Reason 12 is coming!

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Lotuz2019
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Post 15 Jun 2021

OverneathTheSkyBridg wrote:
15 Jun 2021
I notice a lot of recent comments about having VST inside the RRP. While I'm sure VST3 support is on the way for R12, I doubt they'll ever have the ability to load VSTs inside the RRP. Seems kind of redundant when the DAW the RRP is running inside of can open VSTs on it's own. RS is clearly putting more focus towards the plugin end of things, so I don't see them going all "Inception" on the plugin itself.
RRP would become an awesome plugin chainer if it could load VST plugins too.

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Loque
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Post 15 Jun 2021

plaamook wrote:
15 Jun 2021
...
Curse you making the 1000th post :cry:
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freshkidblaze
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Post 15 Jun 2021

Lotuz2019 wrote:
15 Jun 2021
OverneathTheSkyBridg wrote:
15 Jun 2021
I notice a lot of recent comments about having VST inside the RRP. While I'm sure VST3 support is on the way for R12, I doubt they'll ever have the ability to load VSTs inside the RRP. Seems kind of redundant when the DAW the RRP is running inside of can open VSTs on it's own. RS is clearly putting more focus towards the plugin end of things, so I don't see them going all "Inception" on the plugin itself.
RRP would become an awesome plugin chainer if it could load VST plugins too.
Voltage Modular did it with the vst2/3 versions of their software.

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plaamook
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Post 15 Jun 2021

Loque wrote:
15 Jun 2021
plaamook wrote:
15 Jun 2021
...
Curse you making the 1000th post :cry:
Shit. I didn't even notice. What a waste eh?
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plaamook
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Post 15 Jun 2021

freshkidblaze wrote:
15 Jun 2021
Lotuz2019 wrote:
15 Jun 2021


RRP would become an awesome plugin chainer if it could load VST plugins too.
Voltage Modular did it with the vst2/3 versions of their software.
That's encouraging. I wasn't even sure if it was possible.
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MrFigg
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Post 15 Jun 2021

Loque wrote:
15 Jun 2021
plaamook wrote:
15 Jun 2021
...
Curse you making the 1000th post :cry:
Hej…you’re a mod now. Just delete a few of the other posts then get yours in at number 1000.
丰2ॐ

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chimp_spanner
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Post 15 Jun 2021

adfielding wrote:
15 Jun 2021


This has made me feel like I should take a minute to balance my criticism with the things that I absolutely take for granted with Reason that I really miss elsewhere. So, off the top of my head-

- Universal undo. I'm not 100% sure how VST undo even works in Reason, but it is glorious.
- Blocks. Blocks are amazing, I wish every DAW had Blocks.
- Players. Other DAWs get VST MIDI plug-ins, but Reason gets Players and I know which one I prefer. Beat Map and Evolution in particular are amazing.
- Automation. Reason's automation is amazing. Alt+click automation in the rack and the automation button for VSTs. Perfect.
- Unified audio pitch editor & quantization. Other DAWs have their own versions of this, but I really like how it all works together in Reason.
- The groove mixer. 99% of the time I use it for humanising elements or moving individual drum hits a hair forward or back, and that's great.

That's the incredibly un-sexy-but-really-incredibly-useful kind of stuff I love.
Best thing about the automation is static values. If I'm in Cubase and I automate 10 things on a synth for a transition, I have to create points for the parameters to return back to otherwise the sound is screwed for the rest of the song. And because the automation isn't in its own clip, if I move the MIDI data around, it leaves a trail of junk automation behind it. It's a nightmare. Automation in Reason is in the top 3 things that keeps me working in it, hands down.

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Jackjackdaw
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Post 15 Jun 2021

I don't know if it will help but I just found this neat article with Cubase automation tips

https://ask.audio/articles/automation-w ... and-tricks

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guitfnky
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Post 15 Jun 2021

chimp_spanner wrote:
15 Jun 2021
adfielding wrote:
15 Jun 2021


This has made me feel like I should take a minute to balance my criticism with the things that I absolutely take for granted with Reason that I really miss elsewhere. So, off the top of my head-

- Universal undo. I'm not 100% sure how VST undo even works in Reason, but it is glorious.
- Blocks. Blocks are amazing, I wish every DAW had Blocks.
- Players. Other DAWs get VST MIDI plug-ins, but Reason gets Players and I know which one I prefer. Beat Map and Evolution in particular are amazing.
- Automation. Reason's automation is amazing. Alt+click automation in the rack and the automation button for VSTs. Perfect.
- Unified audio pitch editor & quantization. Other DAWs have their own versions of this, but I really like how it all works together in Reason.
- The groove mixer. 99% of the time I use it for humanising elements or moving individual drum hits a hair forward or back, and that's great.

That's the incredibly un-sexy-but-really-incredibly-useful kind of stuff I love.
Best thing about the automation is static values. If I'm in Cubase and I automate 10 things on a synth for a transition, I have to create points for the parameters to return back to otherwise the sound is screwed for the rest of the song. And because the automation isn't in its own clip, if I move the MIDI data around, it leaves a trail of junk automation behind it. It's a nightmare. Automation in Reason is in the top 3 things that keeps me working in it, hands down.
👍🏼 it is pretty nice to use automation in Reason. I do wish they’d set nodes at the beginning and end of new automation clips that match the current static value. this would be an amazing enhancement, so I wouldn’t have to manually take that step (nearly) every time I automate something.
I write bad music for good people

latest release—The Lake Door:
bit.ly/TheLakeDoor-Soundcloud
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QVprod
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Post 15 Jun 2021

EnochLight wrote:
14 Jun 2021
Loque wrote:
14 Jun 2021
If i would be RS, i would invest first in the rack since probably a lot of new customers just use the RRP and to please the majority, you need to invest in the rack.
The bizarre thing is - Mattias himself is the one who pushed for VST support inside of Reason DAW proper when he took over as Product Manager back in Reason 9 (those actions alone kept me in Reason). As recent as 6 months ago, during the Reason+ Livestream, he actually stated - and I quote:

"..We're still committed to making Reason is good as possible, and if - you know - the majority of people are using the DAW, at which - SPOILER ALERT - THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE ARE STILL USING THE DAW - we're definitely going to want to make you really happy..."

He says it at the 1 hour 17 minute mark here:



So, Reason+ launched since then. I can't imagine the majority of users suddenly shifting to RRP only in the 5 months since it launched - certainly not giving RS enough time to change the trajectory for what was planned for Reason 12, so this begs the question:

WHY IN THE F$%K WOULD THEY NOT ADD MORE CORE SEQUENCER/REASON DAW FEATURES AT THE LAUNCH OF 12??!!!

I just find it strange. And as a Reason+ subscriber, I doubt my intent to keep paying for it. :puf_unhappy:

OK, I'll stop now. I've beat the dead horse so much it's unrecognizable at this point. :lol:
I think they’ve always seen them as one and the same. Or.. rather, judging from most updates over the years and the blog post, the rack is primary/central. The “core experience” if you will. I’m sure they’ll sprinkle some sequencer stuff eventually as they tend to do, but I doubt we’re gonna get something competitive to S1.

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Billy+
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Post 15 Jun 2021

guitfnky wrote:
15 Jun 2021
👍🏼 it is pretty nice to use automation in Reason. I do wish they’d set nodes at the beginning and end of new automation clips that match the current static value. this would be an amazing enhancement, so I wouldn’t have to manually take that step (nearly) every time I automate something.
Having a default start and end node when creating an automation lane would be such a simple thing to add it makes you wonder why it's never been added.

Sometimes it's the little things....
VST 2.4 MIDI It's definitely on the list of todos
What MIDI tools are you itching to use

ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ Time for a good long sleep ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ

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QVprod
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Post 15 Jun 2021

guitfnky wrote:
15 Jun 2021
chimp_spanner wrote:
15 Jun 2021


Best thing about the automation is static values. If I'm in Cubase and I automate 10 things on a synth for a transition, I have to create points for the parameters to return back to otherwise the sound is screwed for the rest of the song. And because the automation isn't in its own clip, if I move the MIDI data around, it leaves a trail of junk automation behind it. It's a nightmare. Automation in Reason is in the top 3 things that keeps me working in it, hands down.
👍🏼 it is pretty nice to use automation in Reason. I do wish they’d set nodes at the beginning and end of new automation clips that match the current static value. this would be an amazing enhancement, so I wouldn’t have to manually take that step (nearly) every time I automate something.
Right, so long as you’re not automating tons of devices it works well. I would prefer fx automations to be nested in the instrument tracks they’re connected to though. The having to draw in the current value is another drawback.

PhillipOrdonez
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Post 15 Jun 2021

MrFigg wrote:
15 Jun 2021
Loque wrote:
15 Jun 2021


Curse you making the 1000th post :cry:
Hej…you’re a mod now. Just delete a few of the other posts then get yours in at number 1000.
Plenty of posts of mine that could be deleted and never be missed. I kindly donate them to you, Enoch, for this worthy endeavour. 🤗

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guitfnky
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Post 15 Jun 2021

QVprod wrote:
15 Jun 2021
guitfnky wrote:
15 Jun 2021


👍🏼 it is pretty nice to use automation in Reason. I do wish they’d set nodes at the beginning and end of new automation clips that match the current static value. this would be an amazing enhancement, so I wouldn’t have to manually take that step (nearly) every time I automate something.
Right, so long as you’re not automating tons of devices it works well. I would prefer fx automations to be nested in the instrument tracks they’re connected to though. The having to draw in the current value is another drawback.
I would love for the automation tracks to be nested under their associated instruments or grouped together for effects that might not have explicit tracks created. to my mind, that falls under track folders (don’t even get me started on that 😆).

the automation process itself works really well (save for that one enhancement I’d like to see).
I write bad music for good people

latest release—The Lake Door:
bit.ly/TheLakeDoor-Soundcloud
https://slowrobot.bandcamp.com/track/the-lake-door

Carpainter
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Post 15 Jun 2021

adfielding wrote:
15 Jun 2021
Initially, the idea was to use the RRP as a bit of a safety net - I fully expected to use instances of the RRP all over the place, so that shifting away from Reason standalone would be easier. However, what's actually happened is that I've just found myself barely firing up the RRP - I'm just using VSTs instead. This made me realise that I've actually been pretty VST-heavy with my use of Reason over the past few years, so it's not really a big surprise that, instead of using the RRP, I'm just using other VST plug-ins in Cubase instead. Just to clarify: the availability of the RRP encouraged me to try Cubase, which made me realise that I'm actually ok with mostly not using the RRP in Cubase. It's a bit of an own-goal really, and I'm genuinely curious as to whether anyone else has experienced something similar.
I think the real own-goal was waiting too long to implement VST support and never implementing a feature-complete version of it. Instead of giving Reason VST3 support, they turned Reason into a VST3 plugin. Even if you're someone like me who views Reason primarily as a sound design tool with a sequencer attached, you're out of luck if one or more of your favorite VST plugins is only available in VST3 format.

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chimp_spanner
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Post 15 Jun 2021

Billy+ wrote:
15 Jun 2021
guitfnky wrote:
15 Jun 2021
👍🏼 it is pretty nice to use automation in Reason. I do wish they’d set nodes at the beginning and end of new automation clips that match the current static value. this would be an amazing enhancement, so I wouldn’t have to manually take that step (nearly) every time I automate something.
Having a default start and end node when creating an automation lane would be such a simple thing to add it makes you wonder why it's never been added.

Sometimes it's the little things....
That’s a nice idea! Never thought of that. I’m just so used to SHIFT + double clicking to make a start node that I never considered it should/could be automatic.

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QVprod
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Post 15 Jun 2021

guitfnky wrote:
15 Jun 2021
QVprod wrote:
15 Jun 2021


Right, so long as you’re not automating tons of devices it works well. I would prefer fx automations to be nested in the instrument tracks they’re connected to though. The having to draw in the current value is another drawback.

I would love for the automation tracks to be nested under their associated instruments or grouped together for effects that might not have explicit tracks created. to my mind, that falls under track folders (don’t even get me started on that 😆).

the automation process itself works really well (save for that one enhancement I’d like to see).
You know, in Studio One I find track folders to be unnecessary for my workflow. Never use them. With all the automation being nested, there isn’t much to organize. I don’t really do too many crazy large sessions.

…But that would be an interesting work around for the automation and devices track “issue” in Reason. This way you still have freedom of routing. Very fair point!

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orthodox
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Post 15 Jun 2021

guitfnky wrote:
15 Jun 2021
I do wish they’d set nodes at the beginning and end of new automation clips that match the current static value. this would be an amazing enhancement, so I wouldn’t have to manually take that step (nearly) every time I automate something.
That would break another feature that I use all the time. Now I can create one node anywhere in a newly created clip and that sets the automation value for the whole clip. With the beginning/end nodes defined I would get two slopes.

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avasopht
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Post 15 Jun 2021

Carpainter wrote:
15 Jun 2021
I think the real own-goal was waiting too long to implement VST support and never implementing a feature-complete version of it. Instead of giving Reason VST3 support, they turned Reason into a VST3 plugin. Even if you're someone like me who views Reason primarily as a sound design tool with a sequencer attached, you're out of luck if one or more of your favorite VST plugins is only available in VST3 format.
These sorts of things are difficult to gauge ahead of time.

If they added VSTs, maybe we wouldn't have had Rack Extensions. Or we could have Rack Extensions, but few make them as they can always just make a VST or Reaktor patch.
---

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chimp_spanner
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Post 15 Jun 2021

QVprod wrote:
15 Jun 2021
guitfnky wrote:
15 Jun 2021



I would love for the automation tracks to be nested under their associated instruments or grouped together for effects that might not have explicit tracks created. to my mind, that falls under track folders (don’t even get me started on that 😆).

the automation process itself works really well (save for that one enhancement I’d like to see).
You know, in Studio One I find track folders to be unnecessary for my workflow. Never use them. With all the automation being nested, there isn’t much to organize. I don’t really do too many crazy large sessions.

…But that would be an interesting work around for the automation and devices track “issue” in Reason. This way you still have freedom of routing. Very fair point!
For me folders are a great way of getting control of larger arrangements. I like being able to package all the sections of my arrangement (drums, synths, guitars, whatever) into a single track, and in Cubase this is actually represented by a clip/part at the track folder level that can be moved around or copied. Arguably a better way of handling multiple clips/parts on multiple tracks than selecting, and re-selecting, over and over again. Also really useful for making drum beats in the arranger using audio clips. Hit collapse, and a hundred little clips become one.

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Billy+
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Post 15 Jun 2021

chimp_spanner wrote:
15 Jun 2021
Billy+ wrote:
15 Jun 2021


Having a default start and end node when creating an automation lane would be such a simple thing to add it makes you wonder why it's never been added.

Sometimes it's the little things....
That’s a nice idea! Never thought of that. I’m just so used to SHIFT + double clicking to make a start node that I never considered it should/could be automatic.
Yeah that's basically what I do,

Once I've decided to start using automation I usually create an automation clip the full length of my track
Add a node at the end scroll to the start add another one do a select all then set the default value followed by a shift drag for the just before point, I create way to many points at regular intervals then move them back and forth up and down.

It's such a habit now I hardly ever think about it, the same as sticking a device inside a combinator even if it doesn't call for it, i prefer multi lanes for different sections and being able to close them down just helps keep the sequencer tidy..
VST 2.4 MIDI It's definitely on the list of todos
What MIDI tools are you itching to use

ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ Time for a good long sleep ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ

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QVprod
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Post 15 Jun 2021

chimp_spanner wrote:
15 Jun 2021
QVprod wrote:
15 Jun 2021


You know, in Studio One I find track folders to be unnecessary for my workflow. Never use them. With all the automation being nested, there isn’t much to organize. I don’t really do too many crazy large sessions.

…But that would be an interesting work around for the automation and devices track “issue” in Reason. This way you still have freedom of routing. Very fair point!
For me folders are a great way of getting control of larger arrangements. I like being able to package all the sections of my arrangement (drums, synths, guitars, whatever) into a single track, and in Cubase this is actually represented by a clip/part at the track folder level that can be moved around or copied. Arguably a better way of handling multiple clips/parts on multiple tracks than selecting, and re-selecting, over and over again. Also really useful for making drum beats in the arranger using audio clips. Hit collapse, and a hundred little clips become one.
Makes sense. I imagine if I was ever doing massive film type scoring, I'd have more use for them. Drums are usually on a single midi track, or more recently, done in Machine's sequencer.

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zoidkirb
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Post 15 Jun 2021

chimp_spanner wrote:
15 Jun 2021
adfielding wrote:
15 Jun 2021


This has made me feel like I should take a minute to balance my criticism with the things that I absolutely take for granted with Reason that I really miss elsewhere. So, off the top of my head-

- Universal undo. I'm not 100% sure how VST undo even works in Reason, but it is glorious.
- Blocks. Blocks are amazing, I wish every DAW had Blocks.
- Players. Other DAWs get VST MIDI plug-ins, but Reason gets Players and I know which one I prefer. Beat Map and Evolution in particular are amazing.
- Automation. Reason's automation is amazing. Alt+click automation in the rack and the automation button for VSTs. Perfect.
- Unified audio pitch editor & quantization. Other DAWs have their own versions of this, but I really like how it all works together in Reason.
- The groove mixer. 99% of the time I use it for humanising elements or moving individual drum hits a hair forward or back, and that's great.

That's the incredibly un-sexy-but-really-incredibly-useful kind of stuff I love.
Best thing about the automation is static values. If I'm in Cubase and I automate 10 things on a synth for a transition, I have to create points for the parameters to return back to otherwise the sound is screwed for the rest of the song. And because the automation isn't in its own clip, if I move the MIDI data around, it leaves a trail of junk automation behind it. It's a nightmare. Automation in Reason is in the top 3 things that keeps me working in it, hands down.
In Cubase there's a setting called something like 'enable virgin territories' which makes it more like Reason where untouched areas of automation remain at original values.

Reason's automation clips are very handy , especially when it comes to copying clips around between tracks. But Cubase has a huge advantage with its Range tool, you can very quickly and precisely slice out chunks of automation and build or move around complex sections.

Another nifty thing is that automation can be tied to move and/or copy along with its parent midi clip when it's moved/duplicated.

Also, custom key commands to collapse/hide all automation on that track and/or every track automation is fantastic for de-cluttering projects.

Still, I'll not say Cubase is better at automation in general. I think they both have their strengths, and I wish they would borrow a feature or two off each other.

When I work in either DAW I end up with a different automation workflow. Not a bad thing personally as im ok adapting workflows.

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guitfnky
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Post 15 Jun 2021

orthodox wrote:
15 Jun 2021
guitfnky wrote:
15 Jun 2021
I do wish they’d set nodes at the beginning and end of new automation clips that match the current static value. this would be an amazing enhancement, so I wouldn’t have to manually take that step (nearly) every time I automate something.
That would break another feature that I use all the time. Now I can create one node anywhere in a newly created clip and that sets the automation value for the whole clip. With the beginning/end nodes defined I would get two slopes.
ah, but it wouldn’t though, because within this fever dream utopian feature request, Reason Studios, in their infinite wisdom, would foresee this very predicament and give us a checkbox in Preferences for how you want the default behavior to work—and even better, they would add a shortcut modifier key that you can press to get it to do the opposite of your default preference. 😆
I write bad music for good people

latest release—The Lake Door:
bit.ly/TheLakeDoor-Soundcloud
https://slowrobot.bandcamp.com/track/the-lake-door

Carpainter
Posts: 91
Joined: 28 Sep 2019

Post 15 Jun 2021

avasopht wrote:
15 Jun 2021
These sorts of things are difficult to gauge ahead of time.

If they added VSTs, maybe we wouldn't have had Rack Extensions. Or we could have Rack Extensions, but few make them as they can always just make a VST or Reaktor patch.
Sure, but what revenue they might have lost by not locking their best instruments behind a paywall may very well have been offset by the increased interest in Reason as a VST host.

The way I see it, the fact that they had to bring in venture capitalists to restructure the company means that they made some mistakes along the way. Not implementing VST earlier (and correctly) might have been a pivotal mistake.

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