Algoritm is released!

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kbard
Posts: 83
Joined: 05 Jun 2021

Post 20 Jul 2021

Loque wrote:
20 Jul 2021

I just had a look into your patch. You can quite close, but exactly matching is pretty hard since you nipulate the sounds all over the place with scaling, rate manipulation and an LFO. Also ES400 uses some Amp, which is difficult to match.

While trying to reproduce, the most obvious were the Envelopes, which are much tighter in ES400 with the right settings. This can be achieved with the Mod Matrix and the free curves, but you still wont get nearly 100%. Again, the basic sound can be done, all the details is not possible to 100%.
Thank you for your info and for your time.

I am aware 100% matching would be impossible. I was more aiming toward indistinguishable and I got close but as you said Envelopes are quite different. And ES400 Chorus may seem simple on the surface but it's so much nicer (to my ear) then the one in Algoritm.

Ah, time to save some money and buy both..

p.s. at least I learned significance of an Envelope I mean variations of them. I realized it can alter sound drastically. It's not ah well it's just an Envelope...Envelopes seems really important piece.

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Loque
Moderator
Posts: 9308
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

Post 20 Jul 2021

kbard wrote:
20 Jul 2021
Loque wrote:
20 Jul 2021

I just had a look into your patch. You can quite close, but exactly matching is pretty hard since you nipulate the sounds all over the place with scaling, rate manipulation and an LFO. Also ES400 uses some Amp, which is difficult to match.

While trying to reproduce, the most obvious were the Envelopes, which are much tighter in ES400 with the right settings. This can be achieved with the Mod Matrix and the free curves, but you still wont get nearly 100%. Again, the basic sound can be done, all the details is not possible to 100%.
Thank you for your info and for your time.

I am aware 100% matching would be impossible. I was more aiming toward indistinguishable and I got close but as you said Envelopes are quite different. And ES400 Chorus may seem simple on the surface but it's so much nicer (to my ear) then the one in Algoritm.

Ah, time to save some money and buy both..

p.s. at least I learned significance of an Envelope I mean variations of them. I realized it can alter sound drastically. It's not ah well it's just an Envelope...Envelopes seems really important piece.
Good choice. Both are great and will lead you to different results and i agree that ES400 has some great patches.

If you create your own Kickdrums, than flexible Envelops are a must have 👍
Reason12, Win10

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huggermugger
Posts: 133
Joined: 16 Jul 2021

Post 20 Jul 2021

kbard wrote:
20 Jul 2021
. I am scratching my head about algorithm 6. Does it mean operator 4 is connected to itself?
All 8 algorithms have feedback on Operator 4.

But Algorithm 6 seems to be incorrect, assuming this set of Algorithms is based on Yamaha's early 4-op devices. Here's an image of the 8 algorithms from the TX81z. They're all the same as the ES400, except Algorithm 6, which looks like it's been drawn incorrectly. Operator 4 should actually be feeding all three of the other operators.
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Loque
Moderator
Posts: 9308
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

Post 20 Jul 2021

huggermugger wrote:
20 Jul 2021
kbard wrote:
20 Jul 2021
. I am scratching my head about algorithm 6. Does it mean operator 4 is connected to itself?
All 8 algorithms have feedback on Operator 4.

But Algorithm 6 seems to be incorrect, assuming this set of Algorithms is based on Yamaha's early 4-op devices. Here's an image of the 8 algorithms from the TX81z. They're all the same as the ES400, except Algorithm 6, which looks like it's been drawn incorrectly. Operator 4 should actually be feeding all three of the other operators.
Interesting. While trying to recreate the sound i thought it needs feedback on all oscilators. Gotta check if ES400 is doing this in reality...
Reason12, Win10

kbard
Posts: 83
Joined: 05 Jun 2021

Post 22 Jul 2021

Well it seems that ES400 FM synth in on sale now. Which is a chance to buy it.

I just tried his other synths. I know this is a thread about Algoritm but maaannn...His synths poses some kind of sheer quality. I can't realize what's about it, is it filter design or envelopes but his synths respond dare I say like an analogue synth should respond. Squelchy liquid filters. Awesome presets. This is rare occasion where I said myself...damn i wish I have more money to buy synth bundle.

I am out of this thread as I don't want to derail it.

Algoritm will stay on my radar because it's more fun and is good for a times when I want to experiment. Hopefully it will be on Sale sometimes by the end of this year.

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ekss
RE Developer
Posts: 363
Joined: 09 Nov 2015
Location: Stockholm

Post 27 Jul 2021

huggermugger wrote:
20 Jul 2021
kbard wrote:
20 Jul 2021
. I am scratching my head about algorithm 6. Does it mean operator 4 is connected to itself?
All 8 algorithms have feedback on Operator 4.

But Algorithm 6 seems to be incorrect, assuming this set of Algorithms is based on Yamaha's early 4-op devices. Here's an image of the 8 algorithms from the TX81z. They're all the same as the ES400, except Algorithm 6, which looks like it's been drawn incorrectly. Operator 4 should actually be feeding all three of the other operators.
Good spotting! I’ve taken the algorithm structure from DX100 and algorithm 6 differs in ES400 because of limitations of Gorilla Engine (IDT SDK) where only one OP can be fed the modulation from another OP. So the picture in the manual is correct in how ES400 is set up.

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huggermugger
Posts: 133
Joined: 16 Jul 2021

Post 27 Jul 2021

ekss wrote:
27 Jul 2021

Good spotting! I’ve taken the algorithm structure from DX100 and algorithm 6 differs in ES400 because of limitations of Gorilla Engine (IDT SDK) where only one OP can be fed the modulation from another OP. So the picture in the manual is correct in how ES400 is set up.
That makes sense. Not a severe limitation.

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