Reason 12 has arrived

[Eprom]

Back to the topic of "Reason 12 has arrived", which is soon going to be eclipsed in responses by the price increase thread,...

That thread has been miraculously closed today.

It turns out Reason Studio's isn't as interested in what the users have to say as they claim

[Loque]

Back to the topic of "Reason 12 has arrived", which is soon going to be eclipsed in responses by the price increase thread,...

That thread has been miraculously closed today.

It turns out Reason Studio's isn't as interested in what the users have to say as they claim

RS is not moderating, managing or involved in this forum in any way.
If they are here and talk to you, fine.
If they are not here or leave, bad luck for you.

[EnochLight]

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image_2021-09-22_155454.png

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yep.jpg

I do agree that the darker colors need some work, though.

[jamespember]

So I have R11, that is working fine, and R12 that I can't use at the moment due to performance issues.
So I use R11 in the meantime.
But I wonder what have happened if I was a Reason+ user... I suppose it's impossible to revert to a safe situation once you have upgraded to the last Reason+ version ?

No it's not impossible at all. If you are a R+ sub and want to revert to R11 temporarily you can of course do that.

[guitfnky]

So I have R11, that is working fine, and R12 that I can't use at the moment due to performance issues.
So I use R11 in the meantime.
But I wonder what have happened if I was a Reason+ user... I suppose it's impossible to revert to a safe situation once you have upgraded to the last Reason+ version ?

No it's not impossible at all. If you are a R+ sub and want to revert to R11 temporarily you can of course do that.

but you can’t revert projects saved in R+ to R11, right? you’re still SOL there, I’d imagine.

[R303]

Thor (Compare).png

The font of the Thor was also not adopted 1 to 1 (C, D, S, ...). Slightly conservative now.
It's my favorite device design, therefore I took a closer look.

[Billy+]

No it's not impossible at all. If you are a R+ sub and want to revert to R11 temporarily you can of course do that.

but you can’t revert projects saved in R+ to R11, right? you’re still SOL there, I’d imagine.

Also you won't be able to access any of the content packs as there all built using CMBv2

[miscend]

I’ve been using v12 for a few days now & unfortunately it’s extremely glitchy.
For me, it’s as bad as v11.

Reason v11 is very stable, are you running a legit copy otherwise it might be your computer?

[miscend]

Thor (Compare).png


The font of the Thor was also not adopted 1 to 1 (C, D, S, ...). Slightly conservative now.
It's my favorite device design, therefore I took a closer look.

I feel like you're trying to get me to play a game of where's Waldo/spot the difference. What is C,D,S?

[EnochLight]

No it's not impossible at all. If you are a R+ sub and want to revert to R11 temporarily you can of course do that.

but you can’t revert projects saved in R+ to R11, right? you’re still SOL there, I’d imagine.

Also you won't be able to access any of the content packs as there all built using CMBv2

That's not entirely true, Billy+. There is 7 month's worth of Sound Packs released prior to Reason 12 that work just fine in Reason 11, and these can even be used if you cancel your R+ sub (once you download a Pack, you have them forever).

[RoryM0]

The font of the Thor was also not adopted 1 to 1 (C, D, S, ...). Slightly conservative now.
It's my favorite device design, therefore I took a closer look.

I don't know what C/D/S is but R12 seems less clear than R11 in some ways, particularly text. It's harder to read on the panels and 'soft clip' looks to be in soft focus

[Billy+]

Also you won't be able to access any of the content packs as there all built using CMBv2

That's not entirely true, Billy+. There is 7 month's worth of Sound Packs released prior to Reason 12 that work just fine in Reason 11, and these can even be used if you cancel your R+ sub (once you download a Pack, you have them forever).

Sorry maybe I should have explained that I was referring to content packs released from R12 launch and into the future have been made incompatible with Reason 11 due to the use of CMBv2 unfortunately especially as the last few I checked where only using 4 knobs and buttons and could have easily been made to work with previous version if RS wanted to rather than rushing out an unpolished major version

[AttenuationHz]

That's not entirely true, Billy+. There is 7 month's worth of Sound Packs released prior to Reason 12 that work just fine in Reason 11, and these can even be used if you cancel your R+ sub (once you download a Pack, you have them forever).

Sorry maybe I should have explained that I was referring to content packs released from R12 launch and into the future have been made incompatible with Reason 11 due to the use of CMBv2 unfortunately especially as the last few I checked where only using 4 knobs and buttons and could have easily been made to work with previous version if RS wanted to rather than rushing out an unpolished major version

Not having backwards compatibility is a nightmare especially given the poor state of Reason 12!

[Billy+]

Sorry maybe I should have explained that I was referring to content packs released from R12 launch and into the future have been made incompatible with Reason 11 due to the use of CMBv2 unfortunately especially as the last few I checked where only using 4 knobs and buttons and could have easily been made to work with previous version if RS wanted to rather than rushing out an unpolished major version

Not having backwards compatibility is a nightmare especially given the poor state of Reason 12!

It's certainly not worth upgrading to at the moment and almost certainly not worth the extra price come the end of the month.

I was on the fence about the upgrade (if you can call it an upgrade) I was definitely going to wait until January and see how much of the roadmap was completed as it might have been worth it by then

[EnochLight]

We were literally just talking about this in the beta forum. Backwards compatibility isn't something we got when Parsec was updated from 1 to 2, and when RV7000 was updated to MK2, among other examples. Simply put - Combinator 2 just offers too many changes that would make backwards compatibility a problem. At some point you have to cut your losses, I suppose.

[jamespember]

No it's not impossible at all. If you are a R+ sub and want to revert to R11 temporarily you can of course do that.

but you can’t revert projects saved in R+ to R11, right? you’re still SOL there, I’d imagine.

Yes, that is also correct. But I assumed the user above was talking about whether you are even able to log in to Reason 11 with a subscription, which you can. But yes, projects aren't backwards compatible.

[joeyluck]

Isn't Reason backward compatible, but not forward compatible?

[Pepin]

Loading a v12 file in v11 is "forward compatibility" not "backwards compatibility", and no version of Reason has supported that afaik.

[AttenuationHz]

We were literally just talking about this in the beta forum. Backwards compatibility isn't something we got when Parsec was updated from 1 to 2, and when RV7000 was updated to MK2, among other examples. Simply put - Combinator 2 just offers too many changes that would make backwards compatibility a problem. At some point you have to cut your losses, I suppose.

Except those devices were introduced many moons ago and where not exclusively needed to make song files or combinator patches work. There was replaceable alternatives you could use also if it was an issue. But given that it is too late to change those and very few users will still be on pre Reason 8 that is a non-issue for the Backwards Compatibility issue of the new combi. Backwards compatibility looking forwards is something that would need to be addressed. It will be 7 months of content that is only compatible with R11 and below, 1 year from now there will be 12 months of content users "that have that content for life" will be potentially missing out on. Not having backwards compatibility is one of the biggest flaws of the new combinator.

Will most content be configured to make use of the new customisation, most likely. However the case in point that billy+ pointed out here; where the new combi is not customised it still isn't compatible with past versions and the predecessor. I brought this issue up in the feedback I provided in this very thread roughly 2 weeks ago which was eagerly dismissed - using .cmb2 patches instead or keeping the old combinator so it doesn't break compatibility for past versions. If someone is on version 12 and wants to collaborate with someone on v11 the person on version 12 can't share any combinator patches so that makes the v12 combi pretty much void in that regard. The combinator has always been the way to get around version issues.

[AttenuationHz]

Loading a v12 file in v11 is "forward compatibility" not "backwards compatibility", and no version of Reason has supported that afaik.

Loading a v12 file in v11 doesn't work so in that sense song files are not backwards compatible they never have been. However .cmb patches always have been backwards compatible. Loading a v11 song file in v12 is forward compatible as is the .cmb patch.

.cmb patches have always had forwards and backwards compatibility.

[joeyluck]

Loading a v12 file in v11 is "forward compatibility" not "backwards compatibility", and no version of Reason has supported that afaik.

Loading a v12 file in v11 doesn't work so in that sense song files are not backwards compatible they never have been. However .cmb patches always have been backwards compatible. Loading a v11 song file in v12 is forward compatible as is the .cmb patch.

.cmb patches have always had forwards and backwards compatibility.

Reason itself is backward compatible, but not forward compatible.

The combinator itself is also backward compatible, but not forward compatible with the new combinatior in R12.

Right?

[AttenuationHz]

Reason itself is backward compatible, but not forward compatible.

The combinator itself is also backward compatible, but not forward compatible with the new combinatior in R12.

Right?

no

[joeyluck]

Reason itself is backward compatible, but not forward compatible.

The combinator itself is also backward compatible, but not forward compatible with the new combinatior in R12.

Right?

no

backward.png

forward.png

[EnochLight]

However the case in point that Billy+ pointed out here; where the new combi is not customised it still isn't compatible with past versions and the predecessor.

The issue is, at some point you just have to rip the bandaid off and move on. The new Combinator is literally designed from the ground up so it can easily be updated, and more features are indeed planned. At what point do you keep messing with old code just to keep things "backwards compatible" for the few holdouts that don't upgrade? At the expense of holding back new features for the new Combinator that we've been asking for... for over 15 years? The source range doesn't exist on the original Combi, but we have it now in Combi 2, so I'm not sure how that could be handled.

I dunno - many people made a good case for having the buttons/knobs put back on the main mixer, and I am in total agreement with that now. But hassling with backwards compatibility just so people can open new Combi presets in the old Combi in R11 and older? Yeah, that's gonna' take a lot more convincing. but... I'm not the one ya'all have to convince.

[Billy+]

Just because I'm being used for points here let me just explain

First off

When I open a content pack and every patch is inside a new CMBv2 it would be nice if the patch called for at least some "new" feature but when it's just a synth patch that's using knobs to control cutoff etc then I don't see any other reason for protecting them inside the CMBv2 files

If a simple patch is created then leave it as a device patch, I could use that in any version instead of having to access the content in R12 and save the actual files outside the CMBv2 format

Second

I really am just not seeing CMBv2 as an "update", yes it's bigger, yes it's got a new control and yes we can have more of them but is that actually better than controls being accessed directly on the devices using external midi controls or automation?

I was hoping for stepped knobs with individual steps having programmable values
Or faders with more complex slopes etc.

I don't really care for the discussion to much that's why I've been avoiding the thread, I'm actually ok with waiting for actually updates that are actually available and if that's going to cost more I'm fine with that

but I'm not buying into this buy it now and hopefully we will do it in January 2022 approach.

R12 might have arrived but the wheels fell off the windows don't open so the ignition not working isn't that much of a problem