Studio One Crossgrade Possibility -- Opinions Sought

Want to talk about music hardware or software that doesn't include Reason?
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Social Exodus
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Post 06 Oct 2021

So I have an option to purchase Studio One 5 for roughly half the price. It is VERY tempting.

I have Reason 11 Suite (not moving to 12), and a license for Reaper as well as Cakewalk by Bandlab with all the SONAR Platinum content available in it.

My concerns with each of what I own already:

Reaper
  • A very capable and resource light DAW, it has an EXTREMELY dense interface. Kenny Gioia has done dozens of helpful videos, but still it's not very intuitive - at least to me
  • Right now I have $60 invested, but if I eventually want to put a shingle out, it jumps to $225 which while not bad is MORE than what I can get Studio One 5 for right now.
  • Zero instruments included except JS plain Jane stuff.
Cakewalk by Bandlab
  • Although free and frequently updated, it is very old code and may not translate well into 21st century music production (which I am attempting to self teach)
  • The interface is really complicated with tons of menus, options and possible layouts. Kills creativity at times
  • Rather limited in terms of synths and such.
  • It seems to me that this product is the honey being used to entice people into their music collaboration software which I have zero interest in. Think Alihoopa
Reason
  • This is by far the most fun and intuitive interface out there IMHO. However, it is dated in terms of graphics unless I pay ALMOST as much as I can get Studio One 5 for, and that is for an unfinished product
  • I hate subscription models with a passion. I know Presonus has one as well, but they have also put considerable time and energy into a user interface that is sleek, drag and drop, high quality graphics and even scoring with Notion. By contrast, RS seems hell bent to drive everyone to Reason+ by putting out an unfinished product and raising the prices on upgrades. No bueno
  • Although it supports VST2, it is still lacking VST3 and while I have a butt ton of Rack Extensions, they are useful in only one DAW. Mea Culpa.
  • On the upside, I can use all of that in another DAW via RRP which is a Godsend for me if I jump ship
Added:
bxbrkrz wrote: You forgot to list the pros and cons of Studio One.


Well, off the top of my head...

Drag and drop interface. One window (or not) workflow. Scene presets and automation. (Seemingly) Decent set of mastering tools. (Seemingly)Decent built in synths (but Reason rules there). Mixing seems intuitive and making parallel channels with a compressor (for example) on one with dry on the other looks to be a snap. But too, Reason's way isn't rocket surgery I suppose. Melodyne is built right into the interface, not a separate plugin (as does Reason with Pitch Edit).VST 3 support. Composer interface with Notion that follows MIDI note population in real time..


So what I am asking is this; What kind of warts does Studio One 5 have? Any? Is it a resource hog (I only have a n i5 Ivy Bridge box, but it also has SSD's and 28 GB memory so it runs really well)? How are the built in effects? They claim a one stop shop form idea to publication -- is that just hype or is it really so?

TL;DR: The biggie though is this; given this opportunity and in light of my misgivings on current DAWs I own -- is it going to be a step up or simply sideways?

Any input is appreciated.

Best,

Steve
Last edited by Social Exodus on 06 Oct 2021, edited 1 time in total.
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gullum
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Post 06 Oct 2021

do you expect any of these DAWs to come with updates in the coming years? if yes aren't they all unfinished then?
IMO it think is only a step sideways you can do most of the same things and come to a final product that sounds good to amazing only the road to Rome are different

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bxbrkrz
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Post 06 Oct 2021

$225, if your one album brings you at least $20K?
https://reaperblog.net/2013/07/reaper-f ... orization/

You forgot to list the pros and cons of Studio One.
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Social Exodus
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Post 06 Oct 2021

gullum wrote:
06 Oct 2021
do you expect any of these DAWs to come with updates in the coming years? if yes aren't they all unfinished then?
IMO it think is only a step sideways you can do most of the same things and come to a final product that sounds good to amazing only the road to Rome are different
Well, when you say it like that...lol

Seriously though, I meant in the context of a dedicated release.

Don't get me wrong -- I LOVE using Reason, but I am concerned for the future with them in all honesty. Too many things in the recent past that break with what Propellerheads originally envisioned INHO.

On the other hand, I am 62 years old, and maybe it just doesn't matter lol. I just LOVE a good sale.
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Social Exodus
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Post 06 Oct 2021

bxbrkrz wrote:
06 Oct 2021
$225, if your one album brings you at least $20K?
https://reaperblog.net/2013/07/reaper-f ... orization/

You forgot to list the pros and cons of Studio One.
Well, off the top of my head...

Drag and drop interface. One window (or not) workflow. Scene presets and automation. (Seemingly) Decent set of mastering tools. (Seemingly)Decent built in synths (but Reason rules there). Mixing seems intuitive and making parallel channels with a compressor (for example) on one with dry on the other looks to be a snap. But too, Reason's way isn't rocket surgery I suppose. Melodyne is built right into the interface, not a separate plugin (as does Reason with Pitch Edit).VST 3 support. Composer interface with Notion that follows MIDI note population in real time..
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Chi-Individual
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Post 06 Oct 2021

I've had S1 for a few years now and I think of it as being the perfect reflection of what Reason is missing. Besides a few instances where you have to menu dive it's pretty intuitive. The built in FX are very good for getting a clean clear mix, no frills, you'd need something else to really get some color or warmth. I'm still ITB with Reason atm solely because I can still create much faster in Reason because of muscle memory. The built in synths honestly leave a ton to be desired for like the Reason sequencer, but that's in comparison to Reason's stock synths. But as a combo I can't think of a better match.

My absolute favorite and most intimidating feature about S1 is that almost everything you can think up can be set to a custom key command, if you can keep up with it all. Something Reason really needs.

And can't forget MIX VERSIONS!!!!! :clap: :thumbup: :thumbs_up:

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bxbrkrz
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Post 06 Oct 2021

Social Exodus wrote:
06 Oct 2021
bxbrkrz wrote:
06 Oct 2021
$225, if your one album brings you at least $20K?
https://reaperblog.net/2013/07/reaper-f ... orization/

You forgot to list the pros and cons of Studio One.
Well, off the top of my head...

Drag and drop interface. One window (or not) workflow. Scene presets and automation. (Seemingly) Decent set of mastering tools. (Seemingly)Decent built in synths (but Reason rules there). Mixing seems intuitive and making parallel channels with a compressor (for example) on one with dry on the other looks to be a snap. But too, Reason's way isn't rocket surgery I suppose. Melodyne is built right into the interface, not a separate plugin (as does Reason with Pitch Edit).VST 3 support. Composer interface with Notion that follows MIDI note population in real time..
Notice you've listed the pros. None of the cons. You've already made the purchase in your head already :puf_smile:
And you said it was a great deal. Why waste time here. Just buy it :thumbs_up:
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Social Exodus
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Post 06 Oct 2021

bxbrkrz wrote:
06 Oct 2021
Social Exodus wrote:
06 Oct 2021


Well, off the top of my head...

Drag and drop interface. One window (or not) workflow. Scene presets and automation. (Seemingly) Decent set of mastering tools. (Seemingly)Decent built in synths (but Reason rules there). Mixing seems intuitive and making parallel channels with a compressor (for example) on one with dry on the other looks to be a snap. But too, Reason's way isn't rocket surgery I suppose. Melodyne is built right into the interface, not a separate plugin (as does Reason with Pitch Edit).VST 3 support. Composer interface with Notion that follows MIDI note population in real time..
Notice you've listed the pros. None of the cons. You've already made the purchase in your head already :puf_smile:
And you said it was a great deal. Why waste time here. Just buy it :thumbs_up:
Uhmmm...I'm asking for the cons actually. Having never used it and guessing that Presonus doesn't publish them easily, I decided to ask folks who have used it themselves.
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Benedict
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Post 06 Oct 2021

This may help:


Bottom line I think: Buy one and COMMIT is the best advice. As long as you have two+ on the drive and think that juggling maketh the better man, I think you will not progress as well.

- Cakebalk I want to like, even when I owned Sonar 2, but it has so many issues and is a failed product being babied (or fiddled) along - at least right now.
- Raper is very technically capable. BUUT so, so unintuitive.
- Studio One is like the Cubeass/ProFools style of DAW only done pretty nicely. There is a lot to like and it seems to be growing well.
- Bitwig is a dark horse and special like Reason
- But I am Reason as long as reason is able to run the project (here track counts being the hard limit)

:-)

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bxbrkrz
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Post 06 Oct 2021

Social Exodus wrote:
06 Oct 2021
bxbrkrz wrote:
06 Oct 2021

Notice you've listed the pros. None of the cons. You've already made the purchase in your head already :puf_smile:
And you said it was a great deal. Why waste time here. Just buy it :thumbs_up:
Uhmmm...I'm asking for the cons actually. Having never used it and guessing that Presonus doesn't publish them easily, I decided to ask folks who have used it themselves.
Now I understand. I was looking for the cons myself. Not that I am into Studio One, but it's fun to learn. I am doing the same with Reaper. The last time I used it was to support the Reaper project, still at 1.8.

Studio One 5 looks stunning, well polished.
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avasopht
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Post 06 Oct 2021

It depends mostly on your workflow and how well you vibe with the DAW.

Studio One is pretty solid and I'm not sure if there are any real warts (apart from some shortcomings when importing multiple waves into their sampler that I think NNXT makes far simpler).

If you're just using it as a bog-standard VST host, it will serve you well.

It's intuitive to use and most things make sense.

I could only recommend you try the demo.
---

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Social Exodus
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Post 06 Oct 2021

avasopht wrote:
06 Oct 2021
It depends mostly on your workflow and how well you vibe with the DAW.

Studio One is pretty solid and I'm not sure if there are any real warts (apart from some shortcomings when importing multiple waves into their sampler that I think NNXT makes far simpler).

If you're just using it as a bog-standard VST host, it will serve you well.

It's intuitive to use and most things make sense.

I could only recommend you try the demo.
Honestly, I'm trying to figure out just what my workflow actually is. I'm a guitarist, who dabbles extensively in synthesizers who is fascinated by the amount of things any given DAW can do -- since my first foray into "recording" was recording acoustic guitar with a buddy of mine on a TASCAM Portastudio cassette and ZERO effects available. We actually needed to play fairly flawlessly and sing on pitch all on our own!
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Benedict
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Post 06 Oct 2021

I would still say Reason for the uses given above as everything flows so well.

I also back the suggestion to try the S1 Demo or use the Prime version for a while. Prime has some hard limits but will get you there for recording etc. Synths will be a lot more limited with the Prime version alone.

I think for a DAW, the Reason synth+effect offering is pretty unrivaled. Esp for the Automation integration as well as CV and Combinator II.
Seeing you already seem to have that, why not just dig in and learn there?

Oh and learning to perform well in the first place is a basic thing as electromoronically altered performances lose far more than they gain; unless, of course, you want to have that emotionless emo thing.

:-)

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guitfnky
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Post 06 Oct 2021

one thing I’ve realized recently is that Reason’s workflow is really good for me, but not because it’s built well, so much as I know what I’m doing. I know it well enough that when a scenario comes up, I already know what I need to do to get it done.

the takeaway then, is that it’s kind of impossible to accurately compare DAW workflows until you’re very comfortable with the DAWs you’re comparing. it’s really easy to say “Reason has a great workflow”, and “Cakewalk has a terrible workflow” if you’re familiar with Reason, and only just learning Cakewalk.

I felt the same initially going from Reason to Ableton Live—I thought Reason was great, and everything in Live seemed clunky. but it’s not. it was my failure to familiarize myself before trying to compare, not a failing of Ableton to deliver a good workflow.

I’ve come to prefer Live’s workflow, but still have a lot of learning to do. but more importantly for anyone thinking about trying another DAW, you shouldn’t take my word, or anyone else’s word for it. the best suggestion is to try it out yourself, until you’re capable of doing the same stuff in the other DAW that you can do in Reason. by then you should have a pretty clear understanding of which will work best for you.
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Post 07 Oct 2021

Studio One is an excellent traditional DAW, but if I were looking for one which best complements the spirit of Reason as a semi-modular playground that encourages creative sound design and different approaches to music making, I would look at Bitwig. It seems like the most Reason nerd friendly DAW on the market right now. Something few of them have been able to capture though, at least for me, is the almost-indescribable fun factor of Reason. It's probably just nostalgia clouding my brain, but it still holds true for me.
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DaveyG
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Post 07 Oct 2021

I'm a big Studio One fan - it's been my main DAW for a few years now. It just seems to fit with me. If you do decide to crossgrade it's worth waiting until Black Friday when you are likely to save another 30% on the price if previous years are anything to go by.

Onkel Paul
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Post 07 Oct 2021

Hi Steve,
I already made the switch via the crossgrade and I am so happy I did.
It opened up a new world.
There is workflow for sure, and you can tailor the DAW to your need in a VERY flexible way.
But another big advantage is integration.
Studio One integrates Melodyne and other software via ARA
Integrates the Sound Variations of VSL (hopefully more to come) easily
Integrates its own Notation Program Notion
And integrates its own Hardware seamlessly.
This hardware integration is important. With Faderports, Audio Interfaces, Atom Controllers and Monitoring Controllers you have scalable environment available that gives you dedicated and tightly integrated Control surfaces to build a full blown production environment.
So, the crossgrade is a step up, and a first step on a ladder that can go up higher and higher.

ravasb
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Post 07 Oct 2021

Studio One is great for sequencing, audio editing and mixing, all of which I find frustrating in Reason. I use Reason for creative ideas and export the stems to Studio One. It’s a good combination.

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dan_g
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Post 07 Oct 2021

my first DAW was reason (after magix and the predecessor of FL). and i feel at home in Reason. My Workflow ist fast and i can accomplish all i want musically and Technically.

i'm also demoing studio one 5 atm. coming from r10 and just updated to 12.

I must say the interface of S1 feels very cluttered and unintuitive to me, coming straight from reason. surely i need to give it some time to test but atm i can not see me using it as my main daw.
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Social Exodus
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Post 07 Oct 2021

Benedict wrote:
06 Oct 2021
This may help:
I actually watched your video in my preliminary look-see into Studio One. Very well done BTW. Dowloading Prime is a great idea and I'll likely do that after work today.
guitfnky wrote:
06 Oct 2021
one thing I’ve realized recently is that Reason’s workflow is really good for me, but not because it’s built well, so much as I know what I’m doing. I know it well enough that when a scenario comes up, I already know what I need to do to get it done.

the takeaway then, is that it’s kind of impossible to accurately compare DAW workflows until you’re very comfortable with the DAWs you’re comparing. it’s really easy to say “Reason has a great workflow”, and “Cakewalk has a terrible workflow” if you’re familiar with Reason, and only just learning Cakewalk.

I felt the same initially going from Reason to Ableton Live—I thought Reason was great, and everything in Live seemed clunky. but it’s not. it was my failure to familiarize myself before trying to compare, not a failing of Ableton to deliver a good workflow.

I’ve come to prefer Live’s workflow, but still have a lot of learning to do. but more importantly for anyone thinking about trying another DAW, you shouldn’t take my word, or anyone else’s word for it. the best suggestion is to try it out yourself, until you’re capable of doing the same stuff in the other DAW that you can do in Reason. by then you should have a pretty clear understanding of which will work best for you.
You make some excellent points here. Familiarity is the key to success in many things after all. Would you rather do a job in an environment you know well but has limitations, or stumble around in a more capable environment trying to figure out what you could already have done in the familiar? I tend to stick with what works for me and "jumping ship" is something I think long and hard about. Thanks.
DaveyG wrote:
07 Oct 2021
I'm a big Studio One fan - it's been my main DAW for a few years now. It just seems to fit with me. If you do decide to crossgrade it's worth waiting until Black Friday when you are likely to save another 30% on the price if previous years are anything to go by.
Right now, I can get Studio One Professional for $209 USD out the door. Pretty darn deep discount which is why I am considering it to begin with.
Onkel Paul wrote:
07 Oct 2021
Hi Steve,
I already made the switch via the crossgrade and I am so happy I did.
It opened up a new world.
There is workflow for sure, and you can tailor the DAW to your need in a VERY flexible way.
But another big advantage is integration.
Studio One integrates Melodyne and other software via ARA
Integrates the Sound Variations of VSL (hopefully more to come) easily
Integrates its own Notation Program Notion
And integrates its own Hardware seamlessly.
This hardware integration is important. With Faderports, Audio Interfaces, Atom Controllers and Monitoring Controllers you have scalable environment available that gives you dedicated and tightly integrated Control surfaces to build a full blown production environment.
So, the crossgrade is a step up, and a first step on a ladder that can go up higher and higher.
Tight integration actually sounds attractive to me. I should have mentioned that I have a Nektar Panorama P4 which is integrated into both Reason and Reaper (Cakewalk chokes on it since their is no softwar to tell it what to do lol). I also see that my keyboard integrates extremely well with Studio One which is a HUGE plus to me.

I've hesitated to uninstall and forget about Cakewalk/SONAR simply because I was heavily invested in it for a class at Berklee I was taking. I actually got SONAR Platinum free because I participated in a study by Cakewalk that took several hours and they comped me with it. Thing is, it integrates with nothing I have except basic keyboard functionality. I think that if I do jump to S1 later today, I will have to eat the loss and move on there.

Reaper was $60 which is less than I've spent on many plugins so I could easily just keep it around.

I may be talking myself into this lol
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Jackjackdaw
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Post 07 Oct 2021

Get it. Delete Reaper and Cakewalk. Run the RRP into it. Learn it inside out and don’t look back. And when Ableton or Steinberg or Bitwig send you an unbelievable cross grade offer ignore them and stand by your original decision.

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Social Exodus
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Post 07 Oct 2021

Jackjackdaw wrote:
07 Oct 2021
Get it. Delete Reaper and Cakewalk. Run the RRP into it. Learn it inside out and don’t look back. And when Ableton or Steinberg or Bitwig send you an unbelievable cross grade offer ignore them and stand by your original decision.
That is my general sense of things as well as this point. I wan' the DAW I use going forward to be future proofed inasmuch as it can be. This way, I don't have to abandon my significant investment in Reason.

Thanks for tipping the scales here, and to all of you who answered. Studio One seemed to be exactly what I need going forward to immerse myself into this stuff. And at this price, it's the same as upgrading to Reason 12.
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Chi-Individual
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Post 07 Oct 2021

Just a couple of plusses for S1 for me


I downloaded the iPad app last month and got a bit overwhelmed but to be able to customize almost any macro is just something I haven't heard from any other DAW that uses the iPad.

watch the 3 vids in this series.
I got an Atom SQ last year specifically to use with Reason while I learn S1 and I can say with the built in integration and the freedom to customize it, it breaks down S1 to workflow and muscle memory just like Reason. The only problem with the Atom SQ though is it was built without an "On/Off" button. But I solved that with a usb hub.

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Social Exodus
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Post 07 Oct 2021

Chi-Individual wrote:
07 Oct 2021
Just a couple of plusses for S1 for me


I downloaded the iPad app last month and got a bit overwhelmed but to be able to customize almost any macro is just something I haven't heard from any other DAW that uses the iPad.

watch the 3 vids in this series.
I got an Atom SQ last year specifically to use with Reason while I learn S1 and I can say with the built in integration and the freedom to customize it, it breaks down S1 to workflow and muscle memory just like Reason. The only problem with the Atom SQ though is it was built without an "On/Off" button. But I solved that with a usb hub.
I currently have a Korg padKontrol - will that at least work for a while do you think? I really use it in Reason actually since I have a Panorama P4
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Onkel Paul
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Post 07 Oct 2021

Steve, there is one more thing to consider. As you say you are in recording, when you demo S1 have a look at the way you can configure the mixer. You can easyly set up different Que mixes. You can have the audio inputs of the interface displayed. If you use sonarworks, you can have the corrections rendered into your monitor mix without affecting the "taped" version. Or have a "reference Track" you can switch to.
By the way, I do have a panorama myself. It is very well integrated indeed.
When I made the switch I comforted myself that with the crossgrade I made a bargain (getting some of my invest in Reason back), could use Reason Suite within S1 and my Invest in the Panorama was not lost.

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