Help with midi tempo/beat alignment

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pongasoft
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Post 19 Jun 2021

Screen Shot 2021-06-19 at 09.58.58.png


I recorded (without using click) a very simple drum patterns as shown in the above screenshot. The tempo happened to be set to 100bpm, but because I did not use clicks, the tempo is irrelevant: if I play this pattern it obviously plays it at the same speed I recorded it. But clearly it doesn't align to the grid. Where the play position is currently located in the screenshot is where grid 2 should be.

So what should I do so that the pattern plays at the same speed I recorded it but the grid is aligned so that it loops properly?

Thanks
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orthodox
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Post 19 Jun 2021

Calculate the position of the last bar grid within the clip. Cut off the rest. Turn off the snap and Ctrl-drag(Win)/Cmd-drag(Mac) the right end of the clip to the correct position of the last bar grid. Then correct the tempo.

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pongasoft
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Post 19 Jun 2021

orthodox wrote:
19 Jun 2021
Then correct the tempo.
What does that mean? I don't know what the tempo should be...

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orthodox
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Post 19 Jun 2021

pongasoft wrote:
19 Jun 2021
orthodox wrote:
19 Jun 2021
Then correct the tempo.
What does that mean? I don't know what the tempo should be...
I would multiply the current tempo by the ratio of the stretch that I applied to the clip.

EDIT: There's another way. You can begin with bouncing the clip to an audio clip. Disable stretch on that audio clip, then adjust the tempo until the beats match the grid.

deeplink
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Post 19 Jun 2021

Can't you just stretch the clip out until the note {where the play head is at) starts on the third bar?

Then increase the BPM until it sounds like the same speed it used to be.

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orthodox
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Post 19 Jun 2021

deeplink wrote:
19 Jun 2021
Can't you just stretch the clip out until the note {where the play head is at) starts on the third bar?

Then increase the BPM until it sounds like the same speed it used to be.
Yeah, that's what I meant but couldn't find the right words. A bit of a language barrier.

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pushedbutton
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Post 20 Jun 2021

On a related note, but just to make things a whole lot more complicated, I have the stems for 'september' by earth wind and fire and I have a midi file that's from another source.
I'm planning to re-record everything with reason instruments and use the stems as reference.
Getting the stems to line up with the midi isn't as easy as it would be with a more recent dance track so any strategies to make the process of getting everything on the grid would be appreciated.
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stillifegaijin
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Post 21 Jun 2021

Wouldn’t it be easier to figure out the tempo you want it to be, the tempo closest to what you played, then just start over and play it properly to a click at that tempo? Seems easier and faster than all the math and calculations.

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mcatalao
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Post 21 Jun 2021

pushedbutton wrote:
20 Jun 2021
On a related note, but just to make things a whole lot more complicated, I have the stems for 'september' by earth wind and fire and I have a midi file that's from another source.
I'm planning to re-record everything with reason instruments and use the stems as reference.
Getting the stems to line up with the midi isn't as easy as it would be with a more recent dance track so any strategies to make the process of getting everything on the grid would be appreciated.
I doubt everything is at tempo in those stems. That's the 70'ies i think at that time people relied more on drummers than on metronomes.
What i do in those situations, is put those tracks on Melodyne and generate a tempo map track. You can then pull that tempo mapping to reason and it will follow the track's tempo. You can't forget to disable stretching on the initial tracks, but it works.

RS presented a similar method where they mapped tempo from a guitar, completely manual. It is however a very tedious process and prone to err. Melodye uses IA to calculate the correct tempo. I've done this quite often and always amazes me how well it works!

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pongasoft
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Post 21 Jun 2021

Here is what I ended up doing after the various advice.

* I moved the R handle so that my clip would play a perfect loop at the current tempo which is the tempo the recording was made at but not the tempo of the beat I played
* I made sure that the clip length would stop at R by cutting anything extra
* I moved the play head to R which then gave me the exact length of the clip in seconds (in my case 6.5s), which you can read at the bottom of the screen
* Then I stretched the clip while holding Cmd (on Mac) until the right side of the loop fell on 3 in the grid (I recorded an 8 beat loop)
* Using some very simple math I computed the tempo of my clip: 8 beats must play in 6.5s so the tempo should be 60*8/6.5 ~ 74bpm. No need to guess...

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stillifegaijin
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Post 22 Jun 2021

or just learn to play the part?? why are you turning this into a math equation? why?

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pongasoft
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Post 22 Jun 2021

stillifegaijin wrote:
22 Jun 2021
or just learn to play the part?? why are you turning this into a math equation? why?
That is a very condescending statement. Some people are less talented than others at "playing". You should respect that. If using math to figure out the tempo of my song is the way that works for me then please don't be an ass about it.

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selig
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Post 22 Jun 2021

I'd take the "dumb" approach and leave out the calculations. First align the first note to the song start, then cut the clip so it loops. Note the TIME of the end of the loop, then stretch the loop to fit the correct bars and simply put the play head at the END of the loop and adjust the tempo with the plus/minus keys until the TIME matches the original length of the loop (don't hit play…).
Simples, no math, no fuss! ;)
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guitfnky
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Post 22 Jun 2021

stillifegaijin wrote:
22 Jun 2021
or just learn to play the part?? why are you turning this into a math equation? why?
why would you re-record the part if you’re already happy with the performance? that’s one of the first things you learn about recording—the performance is the most important thing; once you’ve got that, you do what you need to make it work. sounds like the OP got their answer without having to delete and start over and risk ending up with a less compelling performance.
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Post 22 Jun 2021

stillifegaijin wrote:
22 Jun 2021
or just learn to play the part?? why are you turning this into a math equation? why?
math and music are intrinsically intertwined.
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What MIDI tools are you itching to use

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pongasoft
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Post 22 Jun 2021

guitfnky wrote:
22 Jun 2021
stillifegaijin wrote:
22 Jun 2021
or just learn to play the part?? why are you turning this into a math equation? why?
why would you re-record the part if you’re already happy with the performance? that’s one of the first things you learn about recording—the performance is the most important thing; once you’ve got that, you do what you need to make it work. sounds like the OP got their answer without having to delete and start over and risk ending up with a less compelling performance.
That is exactly right. Re-recording the part would not change the fact that I was very happy with the first recording so there is no point in redoing the recording. It just happened that I just needed to make my recording fit a tempo and I was just asking help for that. No need to criticize the method used because I am not a "good" player. In this instance the recording was not the issue. If Reason would simply let me drag the grid to align to my recording, thus adjusting the tempo automatically, then that would be it and I wouldn't have had to ask for help.

In any way, I am satisfied with my solution (thanks to the people who gave constructive advise) since I was able to achieve what I wanted to do.

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jam-s
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Post 22 Jun 2021

pongasoft wrote:
22 Jun 2021
If Reason would simply let me drag the grid to align to my recording, thus adjusting the tempo automatically, then that would be it and I wouldn't have had to ask for help.
I think you kind of can do this by adding a tempo automation clip with a single point in it to the tempo lane and then changing its value. By doing this the grid should change until you have it aligned. (Your audio clip should have stretch disabled of course while doing this.)
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pongasoft
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Post 23 Jun 2021

jam-s wrote:
22 Jun 2021
pongasoft wrote:
22 Jun 2021
If Reason would simply let me drag the grid to align to my recording, thus adjusting the tempo automatically, then that would be it and I wouldn't have had to ask for help.
I think you kind of can do this by adding a tempo automation clip with a single point in it to the tempo lane and then changing its value. By doing this the grid should change until you have it aligned. (Your audio clip should have stretch disabled of course while doing this.)
It is not an audio clip but I suppose it could be bounced to one. I will try this. Thanks.

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stillifegaijin
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Post 24 Jun 2021

pongasoft wrote:
22 Jun 2021
stillifegaijin wrote:
22 Jun 2021
or just learn to play the part?? why are you turning this into a math equation? why?
That is a very condescending statement. Some people are less talented than others at "playing". You should respect that. If using math to figure out the tempo of my song is the way that works for me then please don't be an ass about it.
Did you even consider that maybe I wasn't being "condescending"? Maybe I was encouraging you to push your personal boundaries and learn to "play" better? You could always save the original but "try" to play it at the correct tempo. You know, try to get better at the thing you say you aren't very good at. Try to be a better musician? If you did it once you can do it again. That's sort of part of this whole process. It's not about doing it once and calling it a day. At least I never felt that way. I re-record things all the time. But hey, maybe I expect too much of myself and of others. Best of luck.

visheshl
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Post 24 Jun 2021

Did noone think of BPM counters?
I would have simply downloaded a tap tempo BPM counter app on my phone, tapped the tempo at which the midi is playing, exported the midi, made a new project with tap tempo BPM, imported the midi and then quantised it.
That's what I would have done, if I understand your problem correctly

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selig
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Post 24 Jun 2021

visheshl wrote:
24 Jun 2021
Did noone think of BPM counters?
I would have simply downloaded a tap tempo BPM counter app on my phone, tapped the tempo at which the midi is playing, exported the midi, made a new project with tap tempo BPM, imported the midi and then quantised it.
That's what I would have done, if I understand your problem correctly
There should be no need for the export/import steps; once you know the tempo, just enter the tempo to match for the current song and then stretch the note clip to fill the bar(s) - Quantize if necessary. Or just do as I suggested earlier (note the length of the original note clip in seconds/milliseconds) and skip the tap tempo step too!
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