Reason 12 has arrived

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moofi
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Post 28 Sep 2021

These pictures are exactly how I see it on screen here at 100% zoom level.
guitfnky wrote:
28 Sep 2021
moofi wrote:
28 Sep 2021
I finally made a comparison check on the visual appearance of Reason 12 + 7.
I wanted to do so because I felt like their was quite a difference regarding readability.
Indeed Reason 7 has way better contrasts thatfor it´s quite doable to decipher the small labelings well even though they are pretty small, Reason 12 not so very much.

I don´t know wether it´s been posted elsewhere, couldn´t find anything spontaneously.
these pics aren't too helpful in seeing what's different, since both are very low res. to be expected with 7, but 12 should look far sharper. not saying you're not right, but I don't think these particular pics make the case very well, that's all.

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avasopht
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Post 28 Sep 2021

Jackjackdaw wrote:
28 Sep 2021
This was discussed in the beta forum. They did give a reasonable explanation but I can't remember what it was.
Looks like the effects of antialiasing text and graphics that target a higher resolution.

Text rendering algorithms have been dealing with antialiasing for decades, so they don't use the same methods for images.

I can think of a few reasons for the differences
1. Some graphic elements such as the square and sawtooth pulse next the length mode toggle used pixel graphics before R12 at the native resolution. The R12 version isn't doing that.
2. some of the text is closer together while suffering from poor pixel alignment - causing more pixel aliasing issues.
3. the v7 text was probably rendered in Photoshop, which has a variety of methods for text antialiasing.

In fact, I just took a screenshot of R12 at 240% and then downsampled it back down to 100% using mspaint and got a sharper image.

Image

Looking at it now, I think it might be mip-map interpolation.

It's the same as taking a sample rendered at 96k, and then creating an "optimized" keymap with the following specs:
1. Steep low pass filter at 24khz to make sample at 48khz
2. Steep low pass filter at 12khz to make sample at 24khz
3. Steep low pass filter at 6khz to make a sample at 12khz

But it will only upsample, so if you need 26khz, you'll use the sample rendered at 48khz. This prevents aliasing.

Mip-mapping goes a step further and adds zone blending so that near boundaries it will blend samples. It means there aren't sudden jumps between key zones. But this comes with the added cost of killing sharpness.

I'm pretty sure they're using mip-map interpolation based on the artefacts in the image (quite possibly misconfigured in a way that anti-aliasing makes it worse).
---

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moofi
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Post 28 Sep 2021

Yes, anti-alising or mip map interpolation could be the culprit. Maybe it´s a simple samplesetting or something they could tweak?
avasopht wrote:
28 Sep 2021
Jackjackdaw wrote:
28 Sep 2021
This was discussed in the beta forum. They did give a reasonable explanation but I can't remember what it was.
Looks like the effects of antialiasing text and graphics that target a higher resolution.

Text rendering algorithms have been dealing with antialiasing for decades, so they don't use the same methods for images.

I can think of a few reasons for the differences
1. Some graphic elements such as the square and sawtooth pulse next the length mode toggle used pixel graphics before R12 at the native resolution. The R12 version isn't doing that.
2. some of the text is closer together while suffering from poor pixel alignment - causing more pixel aliasing issues.
3. the v7 text was probably rendered in Photoshop, which has a variety of methods for text antialiasing.

In fact, I just took a screenshot of R12 at 240% and then downsampled it back down to 100% using mspaint and got a sharper image.

Image

Looking at it now, I think it might be mip-map interpolation.

It's the same as taking a sample rendered at 96k, and then creating an "optimized" keymap with the following specs:
1. Steep low pass filter at 24khz to make sample at 48khz
2. Steep low pass filter at 12khz to make sample at 24khz
3. Steep low pass filter at 6khz to make a sample at 12khz

But it will only upsample, so if you need 26khz, you'll use the sample rendered at 48khz. This prevents aliasing.

Mip-mapping goes a step further and adds zone blending so that near boundaries it will blend samples. It means there aren't sudden jumps between key zones. But this comes with the added cost of killing sharpness.

I'm pretty sure they're using mip-map interpolation based on the artefacts in the image (quite possibly misconfigured in a way that anti-aliasing makes it worse).

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Sus4
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Post 28 Sep 2021

Sorry if this is a non-sequitir, but it didn't seem like it warranted its own thread.
How does the built-in mixer in the new Combinator actually work? I haven't found any pictures or videos with it unfolded. If I add multiple instruments to a combi, are they (finally) just automatically connected without me needing to faff around with mergers? And does it work as an actual mixer?

Maybe someone could post a screencap of it unfolded?

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EnochLight
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Post 28 Sep 2021

Sus4 wrote:
28 Sep 2021
Sorry if this is a non-sequitir, but it didn't seem like it warranted its own thread.
How does the built-in mixer in the new Combinator actually work?
It's just an automatic summing mixer. Once you create a Combi (or drop any instruments into a Combi), they are automatically routed to 1 of the 8 available stereo channels. The are no channel controls on the mixer aside from 1 master volume.


mix_it_up.JPG
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Sus4
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Post 28 Sep 2021

Cheers.
Marginal improvement, then.

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EnochLight
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Post 28 Sep 2021

Yeah, marginal. I think the goal was simplicity. If you need more advanced features, then you just insert a 14:2 mixer, etc. But a simple summing mixer is good for most people to get started, I guess.
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

rickrubin
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Post 29 Sep 2021

any idea when the CPU usage will stop draining my computer and go back to normal? I'm working on a semi old macbook pro....

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EnochLight
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Post 29 Sep 2021

rickrubin wrote:
29 Sep 2021
any idea when the CPU usage will stop draining my computer and go back to normal? I'm working on a semi old macbook pro....
Time for a new machine?
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

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diminished
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Post 29 Sep 2021

rs.JPG
Just wanted to share this. From RS' very own latest video :)
Thanks to everyone still betatesting what they already paid for!
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:reason: Most recent track: resentment (synthwave) || Others: on my YouTube channel •ᴗ•

Steedus
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Post 29 Sep 2021

Working on a track tonight. Usual story: https://i.imgur.com/3k4QJu1.png :twisted:

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Loque
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Post 29 Sep 2021

diminished wrote:
29 Sep 2021
rs.JPG

Just wanted to share this. From RS' very own latest video :)
Thanks to everyone still betatesting what they already paid for!
One icon is vintage and gone through a LoFi fx. The other one went through an exciter.
Reason12, Win10

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diminished
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Post 29 Sep 2021

Steedus wrote:
29 Sep 2021
Working on a track tonight. Usual story: https://i.imgur.com/3k4QJu1.png :twisted:
Oh boy. Meanwhile I received an email from RS about my last chance to upgrade to R12 for 129€. See you guys in May 2022, when they eventually fixed the bugs that VST3 support introduced in January.. with a 50% discount on the upgrade. RS is no longer an exception to the standard "overpriced throughout the year vs. deep discounts on BF/MM" model in this industry. Sad, but I've made my peace.
:reason: Most recent track: resentment (synthwave) || Others: on my YouTube channel •ᴗ•

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joeyluck
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Post 29 Sep 2021

diminished wrote:
29 Sep 2021
rs.JPG

Just wanted to share this. From RS' very own latest video :)
Thanks to everyone still betatesting what they already paid for!
I don't see this. Must've been using an earlier version or maybe he even pulled earlier footage. Silly if that's your complaint though.

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hurricane
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Post 29 Sep 2021

The instrument folders still don't stay collapsed. Just want to put that out there for the billionth time. :x
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EnochLight
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Post 29 Sep 2021

joeyluck wrote:
29 Sep 2021
diminished wrote:
29 Sep 2021
rs.JPG

Just wanted to share this. From RS' very own latest video :)
Thanks to everyone still betatesting what they already paid for!
I don't see this. Must've been using an earlier version or maybe he even pulled earlier footage. Silly if that's your complaint though.
That Combi graphics bug was in the last stable channel release (12.2d36). I've got before and after photos in the d50 release thread. But I think his comment was alluding to paying R+ subscribers (and perpetual license at 12's official launch) having to deal with all of these bugs or glitches until today.
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

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joeyluck
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Post 29 Sep 2021

hurricane wrote:
29 Sep 2021
The instrument folders still don't stay collapsed. Just want to put that out there for the billionth time. :x
I'm guessing that might be addressed along with whatever the "smart browser" update is that is due soon?

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QVprod
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Post 29 Sep 2021

Bug fix + mostly hi-res sequencer update viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7524973

dezma
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Post 30 Sep 2021

So.. I was not planning to update to R12, however since moving to QHD screen, it is unusable (I now get all the High DPI frustrations).In fact High DPI should be a non paying update for R11, it's just so basic.

Just tried some of my main issues before I switched to studio one, using Reason as a rack.

You STILL cannot automate Avenger cutoff parameter without using combinator. I reported this bug in 2017.
You STILL cannot drag samples into a VST from the browser
You STILL cannot play wav loops in sync while playing the arrangement.
You STILL don't have midi folders.

It's becoming such a very sad story.. and now they plan to charge 199$ - good luck with that. R12 will hopefully be my last upgrade - ever.
Look at the list of changes any grown up DAW does (no reason is not part of that list) and you know this is grossly overpriced.

For the Euro customers: I ordered the upgrade in JRR shop, using USD currency. It ends up just under 100€.

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R303
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Joined: 15 Feb 2021

Post 30 Sep 2021

miscend wrote:
22 Sep 2021
R303 wrote:
22 Sep 2021
Thor (Compare).png


The font of the Thor was also not adopted 1 to 1 (C, D, S, ...). Slightly conservative now.
It's my favorite device design, therefore I took a closer look.
I feel like you're trying to get me to play a game of where's Waldo/spot the difference. What is C,D,S?
RoryM0 wrote:
22 Sep 2021
R303 wrote:
22 Sep 2021
The font of the Thor was also not adopted 1 to 1 (C, D, S, ...). Slightly conservative now.
It's my favorite device design, therefore I took a closer look.
I don't know what C/D/S is but R12 seems less clear than R11 in some ways, particularly text. It's harder to read on the panels and 'soft clip' looks to be in soft focus :D
To explain what I meant: It's another font in R12 (for example SELF OSC is different). C, D, S are the letters.
The point was, that's not identical to before.

R12 is not clear on my pic, because I don't own it :puf_wink: It's from a video.

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SoundObjects
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Post 30 Sep 2021

Tip:
If eg. using FXAA (on) in global 3D Nvidia settings, then graphic details getting blurred in R12.
Thise settings is normal used for games but now also applies for R12. ;)
The Universe Is Vibrating

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moofi
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Post 30 Sep 2021

Are you saying you got rid of the blurring in Reason 12 compared to previous versions?

Checked NVIDIA settings. Clicking on the program settings tab made it crash and because it opens with that tab now, it crashes instantly after opening :-D
Guess I have to update first if there is any available, restart at least or reinstall before being able to use it again, reason I´m currently asking.
SoundObjects wrote:
30 Sep 2021
Tip:
If eg. using FXAA (on) in global 3D Nvidia settings, then graphic details getting blurred in R12.
Thise settings is normal used for games but now also applies for R12. ;)

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SoundObjects
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Joined: 10 Dec 2018

Post 01 Oct 2021

moofi wrote:
30 Sep 2021
Are you saying you got rid of the blurring in Reason 12 compared to previous versions?

Checked NVIDIA settings. Clicking on the program settings tab made it crash and because it opens with that tab now, it crashes instantly after opening :-D
Guess I have to update first if there is any available, restart at least or reinstall before being able to use it again, reason I´m currently asking.
I haven't got issues with blurred graphic but it seems other have.
it's easy to test by turning FXAA setting on and off.
Leave it off if you don't want overall plurred text and graphics in R12.
Note - it dosn't fix other specific RS graphic issues.

If your PC crash when entering the Nvidia settings then you proberly have a defect driver.
The Universe Is Vibrating

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moofi
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Post 01 Oct 2021

No, it´s not the PC but the NVIDIA settings itself, so at least a little less dramatic ;-)
Simply gonna reinstall or install a potentially new version.

I actually already did turn off anything AA related in the global settings without any further effect. The crash loop just happened when I wanted to adjust it specifically for Reason in NDVIA´s individual program settings.
Anyway, going to install a new version even though it might not have an effect.

One thing I noticed though - when changing the zoom level from greater zooms to 100% it shortly shows the clear image perfectly just shortly afterwards it "applies" the blurriness on top again.
So it seems like there is an extra filtering layered on top that could potentially be removed.

SoundObjects wrote:
01 Oct 2021
moofi wrote:
30 Sep 2021
Are you saying you got rid of the blurring in Reason 12 compared to previous versions?

Checked NVIDIA settings. Clicking on the program settings tab made it crash and because it opens with that tab now, it crashes instantly after opening :-D
Guess I have to update first if there is any available, restart at least or reinstall before being able to use it again, reason I´m currently asking.
I haven't got issues with blurred graphic but it seems other have.
it's easy to test by turning FXAA setting on and off.
Leave it off if you don't want overall plurred text and graphics in R12.
Note - it dosn't fix other specific RS graphic issues.

If your PC crash when entering the Nvidia settings then you proberly have a defect driver.

madwurmz
Posts: 41
Joined: 06 May 2021

Post 01 Oct 2021

joeyluck wrote:
29 Sep 2021
diminished wrote:
29 Sep 2021
rs.JPG

Just wanted to share this. From RS' very own latest video :)
Thanks to everyone still betatesting what they already paid for!
I don't see this. Must've been using an earlier version or maybe he even pulled earlier footage. Silly if that's your complaint though.
I have reason 12 ready to install, but these little details are signs that tell me to wait, i'm reading about the little bugs and i'm keeping track of the updates because I'm very optimistic about reason's future, but for now i keep using 11. but the 12.2.1 update sounds great already though! :reason: :clap:
madwurmz from planet verbs

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