Reason Studios shares their roadmap (September 7, 2021)

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EnochLight
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Post 11 Oct 2021

mimidancer wrote:
11 Oct 2021
Do you still use the ASR 10?
I sold my ASR-10, SCSI CD-ROM, and all libraries (about 30 floppies and a dozen or so CD-ROM) about 20 years ago - not too long after I had settled into using Reason 1.0. :thumbup:
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mimidancer
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Post 11 Oct 2021

DJMaytag wrote:
11 Oct 2021
mimidancer wrote:
11 Oct 2021
Something I would enjoy in future updates is more implementation of dotted times in synced delays and whatnot.
What devices can’t do this?
the Echo does not have dotted times. I just use milliseconds and do the math to set it myself. Would be nice though.

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huggermugger
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Post 11 Oct 2021

mimidancer wrote:
11 Oct 2021
DJMaytag wrote:
11 Oct 2021

What devices can’t do this?
the Echo does not have dotted times. I just use milliseconds and do the math to set it myself. Would be nice though.
The Echo has dotted times. 3/32 = dotted 16th. 3/16 = dotted 8th. 3/8 = dotted quarter.

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mimidancer
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Post 11 Oct 2021

huggermugger wrote:
11 Oct 2021
mimidancer wrote:
11 Oct 2021


the Echo does not have dotted times. I just use milliseconds and do the math to set it myself. Would be nice though.
The Echo has dotted times. 3/32 = dotted 16th. 3/16 = dotted 8th. 3/8 = dotted quarter.
I never noticed. Thanks. I missed it the first time I guess and never looked back. Thanks again.

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manisnotabird
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Post 13 Oct 2021

Any update on the "smart browser"?

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Billy+
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Post 14 Oct 2021

Just to recap

This was the "increased" user graph from the road map
IMG_2826.PNG
Now I managed to get 4 people using the cheap £3 subscription so can honestly say I also saw an increase in the user base however with the offering now ending it's the subscribers who carry on with the service that really matter.

And hears my breakdown

Customer #1 stopped using RRP within a couple of weeks in favour of his current Live / vst collection.
Customer #2 stopped using Reason Standalone after glitchy graphics when 12 came out.
Customer #3 stopped using Reason standalone after deciding they didn't want to pay full price.

And I decided that I didn't want R12 after testing it for a few weeks and feeling like I could carry on with R11Suite while new features got added and fixed over the next 6 months +

So that's 3 new customers who won't be renewing the subscription and 1 long term customer put off by R12 who wasn't really interested in subscription but give it a try...

4 out of 4 quitting the service.

How many people out there did you try to convert and what's happened to them?
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VST 2.4 MIDI It's definitely on the list of todos
What MIDI tools are you itching to use

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Stamatz
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Post 14 Oct 2021

I actually subscibed to R+ for the 333 Deal and also owned R11 Suite at the time.

I was always going to upgrade to R12 as Mimic, Comb-V2 and Hi-res once that is sorted out are great additions.

I also would've waited until some of the issues were sorted out but when they announced the price increase to $199.00 I just jumped on the $129.00 deal.

Regarding your question/poll, I will not be renewing my subscription since I already purchased R12, the only thing it adds for me are the packs which is one of the things I like to do in Reason so I don't really need them.

Some of them are very cool and I'm not in anyway implying they're not useful.

Creating patches is just some of the fun I have so that takes some of it away by already being created but they do have very useful purposes.

Looking forward to the R12-CE - Completed Edition. Hope the October patches brings us close to that.

Have fun be safe :puf_smile:
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Billy+
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Post 14 Oct 2021

Stamatz wrote:
14 Oct 2021
.
Looking forward to the R12-CE - Completed Edition. Hope the October patches brings us close to that.
See I've been using Reason since version 1 and I couldn't buy yet another upgrade that doesn't work, even though RS layed out the roadmap and implemented a price increase I just wasn't prepared to buy.

I've enjoyed using Reason for years and I'm sure that I will continue enjoying using it but this new approach to releasing features as and when while fixing bugs as and when is just asking for trust I'm personally not willing to buy into especially as the last few months of R11 exposed too many bugs that just got ignored because R+ was financially more important to the company and although I understand I just can't agree as it seems more like an excuse to be in a perpetual state of development rather than fixing the release then adding enhancements to the current version.

As things stand I'm more happy to keep using my old version or wait and pay the extra for a working stable version of the software than €$£20 a month for a development version, this whole + thing was marketed as software that could be fixed updated and enhanced but the reality so far is bugs and hints that things will get better "in the future"

I honestly hope that things get better and I'm looking forward to seeing what the finished product functions like but for now I'm content with the bugs I know about and happy that I know that a fix isn't in the works especially as I don't have to keep paying for it.
VST 2.4 MIDI It's definitely on the list of todos
What MIDI tools are you itching to use

ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ Time for a good long sleep ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ

flori89
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Post 20 Oct 2021

Billy+ wrote:
14 Oct 2021
Just to recap

This was the "increased" user graph from the road map IMG_2826.PNG

Now I managed to get 4 people using the cheap £3 subscription so can honestly say I also saw an increase in the user base however with the offering now ending it's the subscribers who carry on with the service that really matter.

And hears my breakdown

Customer #1 stopped using RRP within a couple of weeks in favour of his current Live / vst collection.
Customer #2 stopped using Reason Standalone after glitchy graphics when 12 came out.
Customer #3 stopped using Reason standalone after deciding they didn't want to pay full price.

And I decided that I didn't want R12 after testing it for a few weeks and feeling like I could carry on with R11Suite while new features got added and fixed over the next 6 months +

So that's 3 new customers who won't be renewing the subscription and 1 long term customer put off by R12 who wasn't really interested in subscription but give it a try...

4 out of 4 quitting the service.

How many people out there did you try to convert and what's happened to them?
I have a sample size of one, so not much to add. I tried Reason+ for three months now. It's a great playground for sound design and stuff, but I couldn't get warm with it. I always had the feeling that any time invested will be a waste because at some point I won't have it anymore. So I couldn't bring myself to really dive into it. The pricepoint is just to high for my taste, and since I had a bad experience with Adobe Cloud I'm very hesitant in regards to subscription services overall.

Getting the base version of Reason 12 also is no option, since it doesn't include the synths that I want the most. Also just for the rack it's just to expensive and includes too much stuff I don't need. maybe they should think of offering a rack only version that is cheaper and targets people that already have a DAW.

Well that's it, has been kind of fun, let's see, maybe at some point their offering will be worth it for me.

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jam-s
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Post 20 Oct 2021

flori89 wrote:
20 Oct 2021
Getting the base version of Reason 12 also is no option, since it doesn't include the synths that I want the most. Also just for the rack it's just to expensive and includes too much stuff I don't need. maybe they should think of offering a rack only version that is cheaper and targets people that already have a DAW.

Well that's it, has been kind of fun, let's see, maybe at some point their offering will be worth it for me.
Imho the best option for them would be to offer an empty Rack with a limited DAW functionality (i.e. no pitch/slice/comp edit and limited Track count but still including the Reason Rack Plugin) for free. Then people could pick the REs of interest and would have a much lower barrier of entry to get into the Reason ecosystem.
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jamespember
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Post 20 Oct 2021

jam-s wrote:
20 Oct 2021
flori89 wrote:
20 Oct 2021
Getting the base version of Reason 12 also is no option, since it doesn't include the synths that I want the most. Also just for the rack it's just to expensive and includes too much stuff I don't need. maybe they should think of offering a rack only version that is cheaper and targets people that already have a DAW.

Well that's it, has been kind of fun, let's see, maybe at some point their offering will be worth it for me.
Imho the best option for them would be to offer an empty Rack with a limited DAW functionality (i.e. no pitch/slice/comp edit and limited Track count but still including the Reason Rack Plugin) for free. Then people could pick the REs of interest and would have a much lower barrier of entry to get into the Reason ecosystem.
I've seen this "free empty rack" idea floating around, so I'm curious to know more about this idea! When you say empty, do you actually mean empty? i.e. no built in devices or just no additional REs? Or just a limited selection of things? I think the key to getting some sort of free product right is guaranteeing that the "initial impression" is still mind-blowing and inspires you to go deeper.

Personally, I think the barriers to join are already pretty low. For $0 cost (free trial), or even just $19.99 one-time if you want an extra month, you can try everything that Reason has to offer with no limitations: DAW, RRP, 75+ devices + sound packs.

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Loque
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Post 20 Oct 2021

jamespember wrote:
20 Oct 2021
jam-s wrote:
20 Oct 2021


Imho the best option for them would be to offer an empty Rack with a limited DAW functionality (i.e. no pitch/slice/comp edit and limited Track count but still including the Reason Rack Plugin) for free. Then people could pick the REs of interest and would have a much lower barrier of entry to get into the Reason ecosystem.
I've seen this "free empty rack" idea floating around, so I'm curious to know more about this idea! When you say empty, do you actually mean empty? i.e. no built in devices or just no additional REs? Or just a limited selection of things? I think the key to getting some sort of free product right is guaranteeing that the "initial impression" is still mind-blowing and inspires you to go deeper.

Personally, I think the barriers to join are already pretty low. For $0 cost (free trial), or even just $19.99 one-time if you want an extra month, you can try everything that Reason has to offer with no limitations: DAW, RRP, 75+ devices + sound packs.
Yes, this idea is going round here since a while and even more since the RRP.

An empty RRP would give the users instant access to plenty of free RE, including fantastic synths.

A limited DAW function like 1 audio, 1 MIDI track would be ok. No pitch edit and so on.

This would get a few more ppl into the eco system. I read, a few were interested in Friktion or Algoritm, but not the rest...

Maybe charge them 50 bucks or so and give them the Combinator and a Sampler or something, so they could buy/use some refills.

There was also the idea of locked REs, just like the Arturia Analog Lab or similar reduced things...

The only problem could be, that the "whole" Reason experience would be an empty or reduced RRP or very limited DAW...
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selig
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Post 20 Oct 2021

jamespember wrote:
20 Oct 2021
Personally, I think the barriers to join are already pretty low. For $0 cost (free trial), or even just $19.99 one-time if you want an extra month, you can try everything that Reason has to offer with no limitations: DAW, RRP, 75+ devices + sound packs.
It’s not about “trying”, it’s about USING the product…
Let’s say someone (a non-Reason license holder) wanted to use one (or more) of my REs in Pro Tools or Logic. Compare it to someone wanting to use a VST instead - which is easier? Barriers being “pretty low” vs “no barriers” is a no brainer choice for most. When I talk to my non-Reason friends this is basically the response, which is to ask why there is ANY barrier at all since they are not accustom to needing to purchase two licenses just to use one product…and “free trials” don’t count if you want to actually USE the product, since at some point you gotta pay up.
[folks like me (Zane many more) have been asking for this since the first beta of RRP fwiw.]
Selig Audio, LLC

DJMaytag
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Post 20 Oct 2021

jamespember wrote:
20 Oct 2021
I've seen this "free empty rack" idea floating around, so I'm curious to know more about this idea! When you say empty, do you actually mean empty? i.e. no built in devices or just no additional REs? Or just a limited selection of things? I think the key to getting some sort of free product right is guaranteeing that the "initial impression" is still mind-blowing and inspires you to go deeper.
I am not a RRP user and probably never will be, but I am 100% in favor of making RRP free with a VERY limited set of devices, such as what someone would have found in Reason in the early days.

Subtractor
Malstrom
Thor
The various FX, like the originals and the M-Class processors
The utilities like Spider devices, maybe the Pulsar LFO
Plus a player or two, or at the very least just the Drum Sequencer
Maybe partner with some other dev's to include some of their free RE's

This free RRP gives someone a basic set of devices to work with, but most importantly, it opens those users up to the Add-On Shop to buy Rack Extensions to build upon the basic set of devices they would get (and there would be the freebie RE's they have access to). For Rack Extension developers, this could open up the market for their devices to new customers, instead of limiting it to just R+ subscribers and perpetual license holders. Obviously devices developed by Reason Studios could garner more sales as well, notably from people buying/subscribing/renting-to-own things like Algoritm, Complex-1, QNG, Pattern Mutator, etc.

I think one of the keys for the success of Reason long-term is keeping your RE developers engaged and interested in continued maintenance & development. It really sucks that there's been a lot of devs who have abandoned their RE's, and if that trend continues, it might not bode well for the future of Reason. If everyone just says "screw it, I'll develop VST's instead of RE's," then Reason is just another DAW instead of the unique creative platform it has always been.
Last edited by DJMaytag on 20 Oct 2021, edited 1 time in total.

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EnochLight
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Post 20 Oct 2021

selig wrote:
20 Oct 2021
jamespember wrote:
20 Oct 2021
Personally, I think the barriers to join are already pretty low. For $0 cost (free trial), or even just $19.99 one-time if you want an extra month, you can try everything that Reason has to offer with no limitations: DAW, RRP, 75+ devices + sound packs.
It’s not about “trying”, it’s about USING the product…
Let’s say someone (a non-Reason license holder) wanted to use one (or more) of my REs in Pro Tools or Logic. Compare it to someone wanting to use a VST instead - which is easier? Barriers being “pretty low” vs “no barriers” is a no brainer choice for most. When I talk to my non-Reason friends this is basically the response, which is to ask why there is ANY barrier at all since they are not accustom to needing to purchase two licenses just to use one product…and “free trials” don’t count if you want to actually USE the product, since at some point you gotta pay up.
[folks like me (Zane many more) have been asking for this since the first beta of RRP fwiw.]
^^ THIS ^^

I am in 100% agreement that there should at the very least be a free blank RRP option with no devices - just the default mixer thing - catered to Rack Extension owners and users who want to buy Rack Extensions in another DAW but have no need for Reason DAW (or even any native Reason rack devices). It could only result in more sales for both RE devs and RS in general, I would think?
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DJMaytag
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Post 20 Oct 2021

EnochLight wrote:
20 Oct 2021
selig wrote:
20 Oct 2021

It’s not about “trying”, it’s about USING the product…
Let’s say someone (a non-Reason license holder) wanted to use one (or more) of my REs in Pro Tools or Logic. Compare it to someone wanting to use a VST instead - which is easier? Barriers being “pretty low” vs “no barriers” is a no brainer choice for most. When I talk to my non-Reason friends this is basically the response, which is to ask why there is ANY barrier at all since they are not accustom to needing to purchase two licenses just to use one product…and “free trials” don’t count if you want to actually USE the product, since at some point you gotta pay up.
[folks like me (Zane many more) have been asking for this since the first beta of RRP fwiw.]
^^ THIS ^^

I am in 100% agreement that there should at the very least be a free blank RRP option with no devices - just the default mixer thing - catered to Rack Extension owners and users who want to buy Rack Extensions in another DAW but have no need for Reason DAW (or even any native Reason rack devices). It could only result in more sales for both RE devs and RS in general, I would think?
Exactly. You both are thinking exactly what I'm thinking, and I'm 100% thinking of how a free RRP would benefit RE developers like Selig (and others) who are active in this forum that haven't abandoned their RE's (or those who want to make RE"s that are hesitant).

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guitfnky
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Post 20 Oct 2021

^^^these many comments^^^and that’s to say nothing about the inability to go back to an earlier perpetual licensed version if you decide you want to “try” 12 with a month of R+. if you do some work you like, even without any of the new devices, and save it, you can’t go back to using R11 or earlier. gotta pay up one way or another.

that’s not a “low barrier”, that’s a bad way to force people to give you money.
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Jackjackdaw
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Post 20 Oct 2021

I thought the Lite/intro version was perfect. I guess it was scrapped to help pump R+ . But it was a free copy of Lite that got me on board with Reason and I’ve bought loads of stuff from the shop.

DJMaytag
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Post 20 Oct 2021

Loque wrote:
20 Oct 2021
A limited DAW function like 1 audio, 1 MIDI track would be ok. No pitch edit and so on.
I wouldn't even limit it at that, since someone could just load up multiple instances of RRP and get around the limit (albeit without any way to interacting between RRP instances).

Give this free RRP everything Reason has to offer, but just cut out a lot of the newer added devices like Europa, Mimic, Grain, Klang, etc and put those back into the shop as options to buy (much like Europa was available to be bought before it was added in to Reason). That's more Add-On Shop sales for RS plus other RE/player developers!

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guitfnky
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Post 20 Oct 2021

DJMaytag wrote:
20 Oct 2021
Loque wrote:
20 Oct 2021
A limited DAW function like 1 audio, 1 MIDI track would be ok. No pitch edit and so on.
I wouldn't even limit it at that, since someone could just load up multiple instances of RRP and get around the limit (albeit without any way to interacting between RRP instances).
I think he’s talking about in standalone. there’s no concept of pitch edit, and audio/MIDI Reason tracks when using RRP.

I do think the idea of being able to buy single stock devices a-la carte is a good one.
I write bad music for good people

latest release—The Lake Door:
bit.ly/TheLakeDoor-Soundcloud
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DJMaytag
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Post 20 Oct 2021

jamespember wrote:
20 Oct 2021
or even just $19.99 one-time if you want an extra month, you can try everything that Reason has to offer
I totally get wanting to push this value of ALL THE THINGS, but I think that's a pitch geared towards newer or inexperienced users that might not know exactly what they're wanting. I'm not sure this value is seen as universal, as evidenced by how R11 Suite didn't sell very well.

This free, but limited, RRP idea would open up some of the Reason experience to a large number of users of other DAW's, and that could eventually lead to either buying a perpetual license or subscribing to the full R+, not to mention what sort of sales could be generated in the Add-On Shop.

DJMaytag
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Post 20 Oct 2021

guitfnky wrote:
20 Oct 2021
I think he’s talking about in standalone. there’s no concept of pitch edit, and audio/MIDI Reason tracks when using RRP.
Gotcha. I definitely would not offer a highly limited standalone, as I think there are better odds of gaining more users through this Free RRP idea we're been talking about.
I do think the idea of being able to buy single stock devices a-la carte is a good one.
I would think Europa would be a big seller in that case, but I'm sure others think just as highly of Complex-1, Friktion, Scenic, etc.

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Loque
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Post 20 Oct 2021

Or maybe you get a free RRP without anything if you buy RE for 100 bucks...
Reason12, Win10

Chi-Individual
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Post 20 Oct 2021

I could see including the Half Racks along with the Combi, Thor, Redrum and NN19(and maybe throw in Pulsar and/or Synchronous just because) plus the SSL style mixer as a free standalone version being more than enough. Music can be made with the standalone completely with just these(Thor is more than capable), or purchase some RE's or use RRP and still use REs. Limit it to 8 or 12 tracks like most other software.


Edit: Just make the DAW version of Reason compact but without the synth limitations. I'm sure if it came with Europa then a free version of Reason would be everywhere.

MuttReason
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Post 20 Oct 2021

I've been thinking afresh about RS and the push to Reason+ (yeah yeah I know we have the choice of a "perpetual licence" also but R+ is the main RS marketing 'call to action' headline wherever you look). I've been checking out a bunch of the other music subscription services out there which TBH have never really appealed to me previously. I did this because I'm moving more into hardware at the moment and decided to look into Roland Cloud which works brilliantly alongside Roland hardware. Roland Cloud looks great and costs about the same as a R+ subscription. I also checked out Splice (my hardware setup is based around a MPC Live 2 which comes with 3 months of Splice free). I really don't like the idea of subscription services for music software but Roland's offer is pretty interesting.

What struck me through all of this is that the RS roadmap - as much as anything - is an attempt by the company to reassure all of us that while RS may be a small business (40+ employees IIRC) they're planning to stick around - and support their products - for years into the future. Roland doesn't really need to make that point - even subtly and implicitly - because, well, they're Roland... big company (in MI industry terms at least) with loads of products and IP, so it's pretty unlikely they'll just close up shop one day and then suddenly all those fantastic software synths won't be able to connect to the auth server or be patched for the next Mac/Windows OS or whatever. Pretty safe bet to go with Roland I'd have thought (if you're in the market for a music subs service, that is).

I want RS to be around for years into the future. I've stuck with Reason for 20 years and I've developed an affinity with the Reason DAW like no other software I've ever used. I've also always liked what I saw of the people in the company FWIW... seemed like a corporate culture I felt I could relate to (and product demo videos with proper humour too... miss those). But do I believe the company will still be around in the future, like I'm pretty sure that Roland will? I'm less convinced now as the R12 saga rumbles on and the absolute basics - from installation and authorisation to core programme stability - still aren't in the right place (for some if not many people, although not for everyone... not all experiences are negative, I get that).

Short version: I think RS have a very narrow window to get R12 to where it was supposed to be at launch... working straight out of the box for everyone with a minimum spec computer, without exceptions and without relying on user-unfriendly workarounds (Terminal scripts and graphic card driver tweaks just to be able to open up a piece of music software? Got to be kidding me, instant fail. I'm a musician not a software engineer). There is nothing in this roadmap that gives me confidence on the basics. In fact, the opposite is true... I think there's a good chance that by adding VST3 support (massively overdue) or M1 support, on current form the devs will end up breaking something else that's just about working.... followed by yet more 'we feel your pain, we're working on fixing it' messages for months while the product remains unreliable still.

Agile development that gives us cool new stuff that works brilliantly and makes a great product even better? Yeah, maybe I could overcome my resistance to subs on principle to go for that (or at least be confident in buying the upgrade to R12 and buying more REs) because a company that does that right is a good bet for the long term. But agile development that means the product doesn't work like it should (and in some respects works pretty badly, if at all) but hey don't worry, we promise we'll try to fix it quickly... but meanwhile here's some other new stuff we're working on? Nope. That's not a survivable business model.

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