Do you have any fun or exciting ideas for the new Combinator?

[avasopht]

Given Ryan’s teaser, refills are likely to skyrocket back into relevance. Looking forward to the creations.

If they tied refills to the account like rack extensions, I think they'd get a lot more third party support.

It could be like Kontakt where people are free to release unprotected refills, but companies who want added protection can also feel their content is safe.

And with their approach to Reason+ sound packs where they pay creators upfront, I think they're on the right track to making refills feel as powerful as they did in the early 00s

[nooomy]

Also is it possible to send sysex via midi out?

Lol! Reason has absolutely zero Sysex compability. When I think Sysex I think Atari days, which is why I've kept an ST for many years, powerful as ever in its own world.

Dude! I have a VST that send Sysex to my Korg Poly 800. I can control the VST with the new combinator and send Sysex!

You can now make controls for hardware synths that can receive sysex in Reason!

[nickb523]

Given Ryan’s teaser, refills are likely to skyrocket back into relevance. Looking forward to the creations.

Interesting, a couple of months back you guys were all looking at me as if I was the village idiot for saying ReFills are far from dead.

It's not looking great for RE's though as that's pretty much all this rinse and repeat Gorilla IDT stuff finished with (which is like 98% of the devices released within the past 2 years!). You've always been able to do more within the confines of the Combinator but you couldn't give it an interface, so now things are going to get very interesting, especially considering you are now going to get regular free "device" packs via Reason+.

Exciting times!

[bitley]

Lol! Reason has absolutely zero Sysex compability. When I think Sysex I think Atari days, which is why I've kept an ST for many years, powerful as ever in its own world.

Dude! I have a VST that send Sysex to my Korg Poly 800. I can control the VST with the new combinator and send Sysex!

You can now make controls for hardware synths that can receive sysex in Reason!

Wow!!! That's a dream come true! Will it be able to generate sysex you say?!! Whoa!!! Do we need that VST? What is it? I have looked for so many editors but nothing today comes close to the Atari days, so if this can change I'm all ears - so is my D-50, D-20, K-1, PSS-480, FB-01, TX81Z...

[bxbrkrz]

I'd love to know more about that sysex vst too

[QVprod]

Given Ryan’s teaser, refills are likely to skyrocket back into relevance. Looking forward to the creations.

Interesting, a couple of months back you guys were all looking at me as if I was the village idiot for saying ReFills are far from dead.

It's not looking great for RE's though as that's pretty much all this rinse and repeat Gorilla IDT stuff finished with (which is like 98% of the devices released within the past 2 years!). You've always been able to do more within the confines of the Combinator but you couldn't give it an interface, so now things are going to get very interesting, especially considering you are now going to get regular free "device" packs via Reason+.

Exciting times!

No, not the village idiot. Just the exception to the norm. Refills used to be talked about on the same level as RE at one point. That definitely died off. They’re definitely getting new life now though.

Agreed on REs though. 3rd party stuff has seemingly crumbled since VST support. I think Combinator 2 is going the answer to that. The GE stuff will still have a place for developers wanting to do Kontakt style sample based stuff however.

[nooomy]

Dude! I have a VST that send Sysex to my Korg Poly 800. I can control the VST with the new combinator and send Sysex!

You can now make controls for hardware synths that can receive sysex in Reason!

Wow!!! That's a dream come true! Will it be able to generate sysex you say?!! Whoa!!! Do we need that VST? What is it? I have looked for so many editors but nothing today comes close to the Atari days, so if this can change I'm all ears - so is my D-50, D-20, K-1, PSS-480, FB-01, TX81Z...

I'd love to know more about that sysex vst too

I mean the combinator will not be able to generate synsex but you can create you own combinator that controls a VST that creates the sysex.

I run a korg poly-800 vst editor that is made in Ctrlr. The VST is able to send sysex signal from Reason to my synth (probably because it send directly to the midi channel and dosen't go through Reason). So when iIcontrol the VST with the combinator it sends sysex signals to the synth.

If you download this https://ctrlr.org/roland-d50-editor/ and install it as a VST and then create a combinator that controls all the parameters you should be able to control your Roland d50 synth from within reason:

It will only be one way so if you change the filter by hand on the synth it wont show on your combinator in reason.

[bitley]

Ah yes you mean so but that's a means to create a more Reason-talking UI anyway, which is great!

I've tried many editors of course including the CTRLR ones. It's a mystery to me why Reason never has been able to talk sysex as I've used it for storing sounds (in particular) for centuries.

The most cool thing for Reason Studios to design would be serious bank management such as Sound Diver had in its heyday, scanning all synths on all 8 (or more) midi ports and displaying all those patch names in Logic. Now that would rock my boat

I run a korg poly-800 vst editor that is made in Ctrlr. The VST is able to send sysex signal from Reason to my synth (probably because it send directly to the midi channel and dosen't go through Reason). So when iIcontrol the VST with the combinator it sends sysex signals to the synth.

So to elaborate / rephrase this - and I haven't verified how it's working; your statement is saying:

Reason can (be designed to) control the Sysex plugin - which talks to the synth.

I then assume;

You can then design a UI for this which corresponds nicely to the hardware.

I also assume;

Furthermore, if it sounds great you can store the patch via the VST plugin.

So it's pretty usable anyway as it can hide away the Ctrlr surface and make it all appear nicely on screen in a Reason fashion, which would be extremely cool.

As a creative suggestion, one might also add even more fun things in this combinator such as effects, the arpeggiator and even Reason rack synths that respond to the same knobs - to create a very fat layered sound which combines hardware with software in a previously rather impossible way, giving a greater sum of the parts.

This is of course exactly in line with what we and others have been doing with our refills for years, but I multi-sampled all of the gear instead of relying on it when patching it up & also did this with the JX8P plugin PG-8X which if run in series could also act as a complete virtual MKS-70 / JX10, so now if people consider all this the ultra powers given to us with the combinator are truly immense, which of course also goes for the current "future classic" one

[MixerJaexx]

My take on refills? The Combinator update is not going to be a revival like people are assuming it is. We’re lucky if Reason (especially the standalone DAW) can sustain or grow its numbers. Rack extension developers are struggling and reasonstudios.com still hides the RE shop and both images on the front page show Reason used as a plug-in in their competitor’s DAW’s (think about that for a second).

We’re watching Reason’s “target goal for existence” change before our eyes and people are talking about the “refill market”? Refills… one of the most antiquated things about Reason. Refills existed, then, as a way to prevent individual sounds from being used outside the refill, but it didn’t block patches (including Combinator patches) from being saved and exported within a Reason file or the patch itself re-saved (outside the refill).

In this Combinator 2 “renaissance”, there’s no copy protection with refills (we assume). So why bundle patches in a refill when zipping them into a folder works as well? Early refill extractors existed, not for piracy (since the refill could be pirated itself) but to unburden the files inside from the refill.

I personally feel one of the worst things about Reason is the refill format; so many times people would share a Reason file for me, only for one kick drum sample to prevent a file from being played from a 1 GB refill. It was a bad experience for both parties. And god forbid you used a kick sample yourself from a refill that, year laters, you can no longer open your file without the “missing sounds” dialogue.

Reason itself is struggling; people making neat Combinator 2.0 patches should probably try to share them for free (shocker) to encourage more people to buy into Reason or Reason+ so that it continues to grow and doesn’t become the latest acquisition of Slice or Behringer or Samsung. Guess where, according to landr.com, Reason ranks according to the top ten DAW’s? Reason doesn’t even make the list! Even Audacity makes the list. Audacity…

I’m tellin’ you right now, this pie-in-the-sky stuff regarding refills (and possibly over-estimating the grandeur of the Combinator 2.0) is going to set people up for disappointment.

The Reason community needs to focus on keeping the development of Reason as a DAW (which Combinator 2.0 helps), not regressing into a refill market while Ryan and Matthias are trying to talk their superiors out of future roadmaps that makes Reason 2026 plug-in only.

[bitley]

Well I can clearly say that the refill market is alive and kicking. And forums like this give proof that so is Reason. I don't know any serious musician who would enjoy playing stolen instruments and the same goes for refills really. You would collaborate with someone having a personal Reason license and logic has it you would then both also purchase all the refills / REs / sound libraries you are using not to mess up your computers, waste time and render sound designers homeless. Not expensive either, after all, compared to hardware instruments. I guess it's the same as not wanting to have stolen gear in the studio. When I created house for a label back in the 90's we had the same base hardware setup (Atari, Cubase, JV-1080, Vintage, Dance expansions and ASR-10) so we could work on the tracks back and forth.

[thedude]

Man, I wish there were more refills, especially for Thor and Europa. I'm slooooowly building up retrowave/synthwave patches, but I would have gladly paid for a bank so I could avoid that time suck.

[Jagwah]

No, no ideas here, not allowed to know about its details yet and not interested in beta testing (bulb smash emoticon).

Man, I wish there were more refills, especially for Thor and Europa. I'm slooooowly building up retrowave/synthwave patches, but I would have gladly paid for a bank so I could avoid that time suck.

Lot's of people would really like some kind of decently sized retrowave bank and it just does not seem to exist, I am salivating at the idea of your collection lol

[thefixr]

I will be making synths out of Pulsars.

Why did you put this idea in my head? Now I’ll be spending all my time making combinator instruments. This place is a horrible influence

I am also going to create Combinators for the devices I commonly use minus the pads I guess:

MPD 218
MPD 232
Korg PadKontrol

Basically it would be great to have a one to one relationship between the buttons, knobs and faders on my devices and what I am controlling with them, which is a Combinator 99% of the time.

But yeah, other than that I am going to build A LOT of instruments with Combinators out of individual parts. For instance I might make a fully featured 4 OSC synth out of Pulsars + half rack effects.

[QVprod]

My take on refills? The Combinator update is not going to be a revival like people are assuming it is. We’re lucky if Reason (especially the standalone DAW) can sustain or grow its numbers. Rack extension developers are struggling and reasonstudios.com still hides the RE shop and both images on the front page show Reason used as a plug-in in their competitor’s DAW’s (think about that for a second).

RE developers aren't struggling. They barely exist. Not necessarily because Reason Studios is struggling (there are no objective signs of that), but because VST support took away the need for ports and some of the newer developers weren't interested in competing with VSTs. As much as this has continually been brought up, the rack plugin was THE marque feature for Reason 11, which as of right now is Still the current version to anyone not on Reason +. It being heavily featured makes complete sense in that regard. Remember that Reason has always been able to be used as a "plugin" of sorts in other DAWs... they just replaced Rewire with a VST that in most cases is far more convenient to use. Both Machine and FL Studio have standalone and plugin versions as well, so this isn't a new concept.

We’re watching Reason’s “target goal for existence” change before our eyes and people are talking about the “refill market”? Refills… one of the most antiquated things about Reason. Refills existed, then, as a way to prevent individual sounds from being used outside the refill, but it didn’t block patches (including Combinator patches) from being saved and exported within a Reason file or the patch itself re-saved (outside the refill).

In this Combinator 2 “renaissance”, there’s no copy protection with refills (we assume). So why bundle patches in a refill when zipping them into a folder works as well? Early refill extractors existed, not for piracy (since the refill could be pirated itself) but to unburden the files inside from the refill.

I personally feel one of the worst things about Reason is the refill format; so many times people would share a Reason file for me, only for one kick drum sample to prevent a file from being played from a 1 GB refill. It was a bad experience for both parties. And god forbid you used a kick sample yourself from a refill that, year laters, you can no longer open your file without the “missing sounds” dialogue.

I think you're misreading the discussion as far as a refills resurgence is concerned. Currently the primary way to sell a collection of Reason patches, especially in the RS shop is as a refill. Regardless of how you feel about the format; to which I agree with you on it not being necessary, this is the current state of things regarding Reason patches. We're simply talking the content of what a Refill represents.

As far as the issues with missing sounds, the same would apply to folders. And Reason does have the self contain option which is what should be done when sharing Reason files with one another if non factory samples are involved. Same happens in any DAW with any 3rd party sample set or VST if files are being shared between different users.

Reason itself is struggling; people making neat Combinator 2.0 patches should probably try to share them for free (shocker) to encourage more people to buy into Reason or Reason+ so that it continues to grow and doesn’t become the latest acquisition of Slice or Behringer or Samsung. Guess where, according to landr.com, Reason ranks according to the top ten DAW’s? Reason doesn’t even make the list! Even Audacity makes the list. Audacity…

I’m tellin’ you right now, this pie-in-the-sky stuff regarding refills (and possibly over-estimating the grandeur of the Combinator 2.0) is going to set people up for disappointment.

The Reason community needs to focus on keeping the development of Reason as a DAW (which Combinator 2.0 helps), not regressing into a refill market while Ryan and Matthias are trying to talk their superiors out of future roadmaps that makes Reason 2026 plug-in only.

Without saying too much, the new Combinator isn't being overestimated. Even the old one had incredible potential with the primary drawback being very limited controls. That limit is gone. I don't see how giving away combinator patches in lieu of selling refills changes anything. It's a given that free combinators are going to float around, but as far as refills are concerned, most of them were developed by 3rd parties. Reason + users are already getting endless patches every week which will of course include patches with the new combinator as well once R12 officially drops. The DAW development is basically irrelevant to this whether there a resurgence or not. Refills and patches alone are not going to sell Reason versions nor even keep subscriptions IMO.

Also, Top 10 DAWs lists are incredibly subjective, and not a good resource to follow for how well a company is doing. Reason is not on LANDR's list but they are on Music Radar's list

[thedude]

No, no ideas here, not allowed to know about its details yet and not interested in beta testing (bulb smash emoticon).

Man, I wish there were more refills, especially for Thor and Europa. I'm slooooowly building up retrowave/synthwave patches, but I would have gladly paid for a bank so I could avoid that time suck.

Lot's of people would really like some kind of decently sized retrowave bank and it just does not seem to exist, I am salivating at the idea of your collection lol

What do you consider to be decently sized? I've got ~40 made so far. It's not much, but it's something. I really need to just buckle down and rip a bunch out. My method right now is just listening to my fave synth wave tunes and replicating by ear, which can sometimes be slow.

[MixerJaexx]

Without saying too much, the new Combinator isn't being overestimated.

Right on man, thanks for sharin’ your insight.

[Jagwah]

No, no ideas here, not allowed to know about its details yet and not interested in beta testing (bulb smash emoticon).




Lot's of people would really like some kind of decently sized retrowave bank and it just does not seem to exist, I am salivating at the idea of your collection lol

What do you consider to be decently sized? I've got ~40 made so far. It's not much, but it's something. I really need to just buckle down and rip a bunch out. My method right now is just listening to my fave synth wave tunes and replicating by ear, which can sometimes be slow.

If you are decent at sound design and doing what you say, then any pack would be worthwhile, maybe go for ten more and have 50 in there that would be really cool

[bxbrkrz]

Wow!!! That's a dream come true! Will it be able to generate sysex you say?!! Whoa!!! Do we need that VST? What is it? I have looked for so many editors but nothing today comes close to the Atari days, so if this can change I'm all ears - so is my D-50, D-20, K-1, PSS-480, FB-01, TX81Z...

I'd love to know more about that sysex vst too

I mean the combinator will not be able to generate synsex but you can create you own combinator that controls a VST that creates the sysex.

I run a korg poly-800 vst editor that is made in Ctrlr. The VST is able to send sysex signal from Reason to my synth (probably because it send directly to the midi channel and dosen't go through Reason). So when iIcontrol the VST with the combinator it sends sysex signals to the synth.

If you download this https://ctrlr.org/roland-d50-editor/ and install it as a VST and then create a combinator that controls all the parameters you should be able to control your Roland d50 synth from within reason:

It will only be one way so if you change the filter by hand on the synth it wont show on your combinator in reason.

Thanks

[Faastwalker]

Hoping I’ll be able to create Combinators for my MIDI controllers and external MIDI devices. This way they can be controlled right from within Reason in the Combinator with all the control CC’s assigned. That will be the first order of business for me I think.

After that who knows? I imagine a world of possibilities are going to be opened up with Combinator 2. Some interesting suggestions in the thread. Hopefully they’ll all be possible. It’s going to be a lot of fun I’m sure. A little over a week now until September (assuming full release is still scheduled for the 1st).

[KGB]

Guess where, according to landr.com, Reason ranks according to the top ten DAW’s? Reason doesn’t even make the list! Even Audacity makes the list. Audacity…

Let's be serious here...Audacity is nowhere near as capable as Reason in terms of music production. I wonder what top ten list that Landr would make because I don't know 1 person that uses their service.

[Catblack]

Lol! Reason has absolutely zero Sysex compability. When I think Sysex I think Atari days, which is why I've kept an ST for many years, powerful as ever in its own world.

Dude! I have a VST that send Sysex to my Korg Poly 800. I can control the VST with the new combinator and send Sysex!

You can now make controls for hardware synths that can receive sysex in Reason!

Actually, I was going to reply to this thread that my intention for the new combinator is to make an open source (non commercial license) remote codec that will allow one to configure hardware synths. What I plan of building will be just a framework, but should enable anyone to program theirs, if it updates controls via sysex.

I am already using a remote codec to send sysex to update the colors of my launchpad pro. I can also read the track name in Reason and update the layout/scale/rotation/etc of the interface. It's very speedy, too.

Sysex is totally possible in the Remote system. With the new combinator it will possible to have a lot more controls mapped how you'd want it. Imagine using your fave hardware synth and being able to automate it this way.

[nooomy]

Dude! I have a VST that send Sysex to my Korg Poly 800. I can control the VST with the new combinator and send Sysex!

You can now make controls for hardware synths that can receive sysex in Reason!

Actually, I was going to reply to this thread that my intention for the new combinator is to make an open source (non commercial license) remote codec that will allow one to configure hardware synths. What I plan of building will be just a framework, but should enable anyone to program theirs, if it updates controls via sysex.

I am already using a remote codec to send sysex to update the colors of my launchpad pro. I can also read the track name in Reason and update the layout/scale/rotation/etc of the interface. It's very speedy, too.

Sysex is totally possible in the Remote system. With the new combinator it will possible to have a lot more controls mapped how you'd want it. Imagine using your fave hardware synth and being able to automate it this way.

WOW! awsome im really looking forward to test that!

[Billy+]

So I can't be the only person who watched the review of the combinator 2 so can we just actually talk about it?

[joeyluck]

So I can't be the only person who watched the review of the combinator 2 so can we just actually talk about it?

Lol not a review. It's in beta. No videos exist anymore

You can talk about it in the beta forum!

[Heigen5]

And also, wait for the September 1th, then you all are free to discuss (I mean bashing it all).