Reason 12 is coming!

[OverneathTheSkyBridg]

I notice a lot of recent comments about having VST inside the RRP. While I'm sure VST3 support is on the way for R12, I doubt they'll ever have the ability to load VSTs inside the RRP. Seems kind of redundant when the DAW the RRP is running inside of can open VSTs on it's own. RS is clearly putting more focus towards the plugin end of things, so I don't see them going all "Inception" on the plugin itself.

One thing I think would be cool is if Reason Studios threw a curveball at us and surprised us with a totally new DAW, built from the ground up that just runs the RRP as a plugin.

[deeplink]

One thing I think would be cool is if Reason Studios threw a curveball at us and surprised us with a totally new DAW, built from the ground up that just runs the RRP as a plugin.

I don't think this will ever happen, nor would the majority of users want it to.
By essentially removing the Rack, RS will lose the unique inter-device integration, mixer and sequencer integration.
It take away what makes Reason special, and what you're left with is a very feature-poor DAW.

If you want the VST/RRP experience, simply detach the rack - keep it one rack wide and have it 'Stay on Top' in the Window settings (if preferable). Use the sequencer or mixer to navigate the Rack (like you would in any other DAW).

[Oberlai]

So in R10 you have forward and ping-pong loop modes. Would like an option to, upon key-release, exit loop mode and just play the sample until its end.

I could be wrong but isn't this FW-SUS mode in NN-XT?

Right, I see it now What I did, I opened "Edit Sample..." from right-clicking and I wish all those modes were present in that window as well and not just the NN-XT interface. Maybe they are in R11.

[adfielding]

Just wanted to chime in on this. I can't speak for adfielding, but I'll likely continue to use Reason in some capacity as time goes on.

Oh yeah - I haven't totally ditched Reason yet (though I'll get to that in a sec), I'm still using it for one-off ideas and sound design projects because it's still the environment I'm most familiar with, and it's also the environment I have the most fun working in when I can. That said, for all new projects going forward where I actually want to be able to use all of my stuff and not have to experience plug-in/wrapper hell I've been using Cubase for a couple of months.

Initially, the idea was to use the RRP as a bit of a safety net - I fully expected to use instances of the RRP all over the place, so that shifting away from Reason standalone would be easier. However, what's actually happened is that I've just found myself barely firing up the RRP - I'm just using VSTs instead. This made me realise that I've actually been pretty VST-heavy with my use of Reason over the past few years, so it's not really a big surprise that, instead of using the RRP, I'm just using other VST plug-ins in Cubase instead. Just to clarify: the availability of the RRP encouraged me to try Cubase, which made me realise that I'm actually ok with mostly not using the RRP in Cubase. It's a bit of an own-goal really, and I'm genuinely curious as to whether anyone else has experienced something similar. (just to clarify: I realise for a lot of people they're not going to have VST alternatives for everything, but I don't think it's much of a stretch to suggest that once someone makes the jump to another DAW they're going to be more inclined to stick with VSTs when looking at new plug-ins).

For me, this has cemented in my mind that Reason is greater than the sum of its parts. I know there are people who love it for the rack specifically, but for me it's how the rack, mixer, and sequencer all interact and work together that make Reason my favourite musical space. Maybe the new combinator will help there (though, no disrespect intended, I can't help but feel I'd have been more excited about that had it been introduced a decade ago), and maybe the new sampler will knock my socks off - but what I'm craving isn't new stuff, it's basic quality-of-life improvements. Less stuff, more refinement.

edit: yes, I get that the graphical update is a massive QoL improvement for a lot of people, it's just that - from a purely selfish perspective - it makes no real difference to me. It's unfortunate that the one big QoL improvement that's being introduced is one I don't have any need for, but hey... that's life!

[nebraskafire]

Just wanted to chime in on this. I can't speak for adfielding, but I'll likely continue to use Reason in some capacity as time goes on.

Oh yeah - I haven't totally ditched Reason yet (though I'll get to that in a sec), I'm still using it for one-off ideas and sound design projects because it's still the environment I'm most familiar with, and it's also the environment I have the most fun working in when I can. That said, for all new projects going forward where I actually want to be able to use all of my stuff and not have to experience plug-in/wrapper hell I've been using Cubase for a couple of months.

Initially, the idea was to use the RRP as a bit of a safety net - I fully expected to use instances of the RRP all over the place, so that shifting away from Reason standalone would be easier. However, what's actually happened is that I've just found myself barely firing up the RRP - I'm just using VSTs instead. This made me realise that I've actually been pretty VST-heavy with my use of Reason over the past few years, so it's not really a big surprise that, instead of using the RRP, I'm just using other VST plug-ins in Cubase instead. Just to clarify: the availability of the RRP encouraged me to try Cubase, which made me realise that I'm actually ok with mostly not using the RRP in Cubase. It's a bit of an own-goal really, and I'm genuinely curious as to whether anyone else has experienced something similar. (just to clarify: I realise for a lot of people they're not going to have VST alternatives for everything, but I don't think it's much of a stretch to suggest that once someone makes the jump to another DAW they're going to be more inclined to stick with VSTs when looking at new plug-ins).

For me, this has cemented in my mind that Reason is greater than the sum of its parts. I know there are people who love it for the rack specifically, but for me it's how the rack, mixer, and sequencer all interact and work together that make Reason my favourite musical space. Maybe the new combinator will help there (though, no disrespect intended, I can't help but feel I'd have been more excited about that had it been introduced a decade ago), and maybe the new sampler will knock my socks off - but what I'm craving isn't new stuff, it's basic quality-of-life improvements. Less stuff, more refinement.

edit: yes, I get that the graphical update is a massive QoL improvement for a lot of people, it's just that - from a purely selfish perspective - it makes no real difference to me. It's unfortunate that the one big QoL improvement that's being introduced is one I don't have any need for, but hey... that's life!

Same for me. I use Cubase 11 Pro for the last month because i bought very cheap from ebay and I m supprised that I dont use the RRP more often. Most of the time I load my Native stuff which I kind of never use in the Reason DAW which is kind of strange. The only thing I really use is the radical piano because it sounds kind of unique.

[elMisse]

Less stuff, more refinement.

This.

The messy sequencer keeps me in Live, even if I like Reasons editing workflow more, f.ex.

[chimp_spanner]

Just wanted to chime in on this. I can't speak for adfielding, but I'll likely continue to use Reason in some capacity as time goes on.

For me, this has cemented in my mind that Reason is greater than the sum of its parts.

^ Exactly. The reason why I've been working in Reason despite having objectively more fully featured alternatives is that the way all the parts work together is unique to the program. The way I can get any device to modulate any other device. Integrated pattern control and Player bouncing right there in the sequencer. Easy automation. All of that. It vibes well with how I like to work compared to more traditional sequencers. So I'll continue to ask for the same 5-10 things. If I get 1 or 2 of them in 12.x I guess I'll be happy but I will also be sharpening up my Cubase and Live skills just in case.

[Billy+]

The messy sequencer keeps me in Live, even if I like Reasons editing workflow more, f.ex.

Out of interest what do you find messy about the sequencer.

I can't get my head around live interface I've been using Reason since V1 and every time I've looked at live I just can't get my head around it my brother has always used live and everytime he sits me down in live I find the simplest things feel wrong and as soon as he leaves I load Reason my swap isn't going well at all lol...

[adfielding]

^ Exactly. The reason why I've been working in Reason despite having objectively more fully featured alternatives is that the way all the parts work together is unique to the program. The way I can get any device to modulate any other device. Integrated pattern control and Player bouncing right there in the sequencer. Easy automation. All of that. It vibes well with how I like to work compared to more traditional sequencers. So I'll continue to ask for the same 5-10 things. If I get 1 or 2 of them in 12.x I guess I'll be happy but I will also be sharpening up my Cubase and Live skills just in case.

This has made me feel like I should take a minute to balance my criticism with the things that I absolutely take for granted with Reason that I really miss elsewhere. So, off the top of my head-

- Universal undo. I'm not 100% sure how VST undo even works in Reason, but it is glorious.
- Blocks. Blocks are amazing, I wish every DAW had Blocks.
- Players. Other DAWs get VST MIDI plug-ins, but Reason gets Players and I know which one I prefer. Beat Map and Evolution in particular are amazing.
- Automation. Reason's automation is amazing. Alt+click automation in the rack and the automation button for VSTs. Perfect.
- Unified audio pitch editor & quantization. Other DAWs have their own versions of this, but I really like how it all works together in Reason.
- The groove mixer. 99% of the time I use it for humanising elements or moving individual drum hits a hair forward or back, and that's great.

That's the incredibly un-sexy-but-really-incredibly-useful kind of stuff I love.

[Billy+]

This has made me feel like I should take a minute to balance my criticism with the things that I absolutely take for granted with Reason that I really miss elsewhere. So, off the top of my head-

- Universal undo. I'm not 100% sure how VST undo even works in Reason, but it is glorious.
- Blocks. Blocks are amazing, I wish every DAW had Blocks.
- Players. Other DAWs get VST MIDI plug-ins, but Reason gets Players and I know which one I prefer. Beat Map and Evolution in particular are amazing.
- Automation. Reason's automation is amazing. Alt+click automation in the rack and the automation button for VSTs. Perfect.
- Unified audio pitch editor & quantization. Other DAWs have their own versions of this, but I really like how it all works together in Reason.
- The groove mixer. 99% of the time I use it for humanising elements or moving individual drum hits a hair forward or back, and that's great.

That's the incredibly un-sexy-but-really-incredibly-useful kind of stuff I love.

Snap.

It wouldn't take much to get a smile on my face ( vst midi | vst3 fully | better vst integration) but again the few simple things have been ignored in favour of stuff that I just don't see the need for (new sampler | new combinator | hi res )

[Popey]

Just wanted to chime in on this. I can't speak for adfielding, but I'll likely continue to use Reason in some capacity as time goes on.

Oh yeah - I haven't totally ditched Reason yet (though I'll get to that in a sec), I'm still using it for one-off ideas and sound design projects because it's still the environment I'm most familiar with, and it's also the environment I have the most fun working in when I can. That said, for all new projects going forward where I actually want to be able to use all of my stuff and not have to experience plug-in/wrapper hell I've been using Cubase for a couple of months.

Initially, the idea was to use the RRP as a bit of a safety net - I fully expected to use instances of the RRP all over the place, so that shifting away from Reason standalone would be easier. However, what's actually happened is that I've just found myself barely firing up the RRP - I'm just using VSTs instead. This made me realise that I've actually been pretty VST-heavy with my use of Reason over the past few years, so it's not really a big surprise that, instead of using the RRP, I'm just using other VST plug-ins in Cubase instead. Just to clarify: the availability of the RRP encouraged me to try Cubase, which made me realise that I'm actually ok with mostly not using the RRP in Cubase. It's a bit of an own-goal really, and I'm genuinely curious as to whether anyone else has experienced something similar. (just to clarify: I realise for a lot of people they're not going to have VST alternatives for everything, but I don't think it's much of a stretch to suggest that once someone makes the jump to another DAW they're going to be more inclined to stick with VSTs when looking at new plug-ins).

For me, this has cemented in my mind that Reason is greater than the sum of its parts. I know there are people who love it for the rack specifically, but for me it's how the rack, mixer, and sequencer all interact and work together that make Reason my favourite musical space. Maybe the new combinator will help there (though, no disrespect intended, I can't help but feel I'd have been more excited about that had it been introduced a decade ago), and maybe the new sampler will knock my socks off - but what I'm craving isn't new stuff, it's basic quality-of-life improvements. Less stuff, more refinement.

edit: yes, I get that the graphical update is a massive QoL improvement for a lot of people, it's just that - from a purely selfish perspective - it makes no real difference to me. It's unfortunate that the one big QoL improvement that's being introduced is one I don't have any need for, but hey... that's life!

I have kinda experienced this but only from the angle of not using the rrp synths. I still use rrp effects on every track i make but realised the other week I havent used a rrp synth for ages even though I used to use them all
the time (I bought diva and tend to use that for anything I used to go to the legend for but no idea why I havent used europa etc for so long). I actually started a track solely using re synths the other day and called it neglected re-lations as that's what they felt like to me.

[Jackjackdaw]

I think having both Cubase and Reason is great. I use both and have gripes about both but I never have any limitations.

[EnochLight]

as a Reason+ subscriber, I doubt my intent to keep paying for it.

You already had 11 suite that left Friktion Mutator and Algorithm, what made you subscribe rather than rent to own for the extra devices?

The early-bird discount. Also Friktion Mutator and Algorithm Cost far more combined, and at the time I thought 12 would bring more core sequencer improvements so I knew I’d be dropping more cash even then to upgrade. I’m OK with subs actually.

[Billy+]

You already had 11 suite that left Friktion Mutator and Algorithm, what made you subscribe rather than rent to own for the extra devices?

The early-bird discount. Also Friktion Mutator and Algorithm Cost far more combined, and at the time I thought 12 would bring more core sequencer improvements so I knew I’d be dropping more cash even then to upgrade. I’m OK with subs actually.

Ah ok, I'm ok with subs to solong as I can buy my license.

Subscription is a good way to get new users up to speed at a very cheap price €$£20 for what they get access to is very reasonable the model doesn't work for me and I wouldn't benefit from it at all as I have all the devices

I brought Mutator even though I still think it's rubbish but I will continue to use it in the hope that it starts to work for me...

[challism]

Ah ok, I'm ok with subs to solong as I can buy my license.

Subscription is a good way to get new users up to speed at a very cheap price €$£20 for what they get access to is very reasonable the model doesn't work for me and I wouldn't benefit from it at all as I have all the devices

Who are you and what did you do with the real Billy? Somebody please alert the authorities.

I brought Mutator even though I still think it's rubbish but I will continue to use it in the hope that it starts to work for me...

If it's rubbish, why did you buy it? LMAO
I find PatMut to be quite useful. I really like it.
Something I like to do is direct record it live and hit "mutate" every time the loop is about to finish. You can get some great stuff and some not-so-great stuff out of it. I, then, go back in the piano roll and cut the rubbish, change/keep the useable stuff.

[guitfnky]

Initially, the idea was to use the RRP as a bit of a safety net - I fully expected to use instances of the RRP all over the place, so that shifting away from Reason standalone would be easier. However, what's actually happened is that I've just found myself barely firing up the RRP - I'm just using VSTs instead. This made me realise that I've actually been pretty VST-heavy with my use of Reason over the past few years, so it's not really a big surprise that, instead of using the RRP, I'm just using other VST plug-ins in Cubase instead. Just to clarify: the availability of the RRP encouraged me to try Cubase, which made me realise that I'm actually ok with mostly not using the RRP in Cubase. It's a bit of an own-goal really, and I'm genuinely curious as to whether anyone else has experienced something similar.
...
For me, this has cemented in my mind that Reason is greater than the sum of its parts. I know there are people who love it for the rack specifically, but for me it's how the rack, mixer, and sequencer all interact and work together that make Reason my favourite musical space.
...
what I'm craving isn't new stuff, it's basic quality-of-life improvements. Less stuff, more refinement.

this is almost exactly my experience, but replace Cubase with Live, and make stock devices my main go-to (with a healthy dose of VST use also).

I really enjoy working in Live, because it's so much faster, but it's not quite as much fun as Reason. it's efficient.

several very basic quality of life updates to Reason would take it from being a fun DAW to a fun DAW that people don't sleep on for missing features. it wouldn't take much to make Reason efficient, and fast to work in. honestly, they could probably add most or all of my main feature requests over the course of a single version. they just need to decide that's important.

[Billy+]

Ah ok, I'm ok with subs to solong as I can buy my license.

Subscription is a good way to get new users up to speed at a very cheap price €$£20 for what they get access to is very reasonable the model doesn't work for me and I wouldn't benefit from it at all as I have all the devices

Who are you and what did you do with the real Billy? Somebody please alert the authorities.

I brought Mutator even though I still think it's rubbish but I will continue to use it in the hope that it starts to work for me...

If it's rubbish, why did you buy it? LMAO
I find PatMut to be quite useful. I really like it.
Something I like to do is direct record it live and hit "mutate" every time the loop is about to finish. You can get some great stuff and some not-so-great stuff out of it. I, then, go back in the piano roll and cut the rubbish, change/keep the useable stuff.

Ultimately I can't help myself, I just hope I get it to work for me (Mutator)

And even though this whole approach to long term users and missing features is a real blow I can agree that more people using Reason is a good thing even if they don't own the product who am I to pass judgment on the choices that individuals make and so long as RS always allow me to own my license what's it matter how new users get onboard.

Content packs being only for subscription does bother me, but I'm over it. (I think we should all get them) it would encourage other people who buy RE's to buy or rent the ones they don't own!

[challism]

Ultimately I can't help myself, I just hope I get it to work for me (Mutator)

And even though this whole approach to long term users and missing features is a real blow I can agree that more people using Reason is a good thing even if they don't own the product who am I to pass judgment on the choices that individuals make and so long as RS always allow me to own my license what's it matter how new users get onboard.

I completely agree. As long was we can always buy perpetual licenses, the subscribers can keep giving RS money for R&D.

As for PatMut, it's going to spit out a BUNCH of rubbish... that's just the nature of randomization. I find that I have to hit that mutate button a lot before I find something that's great, especially if any of the knobs are turned to mid or higher levels. That's why I like the direct record approach. But I will say that PatMut has come up with some really cool stuff that I never would have on my own. Shhhhhh, don't tell any or my millions of fans that little secret.

But, again, I have to ask... who are you and what did you do with the real Billy? Are you feeling OK? Not sounding yourself at all today. ha ha

[Billy+]

Ultimately I can't help myself, I just hope I get it to work for me (Mutator)

And even though this whole approach to long term users and missing features is a real blow I can agree that more people using Reason is a good thing even if they don't own the product who am I to pass judgment on the choices that individuals make and so long as RS always allow me to own my license what's it matter how new users get onboard.

I completely agree. As long was we can always buy perpetual licenses, the subscribers can keep giving RS money for R&D.

As for PatMut, it's going to spit out a BUNCH of rubbish... that's just the nature of randomization. I find that I have to hit that mutate button a lot before I find something that's great, especially if any of the knobs are turned to mid or higher levels. That's why I like the direct record approach. But I will say that PatMut has come up with some really cool stuff that I never would have on my own. Shhhhhh, don't tell any or my millions of fans that little secret.

But, again, I have to ask... who are you and what did you do with the real Billy? Are you feeling OK? Not sounding yourself at all today. ha ha

Maybe it's the extra sunshine

[elMisse]

Out of interest what do you find messy about the sequencer.

Every single automated device in the actual instruments chain gets it's own separate track. So when mixing a 20-track piece, you can easily end up with a constantly visible 100+ track hellhole in all rainbows colors. The sequencer should AT LEAST somehow show/group which devices are in same chain.

I think there are also some issues in naming things and how it translates between the mixer/rack/sequencer.

I might also just be a highly sensitive person.

[Billy+]

Out of interest what do you find messy about the sequencer.

Every single automated device in the actual instruments chain gets it's own separate track. So when mixing a 20-track piece, you can easily end up with a constantly visible 100+ track hellhole in all rainbows colors. The sequencer should AT LEAST somehow show/group which devices are in same chain.

I think there are also some issues in naming things and how it translates between the mixer/rack/sequencer.

I might also just be a highly sensitive person.

Actually you're not that sensitive, I find it a complete pain that you have to name things multiple times or remember to name in the sequencer rather than just once and yeah grouping tracks could definitely be done better (I put most devices into combinators as a make shift group) so I can fold them out the way hiding all the automation.

[plaamook]

Youre right. Ths equencer is EXTREMLY (LISTEN TO THIS THREAD, REASONSTUDIOS - PLEASE) behind and it is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY, that it gets an overhaul ASAP.
If you do comlex arrangements, its actual like a workflow-nightmare.

Can't somebody make a kind of reasontalk "petition", that get's postet on youtube and facebook?

I'd say we're way Waaaay past that, but go for it.
Start a 'Do you think the sequencer is the most important thing to address Yes/No' poll thread and see what happens.
Props read things here, they'll see it.

I don't really bother with YT or FB so I can't really say much about that.

[Lotuz2019]

I notice a lot of recent comments about having VST inside the RRP. While I'm sure VST3 support is on the way for R12, I doubt they'll ever have the ability to load VSTs inside the RRP. Seems kind of redundant when the DAW the RRP is running inside of can open VSTs on it's own. RS is clearly putting more focus towards the plugin end of things, so I don't see them going all "Inception" on the plugin itself.

RRP would become an awesome plugin chainer if it could load VST plugins too.

[Loque]

...

Curse you making the 1000th post

[freshkidblaze]

I notice a lot of recent comments about having VST inside the RRP. While I'm sure VST3 support is on the way for R12, I doubt they'll ever have the ability to load VSTs inside the RRP. Seems kind of redundant when the DAW the RRP is running inside of can open VSTs on it's own. RS is clearly putting more focus towards the plugin end of things, so I don't see them going all "Inception" on the plugin itself.

RRP would become an awesome plugin chainer if it could load VST plugins too.

Voltage Modular did it with the vst2/3 versions of their software.