High resolution Reason is here!

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helmutson
Posts: 211
Joined: 30 Mar 2015

15 Jul 2021

fullforce wrote:
15 Jul 2021
Also, the ugliest splash screen ever.

reasonsplash.png
No, I like it so far ...

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fullforce
Posts: 849
Joined: 18 Aug 2018

15 Jul 2021

helmutson wrote:
15 Jul 2021
fullforce wrote:
15 Jul 2021


I see. Yeah it's ok now. Didn't they say that all RE's would be hi-res? Doesn't look like it.
... naa, I mean it takes time before the hires is loaded, a lot time under some circumstances ... but then every RE is hires, the big mixer too, but all the other stuff still looks terrible. Wait, not in 100% zoom factor, then it is like it was in R11, like you're not using R12 , but only after that loading time ... it's complicated - I hope you'll understand :D
No, because you're not making any sense.
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helmutson
Posts: 211
Joined: 30 Mar 2015

15 Jul 2021

fullforce wrote:
15 Jul 2021
helmutson wrote:
15 Jul 2021


... naa, I mean it takes time before the hires is loaded, a lot time under some circumstances ... but then every RE is hires, the big mixer too, but all the other stuff still looks terrible. Wait, not in 100% zoom factor, then it is like it was in R11, like you're not using R12 , but only after that loading time ... it's complicated - I hope you'll understand :D
No, because you're not making any sense.
OK, fine ... you got it :thumbs_up:

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fullforce
Posts: 849
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15 Jul 2021

Or do they mean Propellerh.... I mean Reason Studios RE's only?
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Carpainter
Posts: 96
Joined: 28 Sep 2019

15 Jul 2021

helmutson wrote:
15 Jul 2021
... and seriously, I can't accept this "hires loading time behaviour" in the finished product sometime, it's so annoying ... no other plugin or device window I know has that "problem" ... don't get me wrong, I would love HD RE's and HD Reason, but not like that ...
Reason is now auto-scaling devices based on your resolution and DPI settings. VST plugins don't do that. It also has to load a high enough resolution version of each device to look good when zoomed in as high as 200% on a 4k display. Other than giving people the option to switch to a legacy display mode with the old low-rez devices, I'm not sure what they can do for people who don't want to deal with the load times.

helmutson
Posts: 211
Joined: 30 Mar 2015

15 Jul 2021

Carpainter wrote:
15 Jul 2021
helmutson wrote:
15 Jul 2021
... and seriously, I can't accept this "hires loading time behaviour" in the finished product sometime, it's so annoying ... no other plugin or device window I know has that "problem" ... don't get me wrong, I would love HD RE's and HD Reason, but not like that ...
Reason is now auto-scaling devices based on your resolution and DPI settings. VST plugins don't do that. It also has to load a high enough resolution version of each device to look good when zoomed in as high as 200% on a 4k display. Other than giving people the option to switch to a legacy display mode with the old low-rez devices, I'm not sure what they can do for people who don't want to deal with the load times.
... I'm not using VST plugins, I was talking about the internal plugins of Logic in comparisation of the RRP for example. Whatever, I have no clue what is going on technically , all what I want is that it works as before and this loading time is a no-go for me ... I'm so sorry for that, because Reason has a very special place in my musical life ...

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lowtom
Posts: 196
Joined: 29 Sep 2017

15 Jul 2021

RS need to rethink their aproach as for 100% zoom there should be no loading time present. Graphic assets for 100% zoom should be build in, like default ones in previous versions, maybe preloaded or cached during istallation. Only zooming above or below 100% should trigger reloading and caching of new graphic assets.
:reason: :refill: :re:

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fullforce
Posts: 849
Joined: 18 Aug 2018

15 Jul 2021

lowtom wrote:
15 Jul 2021
RS need to rethink their aproach as for 100% zoom there should be no loading time present. Graphic assets for 100% zoom should be build in, like default ones in previous versions, maybe preloaded or cached during istallation. Only zooming above or below 100% should trigger reloading and caching of new graphic assets.
It should be freaking realtime zoom! How hard can it be! This is a freaking kludge job!
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fullforce
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15 Jul 2021

lowtom wrote:
15 Jul 2021
cached during istallation.
You don't "cache during installation". That defeats the whole purpose of caching.
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EnochLight
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15 Jul 2021

fullforce wrote:
15 Jul 2021
It should be freaking realtime zoom! How hard can it be! This is a freaking kludge job!
Unrelated, but I just realized you're phasys from the old PUF. :lol: Many interesting conversations there. ;)

phasys.jpg
phasys.jpg (15.25 KiB) Viewed 3017 times
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

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JiggeryPokery
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15 Jul 2021

selig wrote:
15 Jul 2021
Faastwalker wrote:
15 Jul 2021
In any case, still feel like the Hi-Res function is a bit on the clunky side. And would have loved to have it for each element of Reason as opposed to the whole thing. Again, maybe my monitor?!
These are two different features, rack/device zooming and application zoom. Application zooming was done first (has been requested for YEARS!), hopefully device zooming will be relatively quick to follow.
With respect, and you're not incorrect, as such, but that sure sounds dangerously close to a revisionism of the types of requests I've seen over the years, in order to attempt to justify to yourself the way it's been implemented now, when there's a very strong argument that's not what a majority of people have wanted the past six years at least, even just in a cursory search of this very forum. Now, I'm not party to whatever user stats and direct emails RS have, of course. But I can be pretty sure of one thing.

No-one, but no-one, including yourself, asked for enlarged, blurry text, and a comically, farcically engorged transport bar.

Serious, genuine question.

In what way is this
vaseline2.png
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better than this?
not vaseline.png
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Because that is so obviously wrong it should not have even made it to a beta, let alone to paying users beta testers Reason+ Subscribers. You say "Application zooming has been done first", but it demonstrably hasn't! They've done part of it. Come on, Giles.

Every time someone on the forum says — or as you're doing, even inadvently, implies, especially given your status a respectable tech expert — language like "This is great!" or in "has been done" enables RS to get away with not fixing or finishing work in a product that most of us do actually pay for.

The fact is when you defend the indefensible, the indefensible eventually becomes acceptable.

Fantastic, the bitmaps are bigger, and sharper for people who need them bigger. I love it. That's good, for sure. However, making the fonts shit is not good. So the net benefit to what they've released is, by and large, zero. It is no better: they've merely shifted the rendering issues into a different place. It's the programming equivalent of crapping on the floor and sweeping it under a rug with your slippers.

If this display render issue is fixed before Reason 12.1 gets released, brilliant, my cynicism will have been entirely misplaced, I'll take it all back and apologise right here in this thread: it just was a bug, and it took a little while longer to work through than they expected. However, I guarantee it's been known about for some time maybe months, probably including yourself as I believe you're a Test Pilot who gets these Upgrades for Free. But if it's not fixed by September, and remember, it's already actually live in a paid environment to Paying Beta Tester Reason+ Subscribers, it's intentional. That is, they had no intention of ensuring it looks correct for launch.

And at that point, the marketing should read "Reason HD: It's like staring at a Vaseline-smeared monitor through cataracts."
Last edited by JiggeryPokery on 15 Jul 2021, edited 1 time in total.

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guitfnky
Posts: 4408
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

15 Jul 2021

RS have clearly learned some lessons after the catastrophe that was the R+ announcement. I’m really happy to see they don’t seem so apt to hamstring themselves with poorly (or not at all) thought out rollout messaging.

but marketing buffoonery aside, they’re still making some truly baffling consumer-unfriendly decisions. releasing what’s obviously an unseasoned upgrade to a live production environment where people are continuing to pay them money is the biggest example yet.

I can’t help suspect (in a way, maybe even hope?) that this wasn’t their original intention. I wonder whether they weren’t as far along with beta testing as they expected, and with the time crunch between now and launch (and apparently an entire month off?), they decided it would be better to broaden the testing base by putting it out to subscribers, than to delay. they’ll get more complaints, but they’ll also catch more, quickly, and can hopefully deliver a solid result on time as a result.

but that’s not to say this is a good thing. it reeks of corporate pressure in a way I never thought I’d see for RS (even after the sale/rebrand—how naive of me, I know). this reminds me of what happens super regularly with AAA video game franchises; they say it’s coming out on x date, then even when it’s not ready, start shoveling garbage out the door, under pressure from shareholders, with the promise that things will get better.

they need to do better.
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EnochLight
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15 Jul 2021

JiggeryPokery wrote:
15 Jul 2021
And at that point, the marketing should read "Reason HD: It's like staring at a Vaseline-smeared monitor through cataracts."
So, to be clear Matt - I'll be the first to say that the way hi-res assets are being handled in Reason 12 (currently) could absolutely be improved. Some hi-res areas missing on the transport are just some (among others), and not having an actual way to zoom into things on a per-device basis is a 100% let down, especially for those of us who prefer to work in Reason DAW standalone. In RRP, things seem to work a lot better, IMHO, at least since it's just "the rack".

Anyway, if your biggest complaint is how displays like your example on NNXT's editor are being handled, I seriously have to disagree that it's really that big of a deal. Vaseline?? Come on man, really. Yeah the text obviously needs to be improved, but is it shit? NOPE. Is it a total mess of blur? NOPE. Is it slightly blurrier than stock 11?

Here's NNXT at 240% on R+ (12 preview):



240_R_plus.JPG
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And here's Reason 11, zoomed in via OS scaling, which is the only way it can be done:



200_OS_scale.JPG
200_OS_scale.JPG (287.49 KiB) Viewed 2944 times
And yes, I absolutely agree that the text is crisper on Reason 11, but the text on R+ 12 preview is absolutely scaled into a workable resolution that is far better than the static text and labels below it.

You're a dev, so it's clear you know a lot more than most of us when it comes to how things work "behind the scenes" when it comes to RE's. I hoping you're right about it being a bug that can be "fixed" or improved by the time 12 or 12.1 comes along. But even if it doesn't improve, it's still absolutely usable a not the travesty you seem to be making it out to be.
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

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guitfnky
Posts: 4408
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

15 Jul 2021

wait, the text in the middle part of the screen? isn’t that *supposed* to look like a digital display? it’d look weird if that shit had smooth crisp text, IMO.
I write good music for good people

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avasopht
Competition Winner
Posts: 3932
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

15 Jul 2021

guitfnky wrote:
15 Jul 2021
wait, the text in the middle part of the screen? isn’t that *supposed* to look like a digital display? it’d look weird if that shit had smooth crisp text, IMO.
It looks like R12 uses a not-so-good method of interpolation to stretch the digital display. There will be costs and benefits for each method.

That being said, this is something they could redo to be as scaleable as RE custom displays.

PhillipOrdonez
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15 Jul 2021

Is it my eyesight, or vaseline looks much better on my phone? 😂😂😂

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Faastwalker
Posts: 2281
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: NSW, Australia

15 Jul 2021

selig wrote:
15 Jul 2021
Faastwalker wrote:
15 Jul 2021
In any case, still feel like the Hi-Res function is a bit on the clunky side. And would have loved to have it for each element of Reason as opposed to the whole thing. Again, maybe my monitor?!
These are two different features, rack/device zooming and application zoom. Application zooming was done first (has been requested for YEARS!), hopefully device zooming will be relatively quick to follow.
Hopefully, but I’m not so sure. Again, this is of no concern to people using Reason as a plug-in and sadly this seems to be the focus of Reason now. More and more the Reason DAW is feeling left out in the cold. To be frank Application Zoom at anything above (for me) 120% looks ridiculous! It’s an accessibility feature. A god send to the visually impaired, if all the elements get around to updating. It almost seems impractical, I’m sure, to everyone else.

So for me it’s back to 100% At a push %110. As JP pointed out, did anyone REALLY want their transport bar taking up such a huge chunk of screen real estate when Hi-Res was being touted like the second coming?! Hi-res for me is - zoom up to about %160, go and put the kettle on, make a nice cup of tea, wait for it to brew. Wait …… wait. Take your tea back to your machine. If (big ‘if’) it’s updated marvel at how nice it looks. Maybe take a screen shot to post up on social media or your favourite forum …….. then reduce back to a more manageable and useful size. Say, 100% :-/

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bxbrkrz
Posts: 3814
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

15 Jul 2021

Image

I can see the difference now.
757365206C6F67696320746F207365656B20616E73776572732075736520726561736F6E20746F2066696E6420776973646F6D20676574206F7574206F6620796F757220636F6D666F7274207A6F6E65206F7220796F757220696E737069726174696F6E2077696C6C206372797374616C6C697A6520666F7265766572

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Billy+
Posts: 4157
Joined: 09 Dec 2016

15 Jul 2021

So I finally laid my eyes on V12HiDPI/Res and it's interesting I kinda get it and I think I understand what's going on with the devices but I really don't think that RS explained the depth of the idea. I can honestly say that 100% in 12 is clearly visually appealing but I don't think 100% in 11 and lower is worth the extra resources which is a shame.

Having a massive rack might be good in some circumstances ;) but for the standalone DAW it's not making sense and the delay is off putting, it gets better but the resources that are used to build and maintain the rack really could have been should have been used for audio processing.

I hope they are working on it and I hope that everyone has the patience to wait until they get it right but I again think they have pushed it out early just like content packs and companion, thinking about all that RS have pushed this last year is amazing but the way it's been done seems rushed all most like the wrong people are making the decisions and have forced the others into a release that's just not ready.

Guys People Developers push back tell the truth and say what needs to be done before YOU are happy with your own work don't let some bean pusher tell you your done, it's ready..... tell them you have pride in your work and it's ready when YOU say! We love you and your product, we've waited before, we will wait again but this current situation can only be solved within.......

Good Luck :clap:

VariableX
Posts: 564
Joined: 02 Apr 2018

15 Jul 2021

Zac wrote:
15 Jul 2021
Faastwalker wrote:
15 Jul 2021

Same. Currently I'm somewhat 'nonplussed' as it goes :lol:
Lol 😂
took me a few seconds! good one 😂

VariableX
Posts: 564
Joined: 02 Apr 2018

15 Jul 2021

StephenHutchinson wrote:
15 Jul 2021
VariableX wrote:
15 Jul 2021
ok i bought the 3 dollar 3 month ( only paid a dollar so far)
I have no intension of paying for Reason+ proper and am awaiting my 12 upgrade as part of the upgrading to Reason 11 deal.

I was pumped to try it hires early and $3 seemed like a bargain. I wanted to run at 140% but even hours later devices are blurred, the transport play stop and other buttons are blurred .... changed to 120% hours later blurred, so back to 100% now im not on a high res screen think its 1900 by 1080 or something so maybe I shouldn't be paying with the zoom?

I also wanted to try a few devices and check the sound packs...
Friktion is awesome ( bit blurry haha ) but it really sounds good to me, im not one for buying synths because i have so many but you know if it was on super sale i might bite.

The sound packs seem a bit meh to me too, ive only tried a couple i suppose, but they are like 10 sounds each and i quickly removed the ones i installed.. i guess if you wanna hear sounds from a style and get inspired they are useful..but i have so many presets and real sound packs from loopmasters i doubt i'd be using them unless i got interested in a completely different genre.

I am looking forward to the proper upgrade...but probably should have waited..

From memory i think the download was 4gb but included the standard sound librarys, maybe it should give you the option to exclude these and include the hires images?

so all up - disappointing, but, still pumped and caint wait for perpetual R12 to drop!
Did you remember to go into the Reason+ Companion app and "Upgrade Installed Devices to Hi-Res" under Reason+ Rack Extensions as well as under "Your other licenced Rack Extensions" ?
hey yes i did - thanks tho

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DaveyG
Posts: 2499
Joined: 03 May 2020

16 Jul 2021

Maybe it will be better by release day but it does feel like another half-arsed solution from RS, like announcing VST compatibility and then users discovering that it does not include VST MIDI or VST3.

We'll see RS staff championing the hi-res stuff, prominent users and mods on this forum justifying and rationalising (and excusing) the implementation but a large chunk of users will be left thinking "That's not really what we asked for".

Maybe the new devices will make up for it.

kbard
Posts: 121
Joined: 05 Jun 2021

16 Jul 2021

Carpainter wrote:
15 Jul 2021
Reason is now auto-scaling devices based on your resolution and DPI settings. VST plugins don't do that. It also has to load a high enough resolution version of each device to look good when zoomed in as high as 200% on a 4k display. Other than giving people the option to switch to a legacy display mode with the old low-rez devices, I'm not sure what they can do for people who don't want to deal with the load times.
FYI it is not automatic (at least not in my case). You have to select it by hand. Like you need to go into options and then you have to select zoom.

And all other VSTs which has "zoom" feature works exactly the same way. You have to select it. And then they scale.

I also seen VST devices which scaled up based on DPI settings in windows. On the other hand on my Mac, UAD plugins are enlarged if you use Retina.


Note: I am not whining or complain about splash screens etc. To me Reason 12 is fantastic. I don't mind waiting for hires device to load for the first time after which they load in second.

I just wanted to comment your "automatic" thing.

On the other hand I am really saddened seeing response here. People complain about splash screens or hi res loading time. Both of which are really no practical issues. Because you don't make music with splash screens nor do you have problems with the hires screens once they load completely. After that loading is instant in the future.

It must be hard being developer in the audio industry. People complain about unbelievable stuff. I know developers cannot predict every angle out there. It is impossible to please every person that is fine. I understand older user being disappointed by not having something they requested for a long time since. But this is not it.

When you see people complaining and downplaying (instead of being constructive) on a product about splash screens, or a loading time which is only caused for a first time, or the shades of colors covering knobs, or angle of shadows, or 3 pixels - whatever - in the music making app - you know you are dealing with people not being grateful for what they have. And this is all wrapped under the standard "we just want perfect product". Or "I paid you therefore I can piss on you"

It must be disheartening being developer in DAW or plugin industry.

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fullforce
Posts: 849
Joined: 18 Aug 2018

16 Jul 2021

There's not even freaking hotkeys for increasing/decreasing the zoom level.
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fullforce
Posts: 849
Joined: 18 Aug 2018

16 Jul 2021

kbard wrote:
16 Jul 2021
Note: I am not whining or complain about splash screens
You must not be familiar with the saying about leaving a good first impression.
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