Obligatory...tools or toys?
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Obligatory...tools or toys?
great point, it’s like there’s a paradox that can happen when adding features—new features often benefit the workflow, so the software can get out of the way of the creativity (e.g. not needing to use workarounds to achieve a goal). that means adding tools can sometimes result in the boring stuff being more fun, and feeling more like a toy than a tool.Mistro17 wrote: ↑18 Aug 2021I would like to see focus on more sequencer features that will make the sequencer feel like a toy...a fun one. I like the feel of a sequencer that is as fun to use as making the music. Also more musician focused tools (like markers for chord progressions in the sequencer) with some visual theory toys would be a bonus.
This is the best definition I can think of: Fill the gaps.guitfnky wrote: ↑16 Aug 2021the thing that continues to boggle my mind is that most Reason users buy into it because it’s easy to pick up, but eventually get to the point where they’re frustrated by some caveman-basic bit of DAW functionality available anywhere else. it seems like adding a bunch of really simple shit would put Reason right in the sweet spot for a whole lot of people. super easy to pick up, super inspiring, not bloated, but also not missing any glaring basics. I’m no marketer, so maybe I’m way off here, but goddamn, I would lose my shit with joy if they just filled the gaps.Billy+ wrote: ↑16 Aug 2021Reason was always a rack of toys made to look and behave like hardware.
I brought Reason as a DAW but what initially got my interest was the toys that came with in, I preferred the stability of the rack over other DAW's and vst combinations and I'm glad I did.
But after 20 years of Reason and later Rack Extensions I've grown to the point that I don't have much need for a new toy unless it's something unique ( Friktion and Algorithm ) were my last purchases and I got them because I had cash that I hadn't used for anything in ages so RS generally knows how to hit that spot (excluding mimic) and I guess that's why it's stock.
As for the DAW features at some point,
well RS generally includes something new in the DAW now weather you think it's a "feature" or not I guess is up to you for example I definitely don't see removing the groove mixers skin as a feature but some will,
the same as the automation curve I guess it's a feature that I use but really it's more like correcting a mistake as it should have been there but no matter how you think it's listed as features, enhancements to the DAW are there they perhaps just aren't big enough to shout about.
Think about this if midi pass through / routing gets implemented is it really something that RS can shout about? Not really it's in every other daw on the market but for me it's the one missing feature/mistake that I've waited for the longest but it's definitely not going to interest RRP users they want new toys.
and I think back to when I started working in modern DAWs—holy hell would I have been excited to use something like that. I was excited about Reason, but knew it was missing a lot when I started—having an easy, inspiring learning curve AND all the basics seems like such a no-brainer.
How is the vertical zoom in the sequencer half assed? Just curious - as I use it all of the time without issue.
Because when you zoom out it doesn’t zoom to the vertical position if the curser, it zooms down from the top, so you have to scroll back to where you were.EnochLight wrote: ↑21 Aug 2021How is the vertical zoom in the sequencer half assed? Just curious - as I use it all of the time without issue.![]()
I'll agree on one point--Reason is definitely different. but it's objectively worse as a DAW--that's something that I don't think can be argued with a straight face. better as a creative toy, absolutely, but not even close to anything else out there as a serious tool. sounds like you would have been okay with Reason remaining a sequencing and sound-design playground like it was before they introduced the ability to record audio, which is of course totally fine. but since they DID turn Reason into a DAW, they should either shit or get off the pot when it comes to that side of things. I'd be unhappy if they decided to remove the DAW side of things, but at least it would mean they'd made a decision.slic wrote: ↑21 Aug 2021I guess I am on of the very few that voted Toys!
I love the creative, fun and easy to use side of Reason...there are a ton of 'serious' DAWS- you can get Reaper for next to nothing and run Reason as a rack if that is your bag....Personally, I want fun creative tools and leftfield thinking. In my opinion DAWS are dull dull dull, the 'spreadsheets' of the musical world, avoid whenever possible!!! Oh, and if you want to record live bands, maybe a small jazzband or even an orchestra...Reason is probably the wrong tool....if you are sat an your own making predominantly electronic music, Reason is just about as good as it gets...other DAWS are just different, not better.
Those additions came with version 11. I say in the following 2 years.
Reason is a great recording tool. Reason's problem is another. But for recording bands, it may be the simplest and most efficient DAW out there.slic wrote: ↑21 Aug 2021I guess I am on of the very few that voted Toys!
I love the creative, fun and easy to use side of Reason...there are a ton of 'serious' DAWS- you can get Reaper for next to nothing and run Reason as a rack if that is your bag....Personally, I want fun creative tools and leftfield thinking. In my opinion DAWS are dull dull dull, the 'spreadsheets' of the musical world, avoid whenever possible!!! Oh, and if you want to record live bands, maybe a small jazzband or even an orchestra...Reason is probably the wrong tool....if you are sat an your own making predominantly electronic music, Reason is just about as good as it gets...other DAWS are just different, not better.
guitfnky wrote: ↑21 Aug 2021I'll agree on one point--Reason is definitely different. but it's objectively worse as a DAW--that's something that I don't think can be argued with a straight face. better as a creative toy, absolutely, but not even close to anything else out there as a serious tool. sounds like you would have been okay with Reason remaining a sequencing and sound-design playground like it was before they introduced the ability to record audio, which is of course totally fine. but since they DID turn Reason into a DAW, they should either shit or get off the pot when it comes to that side of things. I'd be unhappy if they decided to remove the DAW side of things, but at least it would mean they'd made a decision.slic wrote: ↑21 Aug 2021I guess I am on of the very few that voted Toys!
I love the creative, fun and easy to use side of Reason...there are a ton of 'serious' DAWS- you can get Reaper for next to nothing and run Reason as a rack if that is your bag....Personally, I want fun creative tools and leftfield thinking. In my opinion DAWS are dull dull dull, the 'spreadsheets' of the musical world, avoid whenever possible!!! Oh, and if you want to record live bands, maybe a small jazzband or even an orchestra...Reason is probably the wrong tool....if you are sat an your own making predominantly electronic music, Reason is just about as good as it gets...other DAWS are just different, not better.
the strangest thing is, it doesn't have to be one or the other. why shouldn't it be a competent DAW AND a super inspiring creative tool? they've hit the creative sweet spot already--but they've let the DAW lag further and further behind in terms of features, while adding more and more toys. it's like a really good cake, and the only thing they can think to do to tweak the recipe is to add more sugar. I don't get it.
Hmm.
They are to some of the folks round here.
If only it was that simple. Sure we all only have a dozen or so “must have” missing features to fill the gap but my dozen or so features is different from yours, with little overlap multiplied by tens of thousands of users and “fill the gaps” suddenly balloons into an overwhelming amount of “catch up” to be done before any of us are truly satisfied. Results: most of us will never be anywhere near 100% satisfied.
true, but it also depends how you define “gaps”. to me, it’s something that’s a well-established industry standard that’s available in the majority of other DAWs. that’s still pretty vague, but it does eliminate quite a lot (e.g. allowing users to add as many controls as they want to their combis wouldn’t be a gap, because it’s not available in other DAWs).selig wrote: ↑22 Aug 2021If only it was that simple. Sure we all only have a dozen or so “must have” missing features to fill the gap but my dozen or so features is different from yours, with little overlap multiplied by tens of thousands of users and “fill the gaps” suddenly balloons into an overwhelming amount of “catch up” to be done before any of us are truly satisfied. Results: most of us will never be anywhere near 100% satisfied.
And for me they would also be very good improvements. I speak from a technical point of view. VST3 support is not like MPE support (which is newer and more specific), it is something a decent DAW must have.
Your list of "most basic deficiencies" is going to be different from mine. So I get you want them to fill YOUR gaps, we ALL want them to fill OUR gaps.LittleBoy wrote: ↑22 Aug 2021Fill the gaps is fill the gaps.
"add as many controls as they want to their combis " it's more of a personal preference. But having access to all the VST3 tools or being able to make a track folder are basic things of our profession that can be done for years in other DAWs.
Fill the gaps is solve the most basic deficiencies.
This x100guitfnky wrote: ↑16 Aug 2021
the thing that continues to boggle my mind is that most Reason users buy into it because it’s easy to pick up, but eventually get to the point where they’re frustrated by some caveman-basic bit of DAW functionality available anywhere else. it seems like adding a bunch of really simple shit would put Reason right in the sweet spot for a whole lot of people. super easy to pick up, super inspiring, not bloated, but also not missing any glaring basics. I’m no marketer, so maybe I’m way off here, but goddamn, I would lose my shit with joy if they just filled the gaps.
Yes, that is true. But you will agree that there are more "relevant" features than others. VST3 support is a must in a professional sound software. And generally, there are 10 or 12 functions that a vast majority would agree on.selig wrote: ↑22 Aug 2021Your list of "most basic deficiencies" is going to be different from mine. So I get you want them to fill YOUR gaps, we ALL want them to fill OUR gaps.LittleBoy wrote: ↑22 Aug 2021Fill the gaps is fill the gaps.
"add as many controls as they want to their combis " it's more of a personal preference. But having access to all the VST3 tools or being able to make a track folder are basic things of our profession that can be done for years in other DAWs.
Fill the gaps is solve the most basic deficiencies.
It's just there are SO many gaps that need filling that individually speaking it's unlikely OURS will ever be completely addressed.
I’m listening…LittleBoy wrote: ↑23 Aug 2021Yes, that is true. But you will agree that there are more "relevant" features than others. VST3 support is a must in a professional sound software. And generally, there are 10 or 12 functions that a vast majority would agree on.selig wrote: ↑22 Aug 2021
Your list of "most basic deficiencies" is going to be different from mine. So I get you want them to fill YOUR gaps, we ALL want them to fill OUR gaps.
It's just there are SO many gaps that need filling that individually speaking it's unlikely OURS will ever be completely addressed.
you’re surely not expecting us to list them again. it seems like you’re trying to prove some kind of point, but maybe missing the actual point in the process. one doesn’t even have to opine about what constitutes an industry standard feature—just look at other DAWs and see where there’s feature overlap.
Every once in a while in this community someone posts a "what should be next Reason" list, and usually a lot of the stuff matches, and the following comments do as well: