reason 12 early access

[dannyF]

HD was done because it sells Reason as a plugin.

Think you will find all RS moves as of late are in this trajectory.

[Billy+]

I still think that they could offer some kind of middle ground to us that own every thing or prefer to buy rather than rent.

R12 upgrade?

I'm not sure what you mean, but if your referring to R12 being worth £20 subscription to me then your way off, I'm not interested in any of the current features being promoted HD CMBv2 and yet another sampler device just doesn't register on my list.

I only got R11 because of the suite bundle offer, had it not been for that I would have skipped the R11 upgrade and stayed with R10.

[guitfnky]

R12 upgrade?

I'm not sure what you mean, but if your referring to R12 being worth £20 subscription to me then your way off, I'm not interested in any of the current features being promoted HD CMBv2 and yet another sampler device just doesn't register on my list.

I only got R11 because of the suite bundle offer, had it not been for that I would have skipped the R11 upgrade and stayed with R10.

probably just means that if you don't want to subscribe, you have the option to buy a perpetual upgrade for the normal price. not sure why you'd be interested in any kind of 'middle ground' offer (presumably that you'd have to pay for) when you aren't interested in any of the announced improvements.

[joeyluck]

I think what Billy means by middle ground is buying perpetual products, but subscribing at a lower tier for just sound packs?

[scotward57]

Worth stating to avoid this weird “us vs them” thing that happens occasionally. A mod disagreeing with you is NOT moderation. We keep the forum clean (spam, personal attacks…etc…). We don’t police what you think.

That aside, I don’t think anyone’s defending the current roll out. It’s to be seen how the rest of early access goes for August. Truth of the matter is, while it goes against what we expect, if we don’t get the new combinator and sampler until Sept 1st, they will have technically still lived up to their word of delivering the new features “as soon as it's available.” https://www.reasonstudios.com/blog/announcing-reason-12

Fair enough. I can let the mod stuff go.

And I'm glad you are not defending the "questionable" rollout of R12 so far. A lot of hype went into getting people to subscribe. RS announces R12 and strongly implied that R+ subbers would get combinator 2 and a new sampler a lot sooner.

[miscend]

It was very brave to announce a release date ahead of timer for such a big update, most developers just release things when they are ready and never give a date in advance!

It because they tend to do public betas for at least a month before release. In the music software world I'm aware that Reason, Ableton and Bitwig have public betas. Logic and Cubase have private betas. Logic updates tend to just come out without warning.

[Faastwalker]

HD was done because it sells Reason as a plugin.

Think you will find all RS moves as of late are in this trajectory.

For sure. What new DAW features are coming to 12? Round about zero from what I can tell.

It's all about the rack now and Reason as a plug-in, which is a concern if it's your main DAW.

[jamespember]

The only question I would have as a subscriber is what happens when devices like PX7 get removed etc, do you still have access to them?

Everything you own you will always own. If you own something, regardless of whether you subscribe or not, you'll own it. PX7 is a good example here. If you own it, you can still use it of course, regardless of whether it's available for purchase on the shop or not.

[Deep Schulzz]

Is there any information available on how to proceed with R12+ early access? For now R12+ is for me more or less unusasble. I opened a support ticket 19 days ago. But still no answer yet.

[DaveyG]

The only question I would have as a subscriber is what happens when devices like PX7 get removed etc, do you still have access to them?

Everything you own you will always own. If you own something, regardless of whether you subscribe or not, you'll own it. PX7 is a good example here. If you own it, you can still use it of course, regardless of whether it's available for purchase on the shop or not.

So to ask Billy's question again, if R+ had launched when PX7 was still around, then PX7 was withdrawn would R+ subscribers have lost the use of PX7?

[Billy+]

I think what Billy means by middle ground is buying perpetual products, but subscribing at a lower tier for just sound packs?

You got that spot on

[Billy+]

Everything you own you will always own. If you own something, regardless of whether you subscribe or not, you'll own it. PX7 is a good example here. If you own it, you can still use it of course, regardless of whether it's available for purchase on the shop or not.

So to ask Billy's question again, if R+ had launched when PX7 was still around, then PX7 was withdrawn would R+ subscribers have lost the use of PX7?

Yes that's exactly what I was getting at.

[Billy+]

The only question I would have as a subscriber is what happens when devices like PX7 get removed etc, do you still have access to them?

Everything you own you will always own. If you own something, regardless of whether you subscribe or not, you'll own it. PX7 is a good example here. If you own it, you can still use it of course, regardless of whether it's available for purchase on the shop or not.

The status of subscription isn't ownership.

If subscription had included a-list devices, PX7 etc, would those devices have been removed from the subscription package as they haven't been brought only rented.

Is that why they got withdrawn from the market place as RS couldn't license them differently from the co-developers?

[Billy+]

probably just means that if you don't want to subscribe, you have the option to buy a perpetual upgrade for the normal price. not sure why you'd be interested in any kind of 'middle ground' offer (presumably that you'd have to pay for) when you aren't interested in any of the announced improvements.

I have brought everything in the subscription service already but I can't access the content packs without subscription now at £20 a month that just doesn't make sense, the £1 a month offer did as all I wanted was access to the content packs but I do appreciate that the offer is limited and massively discounted so probably won't be extended as giving that level of discount is really going to upset others that have paid full price.

I have stated in the past that owning all the devices really should get you access to the content packs but I don't think RS agrees with that which is fine I disagree and believe it would incentivise people to try and buy the devices they are missing especially if they have already purchased a full license version DAW.

Something in the middle would give access to the content packs but not the devices or DAW.

As for R12 features I have already said many times that having to upgrade my Mac OS and as a byproduct needing to then upgrade my audio device due to a driver issue I would have to see features that I would use and currently I don't, that's not to say that what has been developed isn't good as it really is in the context of Reason as a plugin.

I understand that the development isn't complete and the direction is one part of the planned HD improvements which currently benefit RRP more so than standalone so I'm happy to stay with R11 I'm not going to stop using Reason I could never as it's the best DAW I've used to date, but the current features don't justify my personal interest and although interesting don't justify my extra time to upgrade and extra costs due to 3rd party driver issues,

I'm not sure that even if I got the one feature that I've been waiting years for that it would justify the cost of upgrading, my setup is stable and works perfectly well every day without issues and I enjoy using it, I wouldn't be the first person to skip a version and it's been a long while since I had, maybe this is the time to for now but definitely not forever.

[joeyluck]

So to ask Billy's question again, if R+ had launched when PX7 was still around, then PX7 was withdrawn would R+ subscribers have lost the use of PX7?

Yes that's exactly what I was getting at.

But that's why PX7 was removed... From what I understand as has been explained, it was not included because it was actually not a product owned by Reason Studios (it was the product of an employee and they published it under their name to help out). It was removed from the shop to keep things simple in saying "Reason+ gets you everything by Reason Studios." So in this example, Reason Studios is showing through their actions that they are taking precautions to avoid any such situation for subscribers.

[guitfnky]

probably just means that if you don't want to subscribe, you have the option to buy a perpetual upgrade for the normal price. not sure why you'd be interested in any kind of 'middle ground' offer (presumably that you'd have to pay for) when you aren't interested in any of the announced improvements.

I have brought everything in the subscription service already but I can't access the content packs without subscription now at £20 a month that just doesn't make sense, the £1 a month offer did as all I wanted was access to the content packs but I do appreciate that the offer is limited and massively discounted so probably won't be extended as giving that level of discount is really going to upset others that have paid full price.

there’s already a middle ground option for you that I’m fairly certain we’ve (meaning you and I) talked about at length. spend $20 every six months or year, or whatever, and get all the packs up to that point. rinse and repeat. not sure why you’d expect them to come up with some separate pricing model to accommodate this when there’s already a straightforward option within the existing framework. why make it more complicated than it needs to be?

[Billy+]

You are correct that is exactly the conclusion that we came to, but I wouldn't call that a middle ground from RS point of view more a simple way to get access once a year.

[guitfnky]

You are correct that is exactly the conclusion that we came to, but I wouldn't call that a middle ground from RS point of view more a simple way to get access once a year.

who cares whether it’s a middle ground from RS’ standpoint? that’s just semantics.

[Billy+]

Yes that's exactly what I was getting at.

But that's why PX7 was removed... From what I understand as has been explained, it was not included because it was actually not a product owned by Reason Studios (it was the product of an employee and they published it under their name to help out). It was removed from the shop to keep things simple in saying "Reason+ gets you everything by Reason Studios." So in this example, Reason Studios is showing through their actions that they are taking precautions to avoid any such situation for subscribers.

I'm not sure that the actual issue was explained but maybe you know more than us mear mortals.
Licensing was mentioned but not much more.

However that does shed light onto the situation and not in a good way. Devices being pulled from sale because they don't fit into a new revenue model?

[Billy+]

You are correct that is exactly the conclusion that we came to, but I wouldn't call that a middle ground from RS point of view more a simple way to get access once a year.

who cares whether it’s a middle ground from RS’ standpoint? that’s just semantics.

Maybe but I'm not put off by paying a smaller price for a smaller service

[joeyluck]

But that's why PX7 was removed... From what I understand as has been explained, it was not included because it was actually not a product owned by Reason Studios (it was the product of an employee and they published it under their name to help out). It was removed from the shop to keep things simple in saying "Reason+ gets you everything by Reason Studios." So in this example, Reason Studios is showing through their actions that they are taking precautions to avoid any such situation for subscribers.

I'm not sure that the actual issue was explained but maybe you know more than us mear mortals.
Licensing was mentioned but not much more.

However that does shed light onto the situation and not in a good way. Devices being pulled from sale because they don't fit into a new revenue model?

I don't follow. Again, PX7 removal is an example of avoiding issues and confusion.

[joeyluck]

who cares whether it’s a middle ground from RS’ standpoint? that’s just semantics.

Maybe but I'm not put off by paying a smaller price for a smaller service

One of the few reasons mentioned for not having tiers is that Reason Studios wanted to keep it simple—one subscription price gets you everything and you have full access. Of course, if there is a tier just for sound packs, those who subscribe to that will have to understand that not every sound or sound pack is going to be compatible with what they own. I'd personally be able to understand that and would be fine with that, but if you've noticed the things people don't read and complain about lol, I can understand the hesitation to offer such a tier. But if it also includes a tier for just REs + sound packs (excluding Reason) that might help?

[Billy+]

I'm not sure that the actual issue was explained but maybe you know more than us mear mortals.
Licensing was mentioned but not much more.

However that does shed light onto the situation and not in a good way. Devices being pulled from sale because they don't fit into a new revenue model?

I don't follow. Again, PX7 removal is an example of avoiding issues and confusion.

I think our wires have become crossed.

I wasn't aware that the reason for px7's removal was due to R+
It was explained as a licensing issue but not a licensing issue due to R+ as at the time we didn't have a clue about R+

But you're explanation covers the whole thing perfectly well.

[Billy+]

Maybe but I'm not put off by paying a smaller price for a smaller service

One of the few reasons mentioned for not having tiers is that Reason Studios wanted to keep it simple—one subscription price gets you everything and you have full access. Of course, if there is a tier just for sound packs, those who subscribe to that will have to understand that not every sound or sound pack is going to be compatible with what they own. I'd personally be able to understand that and would be fine with that, but if you've noticed the things people don't read and complain about lol, I can understand the hesitation to offer such a tier. But if it also includes a tier for just REs + sound packs (excluding Reason) that might help?

Yes definitely and I guess the more complicated it gets the more support will be needed for people who have picked the wrong service level.

Guess it's easy in the long term just to have the occasional offer £1 a month every 6 months or similar.

[jamespember]

So to ask Billy's question again, if R+ had launched when PX7 was still around, then PX7 was withdrawn would R+ subscribers have lost the use of PX7?

Yes that's exactly what I was getting at.

PX7 along with the A-List products were discontinued at the exact time of the Reason+ launch products precisely to avoid this sort of scenario from occurring. In other words, it's not a coincidence that those products were discontinued when they were.

We wanted to make it super clear that, anything we make ourselves, with the Reason Studios name on it, is always included in the subscription. These specific products had licensing terms that didn't make it possible for us to include them in Reason+ because we didn't own them entirely ourselves, hence the action we took to discontinue those products before the launch. The result being, there are no Reason Studios devices that aren't included in Reason+.

Now, could a situation occur where we discontinue one of our own devices, (I dunno, say Pattern Mutator or Algoritm), that we own entirely - and pull it from Reason+? In theory yes, but it seems very unlikely and RS has no track record of removing support for our own devices.

Hope that clears things up!