reason 12 early access

[DaveyG]

RS promised early access to all of the new devices in R12 ...

No they didn't. They promised early access to some of the features.

[helmutson]

RS promised early access to all of the new devices in R12 ...

No they didn't. They promised early access to some of the features.

I said devices not features ...

... whatever, now we have the "real" thing and everybody is happy

[guitfnky]

RS promised early access to all of the new devices in R12 ...

No they didn't. They promised early access to some of the features.

what features? other than high res, and updated browser, there are no features, are there?

[helmutson]

No they didn't. They promised early access to some of the features.

what features? other than high res, and updated browser, there are no features, are there?

I don't think so ... maybe the brand new Groove mixer

[avasopht]

hey, if people want to throw money away, that's their business. nothing at all wrong with the business model, or deciding it works for you. but if someone points out that the math is probably not as favorable as it seems, and the knee-jerk reaction is to get defensive instead of pulling out a calculator and finding out what it actually means, well, yeah, that's about as boneheaded as it gets. if we plebes are getting screwed, more often than not, it's because we choose to.

I've pointed out that the math doesn't work out a few times and nobody has responded badly.

Difference is, I wasn't acting smug and arrogant about it.

I just presented the math. I also pointed out what else you could get for the same money in either subscriptions, or owned products.

So the reason people are responding to you in this way is because they're responding to your superiority attitude, not your logical argument.

And yet, someone may still find value in it.

[guitfnky]

hey, if people want to throw money away, that's their business. nothing at all wrong with the business model, or deciding it works for you. but if someone points out that the math is probably not as favorable as it seems, and the knee-jerk reaction is to get defensive instead of pulling out a calculator and finding out what it actually means, well, yeah, that's about as boneheaded as it gets. if we plebes are getting screwed, more often than not, it's because we choose to.

I've pointed out that the math doesn't work out a few times and nobody has responded badly.

Difference is, I wasn't acting smug and arrogant about it.

I just presented the math. I also pointed out what else you could get for the same money in either subscriptions, or owned products.

So the reason people are responding to you in this way is because they're responding to your superiority attitude, not your logical argument.

And yet, someone may still find value in it.

that gets to the fundamental point though--we put our feelings ahead of facts. humans are dumb like that. insistence on remaining dumb in the face of facts and rational thinking is frustrating, so I can only assume that frustration is what you're interpreting as smugness or arrogance. there's nothing smug or arrogant about pointing out weak thinking or other human failings. it is what it is.

[avasopht]

that gets to the fundamental point though--we put our feelings ahead of facts. humans are dumb like that. insistence on remaining dumb in the face of facts and rational thinking is frustrating, so I can only assume that frustration is what you're interpreting as smugness or arrogance. there's nothing smug or arrogant about pointing out weak thinking or other human failings. it is what it is.

Aah, ...

Look, ... I find the state of play more frustrating than anything. There's a lot of low hanging fruit being neglected for reasons I couldn't begin to imagine.

Still. That doesn't mean someone couldn't see value in the subscription for themselves that isn't a value for you.

For me, the value I could see in the subscription is that:
A - the cost is negligible
B - I get whatever they bring out
C - I'm always up to date
D - Just don't need to think about whether I want the next RS RE or not ... I just have it

I could see myself subscribing just because it's an easy thing to do and I wouldn't notice the cost anyway. I'm also more likely to experiment with some of the other REs more if I've just got it available.

Being readily available in the rack means I'm just more likely to one day decide to fiddle with it, or throw it on a track and see what I could do.

If it were £10/mo it would be a no-brainer. At £20/mo I might decline on the mere principle I don't think the right value offering at that price point (voting with my wallet) ... but maybe I will.

[tc13]

Why the F would I buy the the snooker place???? What would be the point of that? And the snooker place are'nt charging if I dont play? They charge me of I show up and want to play

I think you may have missed the analogy…
Reason+ WILL charge you, even if you don’t play. Sure, you can pause your subscription, but most people won’t, and, as we all know, that’s how they getcha!

Well if they don't pause it's their problem really. If you're that ignorant about your spending habits you really should change your habits and have a closer look on how your $ is spent

[EnochLight]

that gets to the fundamental point though--we put our feelings ahead of facts. humans are dumb like that. .. there's nothing smug or arrogant about pointing out weak thinking or other human failings. it is what it is.

I see. So from your perspective, people who subscribe to Reason+ are 1. dumb, 2. putting feelings ahead of facts, 3. weak thinking.

I gotta' say, I expected better of you guitfnky. It's really disappointing that you are so caught up in "being right", that you resort to this.

For me, the value I could see in the subscription is that:
A - the cost is negligible
B - I get whatever they bring out
C - I'm always up to date
D - Just don't need to think about whether I want the next RS RE or not ... I just have it

These 4 points are literally the reason I subscribe to Reason+. ** I am absolutely flabbergasted that I (and others like me) are thought of as "dumb" or "weak thinking". But, this is the Internet. The wild wild west of wackiness!

** I actually subscribe to Reason+, and also bought a perpetual license for my kid, so I guess that makes me double-dumb!

[AnotherMathias]

I think you may have missed the analogy…
Reason+ WILL charge you, even if you don’t play. Sure, you can pause your subscription, but most people won’t, and, as we all know, that’s how they getcha!

Well if they don't pause it's their problem really. If you're that ignorant about your spending habits you really should change your habits and have a closer look on how your $ is spent

Well that's the thing, I, and a lot of other people, try our best to be clever and think ahead about our spending. It's not myself, or those guys, that I'm worried about.
For context, I'm also against most state lotteries and gambling. We all know how those things have a tendency to grab onto the most desperate of people, and drain them dry. The way we tend to look at them with a "sucks to be you" attitude while happily taking advantage of their weakness makes me a bit queasy.

To be clear, Reason+ is NOT as bad as any of that. But for the kid fresh out of high school spending $240 per year for nothing he gets to keep, when he could have done very well having spent $99 ONCE (on Reason Intro, if it still existed), the yuck factor is still there for me.
Sure, even a high school can probably afford $240 each year. But it's not like this is the only monthly subscription cost he's likely to need. They all add up. Oh well, sucks to be him!

[guitfnky]

that gets to the fundamental point though--we put our feelings ahead of facts. humans are dumb like that. .. there's nothing smug or arrogant about pointing out weak thinking or other human failings. it is what it is.

I see. So from your perspective, people who subscribe to Reason+ are 1. dumb, 2. putting feelings ahead of facts, 3. weak thinking.

I gotta' say, I expected better of you guitfnky. It's really disappointing that you are so caught up in "being right", that you resort to this.

For me, the value I could see in the subscription is that:
A - the cost is negligible
B - I get whatever they bring out
C - I'm always up to date
D - Just don't need to think about whether I want the next RS RE or not ... I just have it

These 4 points are literally the reason I subscribe to Reason+. ** I am absolutely flabbergasted that I (and others like me) are thought of as "dumb" or "weak thinking". But, this is the Internet. The wild wild west of wackiness!

** I actually subscribe to Reason+, and also bought a perpetual license for my kid, so I guess that makes me double-dumb!

no, you misunderstand me. it’s dumb to continue to do it even if someone has already pointed it out. it’s not dumb to do it in the first place if you genuinely don’t know better (I was in credit debt for a good chunk of my early adulthood, so I get it).

and it’s only dumb then if there isn’t a good reason that it makes more sense to subscribe than to purchase outright. I’ve said in just about every response here there are good reasons for some folks to subscribe, so I’m not sure how this I has gotten put into such black and white terms.

I don’t know many people who think $240 a year is negligible to rent a piece of software and have nothing to own at the end of that. I of course include that in the “edge case” category. I get B, C, and D, but their value is directly related to A. since you think that chunk of change is negligible, and you’re getting value out of it, of course it makes sense.

really the thing that bugs me here is that those who I think have a tendency to carry RS’ water (as an aside—you’re not among them) are making a case that could actually potentially be harmful for other users. a bunch of people here have made some really shitty paper-thin arguments for why people should spend their hard earned money on a temporary software rental. impressionable people may see that and not think twice about signing up, before they’ve really thought through whether it makes the most sense for them. it’s the knee-jerk RS-can-do-no-wrong crowd that pisses me off. there’s a history of a few people here who put RS first and the community second, intentional or not. you may not like what I’m saying, and I’m well aware I rub a lot of people the wrong way, but I can tell you I say things like this and stick to my guns because I give a shit about the community. I know you can’t see where I’m coming from, or what’s in my heart, but I can.

[joeyluck]

Here's how it goes for the places I work. They figure their yearly spendings on software. They figure out if it's cheaper to subscribe, and most of the time it is. If they are spending the same amount or less per year to always be up to date, it makes more sense to subscribe.

That's the same approach I would take as an individual. Do your taxes. Look at your tax return. Figure out what software and plugins you use. Decide what helps you to save money.

[guitfnky]

Here's how it goes for the places I work. They figure their yearly spendings on software. They figure out if it's cheaper to subscribe, and most of the time it is. If they are spending the same amount or less per year to always be up to date, it makes more sense to subscribe.

how many times do I have to agree with you on this before it sinks in? ‍♂️

[joeyluck]

Here's how it goes for the places I work. They figure their yearly spendings on software. They figure out if it's cheaper to subscribe, and most of the time it is. If they are spending the same amount or less per year to always be up to date, it makes more sense to subscribe.

how many times do I have to agree with you on this before it sinks in? ‍♂️

I'm just sharing that for everybody.

[jam-s]

Here's how it goes for the places I work. They figure their yearly spendings on software. They figure out if it's cheaper to subscribe, and most of the time it is. If they are spending the same amount or less per year to always be up to date, it makes more sense to subscribe.

That's the same approach I would take as an individual. Do your taxes. Look at your tax return. Figure out what software and plugins you use. Decide what helps you to save money.

This can work for a while, but if enough people are on the subscription route and thus locked in the rent-not-own state, then a sudden increase in subscription fees can easily screw over your previous calculation.

Some food for thought:

[avasopht]

you may not like what I’m saying, and I’m well aware I rub a lot of people the wrong way, but I can tell you I say things like this and stick to my guns because I give a shit about the community. I know you can’t see where I’m coming from, or what’s in my heart, but I can.

If you have to persuade with insults, you can no longer claim to have a logical argument.

You are no longer being rational when relying on insults.

If you wanted to be logical you would present just the logic. Until you do that nobody will take your claims of being logical serious at all.

It's your choice. Do you want to be logical or emotional?

[guitfnky]

you may not like what I’m saying, and I’m well aware I rub a lot of people the wrong way, but I can tell you I say things like this and stick to my guns because I give a shit about the community. I know you can’t see where I’m coming from, or what’s in my heart, but I can.

If you have to persuade with insults, you can no longer claim to have a logical argument.

You are no longer being rational when relying on insults.

If you wanted to be logical you would present just the logic. Until you do that nobody will take your claims of being logical serious at all.

It's your choice. Do you want to be logical or emotional?

so who specifically did I insult?

and that’s a nice feel good sentiment, but these two things are not mutually exclusive.

[QVprod]

Here's how it goes for the places I work. They figure their yearly spendings on software. They figure out if it's cheaper to subscribe, and most of the time it is. If they are spending the same amount or less per year to always be up to date, it makes more sense to subscribe.

That's the same approach I would take as an individual. Do your taxes. Look at your tax return. Figure out what software and plugins you use. Decide what helps you to save money.

This can work for a while, but if enough people are on the subscription route and thus locked in the rent-not-own state, then a sudden increase in subscription fees can easily screw over your previous calculation.

You overvalue Reason's position in the market if you're concerned about a price increase. There are competing subscription services. Raising prices is usually a terrible idea when you have competition... especially when it's already pricier than the competition.

[EdwardKiy]

If you have to persuade with insults, you can no longer claim to have a logical argument.

who told you this garbage?

See what I did there? Could have just said that logic and insults are not mutually exclusive, but the argument is exactly the same in both cases.

[Loque]

Locked since R12 is not early access anymore.