Reason 12 has arrived

[Aquila]

What else needs to be added here?

You can no longer edit user-defined insert controls via the mixer or any hardware controller connected/locked to the mixer.

- thats an issue I need to figure out a workaround for before I upgrade

[Billy+]

RRP is not a subscription-only thing at all. It's relevant to people who have full licenses no less than those who subscribe.

The current pricing either suggests the DAW is worthless or that the plugin license is overpriced, having to purchase a separate DAW.

Reason and RRP are one in the same?
You can subscribe €$£20 or buy €$£129 for the upgrade?

[avasopht]

RRP is not a subscription-only thing at all. It's relevant to people who have full licenses no less than those who subscribe.

The current pricing either suggests the DAW is worthless or that the plugin license is overpriced, having to purchase a separate DAW.

I'm not following.

I have R10. By upgrading to R12, I get all the features of R11 and R12.

[alipi]

Reason and RRP are one in the same?
You can subscribe €$£20 or buy €$£129 for the upgrade?

I'm not following.
I have R10. By upgrading to R12, I get all the features of R11 and R12.

The plugin and the DAW are bundled for the same price. If I'm switching DAW and want to buy the plugin I'm not paying for the relic of an abandoned DAW. If I'm paying full DAW price then I expect the DAW to be actively developed not just fund the plugin.

[Billy+]

Reason and RRP are one in the same?
You can subscribe €$£20 or buy €$£129 for the upgrade?

I'm not following.
I have R10. By upgrading to R12, I get all the features of R11 and R12.

The plugin and the DAW are bundled for the same price. If I'm switching DAW and want to buy the plugin I'm not paying for the relic of an abandoned DAW. If I'm paying full DAW price then I expect the DAW to be actively developed not just fund the plugin.

It doesn't matter how you want to use it, it's the same thing?

As someone who is only interested in using Reason standalone I can very happily say it's not worth the price to me.

but for anyone who is using it as a plugin then you just got an excellent upgrade RRP actually benefits from the zoom which is pointless in standalone.

we all got a new device generally £60-£90 and CMBv2 adds interest to both daw and plugin?

[EnochLight]

The plugin and the DAW are bundled for the same price. If I'm switching DAW and want to buy the plugin I'm not paying for the relic of an abandoned DAW. If I'm paying full DAW price then I expect the DAW to be actively developed not just fund the plugin.

1. The cost is the same - you buy RRP and get a free DAW; you buy Reason DAW and you get free RRP. You can use either, or both. No big deal.
2. For the millionth time, Reason DAW is neither abandoned nor a relic. Jesus Christ, man.

[tai]

Nice. I thought they finally had come to their senses, so I turned my reward points into a voucher code, but alas..

rwrds.JPG

Misleading, innit? Here's a suggestion for RS: honor the frickin rewards voucher codes.

reward points only work for reward shop items

[tai]

question: can you add the reason 12 perpetual licene to the Ignition Key on pc? (win10)

[dasmode]

question: can you add the reason 12 perpetual licene to the Ignition Key on pc? (win10)

yes

[AttenuationHz]

What has changed?
If you have multiple devices in an insert you now need to combine first before you can save. So one extra click is added to the process.
BUT, now you CAN put multiple Combinators in the insert.
What has not changed:
You still cannot save inserts that use multiple Combinators (but now the additional Combinators don’t have to live OUTSIDE the insert).

What else needs to be added here?

It is not one extra click. It's multiple clicks as opposed to the one click it would and should be if the combinator was still on the Mix Channel or at the very least the file browser. Any inserts will first have to be selected so you can combine them, so it first becomes a decision that is dependant on how many devices are in the chain that you want to combine, it is then 2 clicks to combine them (a right and left click) - multiple clicks. It is not about what has not changed, you could start a whole other discussion about that.

I find it extremely worrying that moderators seem to be doing their best to derail the thread by trying to invalidate opposing opinions with poorly thought out arguments. It is user based feedback, that is all. Are any of you in a position to change how the Mix Channel now works?

[gullum]

It is not one extra click. It's multiple clicks as opposed to the one click it would and should be if the combinator was still on the Mix Channel or at the very least the file browser. Any inserts will first have to be selected so you can combine them, so it first becomes a decision that is dependant on how many devices are in the chain that you want to combine, it is then 2 clicks to combine them (a right and left click) - multiple clicks. It is not about what has not changed, you could start a whole other discussion about that.

I find it extremely worrying that moderators seem to be doing their best to derail the thread by trying to invalidate opposing opinions with poorly thought out arguments. It is user based feedback, that is all. Are any of you in a position to change how the Mix Channel now works?

I still stand by my statement I made several times we did lose something no matter how these mods try to twist it I can no longer use my controllers to the inserts as I could in 11 so I lost control of the knobs and button that I could control since record was introduced in reason 5. I know they are making a workaround but it will not be the same because it's just a workaround and you still can't save the inserts because they will still be a combinator inside the inserts.

[Billy+]

Reason 11

V11MixChannel.png (163.82 KiB) Viewed 35461 times

Reason 12

V12MixChannel.png (40 KiB) Viewed 35461 times

empty there looks to be a big difference, but when in use the new version is actually better.


you can do this, which give much more controls

mixchannelsetR12a.gif (649.35 KiB) Viewed 35456 times

The only thing I would change is the combine feature as you loose the controls and I definitely think that they could make it so that the controls got added

[gullum]

you can do this, which give much more controls

mixchannelsetR12a.gif

no it does not give more controls because it is not the mixer but a combinator therefor you need to change the lock device to the combinator and lose control over the mixer. People that are not using controllers and only using the mouse might have more controls but us that have invested money on controllers did loose something and our workflow is broken. I however fully except that Reason is not developed for me alone, but saying that we lost nothing is a lie.

And as joeylock has stated there is coming a workaround so the first 4 knob and buttons are still remote mapped

[pquenin]

R12 (standalone) is the first Reason update that will not work on my computer. I have put my money in it, but it's just unusable, each action is way too long or too slow.
There must be a "low res" option so that we can use R12 with the same performance as in R11. I have no problem with R11.
I have tried the Reason 12 plugin in Cakewalk, it's a bit better than the standalone R12, but slower than the R11 plugin.
I love the Reason DAW, but I think it's time for me to find something else. I'm very disapointed.

[Billy+]

you can do this, which give much more controls

mixchannelsetR12a.gif

no it does not give more controls because it is not the mixer but a combinator therefor you need to change the lock device to the combinator and lose control over the mixer. People that are not using controllers and only using the mouse might have more controls but us that have invested money on controllers did loose something and our workflow is broken. I however fully except that Reason is not developed for me alone, but saying that we lost nothing is a lie.

tbf I considered investing in dedicated controllers but decided against it as there's no such thing and until the developer of the software invests in developing hardware there's always going to be problems for people like yourself.

It's a shame to hear that you are having issues and forgive my ignorance but can you not program setting changes that allows you to overcome the issues?

I personally decided that my P6 was sufficiently dedicated for my personal usage and buying a mixer setup just wasn't worth the money and hassle to keep it working when changes occurred.

[jam-s]

What else needs to be added here?

Some 4+ rotaries and 4+ buttons that are part of the Mixer view and freely mapable to any (combi) control inside the mix channel.

[gullum]

no it does not give more controls because it is not the mixer but a combinator therefor you need to change the lock device to the combinator and lose control over the mixer. People that are not using controllers and only using the mouse might have more controls but us that have invested money on controllers did loose something and our workflow is broken. I however fully except that Reason is not developed for me alone, but saying that we lost nothing is a lie.

tbf I considered investing in dedicated controllers but decided against it as there's no such thing and until the developer of the software invests in developing hardware there's always going to be problems for people like yourself.

It's a shame to hear that you are having issues and forgive my ignorance but can you not program setting changes that allows you to overcome the issues?

I personally decided that my P6 was sufficiently dedicated for my personal usage and buying a mixer setup just wasn't worth the money and hassle to keep it working when changes occurred.

Unfortunately not at the moment because the mixer and combinator are to different devices so can be mapped to work as one I can however use my Behringer to control combinators (inserts) but I need to lock them to device or if I choose the blue arrow I'll get a new track in sequencer for every combinator (insert) track folder might solve that so it just moved up on my wish list

[Billy+]

tbf I considered investing in dedicated controllers but decided against it as there's no such thing and until the developer of the software invests in developing hardware there's always going to be problems for people like yourself.

It's a shame to hear that you are having issues and forgive my ignorance but can you not program setting changes that allows you to overcome the issues?

I personally decided that my P6 was sufficiently dedicated for my personal usage and buying a mixer setup just wasn't worth the money and hassle to keep it working when changes occurred.

Unfortunately not at the moment because the mixer and combinator are to different devices so can be mapped to work as one I can however use my Behringer to control combinators (inserts) but I need to lock them to device or if I choose the blue arrow I'll get a new track in sequencer for every combinator (insert) track folder might solve that so it just moved up on my wish list

Well I'm staying with V11 after my cheap subscription runs out as I just don't see any reason to upgrade, do you have any actual reason for the move or would staying in 11 for now work better

[gullum]

Unfortunately not at the moment because the mixer and combinator are to different devices so can be mapped to work as one I can however use my Behringer to control combinators (inserts) but I need to lock them to device or if I choose the blue arrow I'll get a new track in sequencer for every combinator (insert) track folder might solve that so it just moved up on my wish list

Well I'm staying with V11 after my cheap subscription runs out as I just don't see any reason to upgrade, do you have any actual reason for the move or would staying in 11 for now work better

I have actually saved most of my newer project in Reason 12 so can't open them in 11 and up until Sep 1. the inserts were in Reason + so yes I will need to upgrade if I am to use any of the songs I've worked on the last 2 months.

[jam-s]

I have actually saved most of my newer project in Reason 12 so can't open them in 11 and up until Sep 1. the inserts were in Reason + so yes I will need to upgrade if I am to use any of the songs I've worked on the last 2 months.

So the Reason+ lock-in trap worked on you. Sounds like a good business model to me.

[Billy+]

Well I'm staying with V11 after my cheap subscription runs out as I just don't see any reason to upgrade, do you have any actual reason for the move or would staying in 11 for now work better

I have actually saved most of my newer project in Reason 12 so can't open them in 11 and up until Sep 1. the inserts were in Reason + so yes I will need to upgrade if I am to use any of the songs I've worked on the last 2 months.

I've been treating V12 like a beta version and definitely won't be using it for actual production, I was hoping that they RS would put something in that would convince me to upgrade but it's definitely not going on my production machine and I fairly confident that even if they add my number one requested feature I'm still not going to be in any hurry to upgrade.

I can see that they have put a lot of work into it but just lately they have failed to make any real improvements as far as I'm concerned especially when you're looking at £129 for the upgrade, the focus is that of a plugin suite not a professional DAW so I'm happy to stay with R11. It's a shame as I've always preferred Reason standalone over any other DAW but the last two version have been ok at best, I haven't even installed the last few updates to 11 because I just couldn't see the point.

[AttenuationHz]

Reason 11
V11MixChannel.png

Reason 12
V12MixChannel.png

empty there looks to be a big difference, but when in use the new version is actually better.


you can do this, which give much more controls

mixchannelsetR12a.gif


The only thing I would change is the combine feature as you loose the controls and I definitely think that they could make it so that the controls got added

Don't miss understand here I'm not being ungrateful, I've said multiple times the new combinator is a wizardly coded device and is more than anyone could have hoped for as an upgrade. It is not the issue I have. It is not about how much more control you have, it is about the removal of features that are used more than is realised. The concern is, what is the next thing that is going to be removed?

Your screenshots point out something I had wanted to add but felt it would be have been a non-issue if the Mix Channel was integrated properly. That is: Just look at how much more vertical space the top part of Mix Channel takes up, this was a conscious change. It is a minor issue and there will be more scrolling to do with many devices and tracks in the rack but that is a moot point, the fact is it just looks terrible and doesn't sit right. There was absolutely no need to increase the height it would have been less triggering if that height increase was thought through more.

The big upset and fear the community had was that subscriptions will be how they will go about things from here on out, it was rightly a concern. Doesn't matter who you are in the community I can guarantee everyone had the thought in the back of their mind, even those that don't jump to conclusions before hearing what way it would play out. Everyone in the community was tested with that circumstance and if nobody was up in arms about it perpetual licences would be no more. The way I see it this is another experiment to see what can be gotten away with. Removal of used features is not something I will be willing to support. If my personal details were not shown in beta we wouldn't be having this discussion because I would have voiced all these concerns with the right people and made sure some sort of compromise was had and came into fruition.

[Billy+]

That's one of the main reason I decided not to engage with the beta as I didn't want fallout.
Another is that I wouldn't call it beta testing, more like machine testing,
More often than not people's suggestion have been ignored so what's the point..

You only need to read through this public forum to see the comments and suggestions that have been ignored to realise that they RS didn't want beta testers they just wanted numbers.......

[Aquila]

People that are not using controllers and only using the mouse might have more controls but us that have invested money on controllers did loose something and our workflow is broken. I however fully except that Reason is not developed for me alone, but saying that we lost nothing is a lie.

Nicely put!

And as joeylock has stated there is coming a workaround so the first 4 knob and buttons are still remote mapped

I can't see how this will fix the loss of controls for mixer controllers though, especially the master bus.

[QVprod]

you can do this, which give much more controls

mixchannelsetR12a.gif

no it does not give more controls because it is not the mixer but a combinator therefor you need to change the lock device to the combinator and lose control over the mixer. People that are not using controllers and only using the mouse might have more controls but us that have invested money on controllers did loose something and our workflow is broken. I however fully except that Reason is not developed for me alone, but saying that we lost nothing is a lie.

And as joeylock has stated there is coming a workaround so the first 4 knob and buttons are still remote mapped

I think the remote thing is a different argument, most of us didn’t think about it, but those reliant on controllers for that section of the mixer did in fact lose something. Easy oversight as I think many weren’t loading combis in the mix channels at all let alone with a controller. RS agreeing to some sort of fix for that is them acknowledging that as well.