracks
To keep getting the whole package at once stay an attractive upgrade option, 50-80% of the price payed for those bundles should be deducted from the upgrade cost to the full version of Reason.

The main idea is to having the core modules packaged into bite sized bundles so new users could slowly explore more and more of the Reason ecosystem without shelling out a massive amount of money upfront and without the nagging fear of loosing access when not paying up on a subscription.

I hope you can get some inspiration from this and the other ideas here and then have a nice discussion with P&D and the marketing department over this.
Last edited by jam-s on 20 Oct 2021, edited 1 time in total.

Chi-Individual
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Post 20 Oct 2021

An empty free rack creates the opportunity for all STANDARD instruments and fx that have been added since RE's became a thing to now become sellable REs themselves. There are some people who only want Europa or Grain and even now Mimic. So make a free empty rack and sell those to the people who want it.

Then it can be set up where, anyone who has a previous license of Reason Standard gets access to all standard units like Thor, Redrum, half racks, anything their license covers already.
Ex: I have R11 Suite so I get access to everything I own Native to Reason in my free rack. Someone who only wants Grain can buy grain and only have that.

Now people who don't want to upgrade or cough up $500 can still get the best of Reason and RS can create another revenue stream.

If I were new to Reason I'd pay $9 - $19 or whatever in the shop for items that come with R Standard and RE prices for newer modules like Mimic. Maybe sell bundles like Europa/Grain/Rad Piano or M-Class and Channel Strip FX bundle. That way you actually have the chance to completely put $500 exactly where you want it without anything extra they don't want. Of course the Combi, Merger/Splitter and a few more should be free to add though.

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zoidkirb
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Post 20 Oct 2021

There already was a free Lite RRP. I doubt it was hugely successful in encouraging new users to delve into the shop.
I myself appreciated it at the time to use all my R10 REs for free in Ableton.

If you wanna lure in new users you gotta give away something compelling. Maybe start with Europa in a free almost empty RRP? The free web browser Europa was actually what got me interested in Reason originally.

Right now I'd say the free offerings from VCV and Cherry Modular look a lot more exciting than a potential free RRP with a few dusty old half rack devices.

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MixerJaexx
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Post 20 Oct 2021

jam-s wrote:
20 Oct 2021
My suggestion for the bundles would be something like this:
This is so well thought out, it feels less like a post by a user of Reason and more like an internal leak for a pitch idea at Reason Studios. Even the titles of the bundles sound like a real thing.

I don’t like the idea others have had regarding offering the Reason Rack Plug-in for free without also offering an equivalent (clearly limited) version of Reason DAW, but this idea’s fantastic. Gives Reason Voltage Modular-like approachability.
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jam-s
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Post 20 Oct 2021

MixerJaexx wrote:
20 Oct 2021
jam-s wrote:
20 Oct 2021
My suggestion for the bundles would be something like this:
This is so well thought out, it feels less like a post by a user of Reason and more like an internal leak for a pitch idea at Reason Studios. Even the titles of the bundles sound like a real thing.

I don’t like the idea others have had regarding offering the Reason Rack Plug-in for free without also offering an equivalent (clearly limited) version of Reason DAW, but this idea’s fantastic. Gives Reason Voltage Modular-like approachability.
:oops: Thanks for the roses. I put some thought into this (from different perspectives like marketing, user, technical, etc.), but I can assure you that I'm only a long term user of Rebirth/Reason and have just been following the ups and downs of the :re: tech closely. So, I really hope for this Idea to actually go into an internal strategy at RS going forward, as I really hope for Reason :reason: and the :re: format to gain more traction.

Popey
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Post 21 Oct 2021

I think a free rack is a great idea. In my opinion just have it include the bare essentials needed for a user of another daw to get into the reason ecosystem. It should perhaps have midi out and combinator. That way those that want to try reason with the free stuff in the shop can. Someone who just wants to buy algoritm etc or beatmap can without having to pay for full reason cost. Its should get people onto the website and shop which is good for rs and re devs.

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nickb523
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Post 21 Oct 2021

I'm not sure why anyone would want an empty RRP when the core strength of Reason is combining a large pool of various different things into even bigger cooler things. That is the software's USP and for a cheap monthly price Reason+ offers all of that and more. It all sounds a bit like giving away a free storage container for Lego and then trying to sell the actual Lego by the brick. IMHO a free empty RRP would serve only one purpose, and that would be to keep the third party RE market on prolonged life support while damaging the main USP of the core product. In the days before Reason+ I would have said it was a great idea but the sub model changes everything and that's where the industry as a whole is going.

Chi-Individual
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Post 21 Oct 2021

nickb523 wrote:
21 Oct 2021
I'm not sure why anyone would want an empty RRP when the core strength of Reason is combining a large pool of various different things into even bigger cooler things. That is the software's USP and for a cheap monthly price Reason+ offers all of that and more. It all sounds a bit like giving away a free storage container for Lego and then trying to sell the actual Lego by the brick. IMHO a free empty RRP would serve only one purpose, and that would be to keep the third party RE market on prolonged life support while damaging the main USP of the core product. In the days before Reason+ I would have said it was a great idea but the sub model changes everything and that's where the industry as a whole is going.
I think Selig said it best, what if someone tries R+ and figures that they'd like to use certain RE's on their own. Maybe they want to use them when they don't have internet access, or maybe they only like 10 REs and they just so happen to not be developed by RS. A free rack with just a few additions (combi, merger/splitter, half racks) are all that's needed. 3rd party developers wouldn't have to worry about losing out on revenue due to a larger barrier of entry to their products and RS still get some support from the Shop sales. How is this a losing situation to add on? R+ can stay but you have to remember there are some people who may only have a few coins each year to treat themselves to new music apps etc. Why should they be made to wait until they can afford a subscription or a full version just to get a third party product not included in the Standard DAW anyway?

MuttReason
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Post 21 Oct 2021

nickb523 wrote:
21 Oct 2021
In the days before Reason+ I would have said it was a great idea but the sub model changes everything and that's where the industry as a whole is going.
Nick, I know that the subs model is becoming more common now (Splice, Roland Cloud etc) but what makes you say that SaaS is "where the industry as a whole is going"? None of the major DAWs are SaaS nor are big players like NI or UAD. I'm not having a go at you here, I'm genuinely interested in your comment given your experience.... do you think ALL of the major players will shift towards monthly subs and away from point release upgrades, tiered offerings etc? I'm wary of subs (as are some others on RT) unless unavoidable (only way to get Spotify is via a sub, for example) but if there really is a total MI industry shift underway then maybe I'll need to reconsider eventually. Either that or double-down on feeding my hardware GAS.... don't need to pay a monthly sub to play a 20 year old synth bought on eBay :-)

DJMaytag
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Post 21 Oct 2021

nickb523 wrote:
21 Oct 2021
I'm not sure why anyone would want an empty RRP when the core strength of Reason is combining a large pool of various different things into even bigger cooler things.
I think many of us are suggesting "empty" as far as only coming with the basic building blocks of Reason, like what you would have found in the rack up to Reason 5 (ie before Reason & Record merged). Maybe add a couple newer utilities & players, but that's it.

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avasopht
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Post 21 Oct 2021

Coloring EQ. Inside a mini rack where you only need to pay for Coloring EQ.

It's a win/win/win for everyone involved.

$20/mo to access that is not going to fly for most people.

It's a massive net loss for all parties.

The thing about subscriptions is that it always raises the question of whether I really want to trap myself into having to keep subscribing for the next 10 years (£2,400) to access a few plugins.

That's what consumers will be thinking. And each month that comes out of their account they will be thinking about that.

I unsubscribed from Roland Cloud for that very reason, plus they made it difficult to downgrade. Dumb move. Now they get nothing.
---

rootwheel
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Post 21 Oct 2021

Chi-Individual wrote:
20 Oct 2021
There are some people who only want Europa or Grain and even now Mimic. So make a free empty rack and sell those to the people who want it.
The decoupling of the Reason platform from its content makes so much business sense I don't know why they wouldn't refocus on this. I wonder if Reason Studios can pivot from their current plan and reconsider. It would also enable in-app purchases to buy any single part of the Reason eco-system you need or want at any time, with a freemium product available to all as a starter. The shop is no longer a website, it's embedded within the Reason platform itself.

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QVprod
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Post 21 Oct 2021

nickb523 wrote:
21 Oct 2021
I'm not sure why anyone would want an empty RRP when the core strength of Reason is combining a large pool of various different things into even bigger cooler things. That is the software's USP and for a cheap monthly price Reason+ offers all of that and more. It all sounds a bit like giving away a free storage container for Lego and then trying to sell the actual Lego by the brick. IMHO a free empty RRP would serve only one purpose, and that would be to keep the third party RE market on prolonged life support while damaging the main USP of the core product. In the days before Reason+ I would have said it was a great idea but the sub model changes everything and that's where the industry as a whole is going.
I’m shocked that as a RE dev you don’t see how this would be beneficial. People use the rack differently. Not everyone is into building complex devices. Having an empty rack means they’re not getting everything included in R+ so it’s not damaging the core product at all. IK Multimedia has had a similar model for all their plugins for years.

What it does do is create an additional revenue stream for both RS and RE devs and give people who may not have immediate interest in the full package of Reason a small window in. You can’t consider R+ a low barrier to entry when someone is only interested in buying a certain RE. I wouldn’t pay $20 a month just to access a plug-in I paid for.

A free rack might however be a gateway for someone to be interested in more however. That’s exactly how the IK multimedia stuff like Sampletank and Amplitude work; give you a taste of the product to entice you to buy into more of it. From there you still have the option to buy Reason or subscribe to have access to all of the rest of what Reason offers.

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orthodox
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Post 21 Oct 2021

QVprod wrote:
21 Oct 2021
What it does do is create an additional revenue stream for both RS and RE devs and give people who may not have immediate interest in the full package of Reason a small window in. You can’t consider R+ a low barrier to entry when someone is only interested in buying a certain RE. I wouldn’t pay $20 a month just to access a plug-in I paid for.
I guess the gross income from that revenue stream would be lower than that of the full package. Do you think that's what RS needs?
I also have doubts that 3rd party devs would really benefit from that, as they would then have to compete with low-priced RS devices.

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avasopht
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Post 21 Oct 2021

orthodox wrote:
21 Oct 2021

I guess the gross income from that revenue stream would be lower than that of the full package. Do you think that's what RS needs?
I also have doubts that 3rd party devs would really benefit from that, as they would then have to compete with low-priced RS devices.
$100,000 is a lot more than $0 if they just don't spend anything because the value offering doesn't make sense.

It's a tough balance to strike, of course. But there's a reason why Native Instruments have the free Kontakt and Reaktor player. It's also why game engines are now free to use until you're earning something like $100,000/yr.

Reason is great - that's why I use it.

But it's far too easy for employees to start drinking the coolaid and not realize when they have become out of touch with consumer's perception of their value offering. Case and point - thinking that a trial or $20/mo is a low barrier of entry and not realizing that consumers just don't see it like that (which Selig explained very well).
---

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QVprod
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Post 21 Oct 2021

orthodox wrote:
21 Oct 2021
QVprod wrote:
21 Oct 2021
What it does do is create an additional revenue stream for both RS and RE devs and give people who may not have immediate interest in the full package of Reason a small window in. You can’t consider R+ a low barrier to entry when someone is only interested in buying a certain RE. I wouldn’t pay $20 a month just to access a plug-in I paid for.
I guess the gross income from that revenue stream would be lower than that of the full package. Do you think that's what RS needs?
I also have doubts that 3rd party devs would really benefit from that, as they would then have to compete with low-priced RS devices.
If the reasoning for not doing this is because the gross income would be less than the full package of Reason, then they should get rid of the shop alltogether. It's clearly not the primary money maker at this point.

The competition for 3rd party devs would be no different than it is now. It's still the same shop. On the contrary, devs would have the potential benefit of a considerably larger customer base that wouldn't need to own a full Reason license or subscribe in order to buy a RE. There's literally no downside here. Just an easy additional revenue stream that is otherwise untapped which would also serve to increase users.

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