Moving to Reaper from Reason

Want to talk about music hardware or software that doesn't include Reason?
EdGrip
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03 Jun 2021

(all DAWs sound the same)

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guitfnky
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03 Jun 2021

electricthing wrote:
02 Jun 2021
Nowadays when somebody expresses their preference for the sound of one Daw they are not that automatically attacked by the 'null gang' as it used to be.
that's because this is not a thing. the fact that you've gone so far as to coin a derisive term for people who use scientific methods to debunk such fictions is telling. it's an implicit acknowledgment that someone has gone to lengths to come up with a definitive, factual answer which you've then consciously decided to ignore, because, IDK, feelings? 🤷‍♂️
I write good music for good people

https://slowrobot.bandcamp.com/

Proboscis
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03 Jun 2021

EnochLight wrote:
25 May 2021

never felt compelled to actually buy a full license

(pro tip: you can use it for free forever, as the "free trial" nag screen is easy to wait out).
The nag screen that opens with the first sentence, in caps:

REAPER IS NOT FREE

Not sure how you are comfortable advocating piracy on a public forum, but I'm sure you'll have a well composed response in justification of ripping off a developer.

and is it a 'pro tip' ? Seems like a hack tip.
EnochLight wrote:
08 Mar 2021
And while they do sell perpetual licenses, you can keep using it forever for free if you just click past the nag screen. :thumbup:
The internet time machine noticed that you've supported this type of nefarious activity previously. At least you're consistent.

It's almost certain that in March, the nag screen also stated:

REAPER IS NOT FREE

EdGrip
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03 Jun 2021

I personally love the sarcastic tone of the "Still Evaluating" button, and the look Reaper gives me when I click it.

"Been evaluating for 1,788 days. But you're still evaluating, yeah? Still just getting a feel for it, aye mate?"

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EnochLight
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03 Jun 2021

Proboscis wrote:
03 Jun 2021
EnochLight wrote:
25 May 2021

never felt compelled to actually buy a full license

(pro tip: you can use it for free forever, as the "free trial" nag screen is easy to wait out).
The nag screen that opens with the first sentence, in caps:

REAPER IS NOT FREE

Not sure how you are comfortable advocating piracy on a public forum, but I'm sure you'll have a well composed response in justification of ripping off a developer.

and is it a 'pro tip' ? Seems like a hack tip.
EnochLight wrote:
08 Mar 2021
And while they do sell perpetual licenses, you can keep using it forever for free if you just click past the nag screen. :thumbup:
The internet time machine noticed that you've supported this type of nefarious activity previously. At least you're consistent.

It's almost certain that in March, the nag screen also stated:

REAPER IS NOT FREE
That’s adorable. Look, if Cockos wanted to, they’d lock it down very easily after a set “demo” period. They don’t. It can be used - forever - by simply clicking past the nag screen. Stop conflating piracy with what they are doing and what I clearly pointed out - which is common knowledge. If you have a problem, take it up with Cockos.
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jjrh
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03 Jun 2021

I think the point is Cockos doesn't take the extra step to lock you down because that's annoying, and futile. It's also recognition that folks might not spend all their time evaluating the second they install.

Everyone else requires you sign up, give your email away, etc only to give you a very restricted demo. It's a nice change when a company doesn't do that so I think if you find the software useful and use it frequently why not pay for it? The price is more than reasonable - even for hobbyist.

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orthodox
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03 Jun 2021

Use Cakewalk - it's free for real:

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sdst
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03 Jun 2021

EnochLight wrote:
08 Mar 2021
* raises hand * :lol:
I have never felt inspired in Reaper, not in the least - it's just a convoluted mess to me.
yes very convoluted, until you learn to use it. :lol:

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EnochLight
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03 Jun 2021

jjrh wrote:
03 Jun 2021
I think the point is Cockos doesn't take the extra step to lock you down because that's annoying, and futile. It's also recognition that folks might not spend all their time evaluating the second they install.
Or folks might spend their time actually pirating the software, which would be: cracking the protection protocol and sharing it on torrents, downloading and using said cracked software, or selling it cracked. I just wanted to be clear: clicking past a manufacture created nag screen indefinitely is NOT that. Proboscis and anyone else is welcome to disagree. :thumbup:
sdst wrote:
03 Jun 2021
yes very convoluted, until you learn to use it. :lol:
Admittedly, one can easily say that about Reason as well, apparently! :lol:
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jjrh
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03 Jun 2021

EnochLight wrote:
03 Jun 2021
Or folks might spend their time actually pirating the software, which would be: cracking the protection protocol and sharing it on torrents, downloading and using said cracked software, or selling it cracked. I just wanted to be clear: clicking past a manufacture created nag screen indefinitely is NOT that. Proboscis and anyone else is welcome to disagree. :thumbup:
If you actually use the software and like it, I think it's unfair and arguably unethical to just click by, but it's certainly not what I would personally call piracy.

sdst wrote:
03 Jun 2021
EnochLight wrote:
08 Mar 2021
* raises hand * :lol:
I have never felt inspired in Reaper, not in the least - it's just a convoluted mess to me.
yes very convoluted, until you learn to use it. :lol:
The thing that drives me nuts is while you can dock windows to the TCP you can't have a second window that lets you do that. So with two monitors i'm endlessly moving all the floating windows around. What I really want is a second window to put program stuff like the marker list, action list, media browser, etc. Ideally have tabs so I can easily switch between different views.

I was looking last night and there are hotkeys to make flipping between windows much faster but it's going to take some getting used to and i'm not sure it's really going to solve window positioning.

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jam-s
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03 Jun 2021

EnochLight wrote:
03 Jun 2021
jjrh wrote:
03 Jun 2021
I think the point is Cockos doesn't take the extra step to lock you down because that's annoying, and futile. It's also recognition that folks might not spend all their time evaluating the second they install.
Or folks might spend their time actually pirating the software, which would be: cracking the protection protocol and sharing it on torrents, downloading and using said cracked software, or selling it cracked. I just wanted to be clear: clicking past a manufacture created nag screen indefinitely is NOT that. Proboscis and anyone else is welcome to disagree. :thumbup:
Technically if you're using the software after the free trial period has expired you're using the software without a valid license and thus you are pirating it by definition.

sdst
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03 Jun 2021

jjrh wrote:
03 Jun 2021

The thing that drives me nuts is while you can dock windows to the TCP you can't have a second window that lets you do that. So with two monitors i'm endlessly moving all the floating windows around. What I really want is a second window to put program stuff like the marker list, action list, media browser, etc. Ideally have tabs so I can easily switch between different views.

I was looking last night and there are hotkeys to make flipping between windows much faster but it's going to take some getting used to and i'm not sure it's really going to solve window positioning.
I don't use two monitors

but check this,

you can save the position of everything and put shortcuts

Menu/ View/ Screensets/Layouts

EdGrip
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03 Jun 2021

I feel fine about clicking by because I only ever use Reaper as a 1-track YouTube-grabbing tape machine that loads up instantly. Having said that, I do intend to buy the license at some point because I like what they're doing.

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EnochLight
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03 Jun 2021

jam-s wrote:
03 Jun 2021
Technically if you're using the software after the free trial period has expired you're using the software without a valid license and thus you are pirating it by definition.
Counterpoint...

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jam-s
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03 Jun 2021

EnochLight wrote:
03 Jun 2021
jam-s wrote:
03 Jun 2021
Technically if you're using the software after the free trial period has expired you're using the software without a valid license and thus you are pirating it by definition.
Counterpoint...

Image
How about "NO!"?
Reaper EULA wrote:
END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT For REAPER®

IMPORTANT: This REAPER® ("Software") End User License Agreement ("EULA") is a legal agreement between you (either an individual or, if purchased for an entity, an entity) and Cockos Incorporated ("Cockos"). READ IT CAREFULLY BEFORE COMPLETING THE INSTALLATION PROCESS AND USING THIS SOFTWARE. It provides a license to use this software and contains warranty and liability disclaimers. BY DOWNLOADING OR INSTALLING THE SOFTWARE YOU ARE INDICATING YOUR FULL AND VOLUNTARY ASSENT TO THE TERMS OF THIS LICENSE. If you do not agree to all of the following terms, do not download or install the software or discontinue use immediately and destroy all copies on your computer.

1. License Grants and Purchase:
1.1 Trial Period License. You may download and use the Software for free for sixty (60) days after installation ("Trial Period"). During the Trial Period, Cockos grants you a limited, non-exclusive and non-transferable license to copy and use the Software for evaluation purposes only. The evaluation copy of the Software is fully functional.
1.2 License After Trial Period. If you continue to use this Software after the Trial Period, you are required to purchase a license. The license fee varies according to your use, as follows:
a) A commercial license currently is $225.00 USD.
b) The following users are granted permission to purchase a discounted license for $60 USD:
i) You are an individual, using REAPER® only for personal and non-commercial uses.
ii) You are either an individual or business, using REAPER® for a commercial purpose, and your annual gross revenue derived from commercial activity does not exceed $20,000 USD.
iii) You are an educational or other non-profit organization.
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avasopht
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03 Jun 2021

Reaper kinda sounds like the Linux of the DAWs

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guitfnky
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03 Jun 2021

I can’t believe there are people arguing that using paid software without paying for it isn’t piracy.

just because someone leaves the doors unlocked and their keys in the ignition doesn’t mean it’s not theft if you drive their car away—even if you put it back.
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EnochLight
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03 Jun 2021

jam-s wrote:
03 Jun 2021
How about "NO!"?
guitfnky wrote:
03 Jun 2021
just because someone leaves the doors unlocked and their keys in the ignition doesn’t mean it’s not theft if you drive their car away—even if you put it back.
It would be awesome if Cockos made cars their primary business. Maybe you're onto something?! :clap: :lol:
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Proboscis
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14 Jul 2021

EnochLight wrote:
03 Jun 2021
That’s adorable. Look, if Cockos wanted to, they’d lock it down very easily after a set “demo” period. They don’t. It can be used - forever - by simply clicking past the nag screen. Stop conflating piracy with what they are doing and what I clearly pointed out - which is common knowledge. If you have a problem, take it up with Cockos.
LOL, alright. If that's how you feel, then so be it. I'm not going to get into internet fisticuffs over your inaccurate interpretation of their EULA. Maybe it doesn't fit the definition of 'piracy', but it certainly is in violation of the Cockos T & C's

So spin it as you will. Honest with you, brother... my main gripe is that a moderator of a DAW forum would advocate such violations on the IP of another DAW, by repeatedly using the term 'free'. And exploiting their 'trust' model of a soft-trial expiration as a ticket to use the software perpetually.

To re-iterate:

Reaper is not free.

Can you at least make a statement acknowledging this ?

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mcatalao
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14 Jul 2021

Proboscis wrote:
14 Jul 2021
EnochLight wrote:
03 Jun 2021
That’s adorable. Look, if Cockos wanted to, they’d lock it down very easily after a set “demo” period. They don’t. It can be used - forever - by simply clicking past the nag screen. Stop conflating piracy with what they are doing and what I clearly pointed out - which is common knowledge. If you have a problem, take it up with Cockos.
LOL, alright. If that's how you feel, then so be it. I'm not going to get into internet fisticuffs over your inaccurate interpretation of their EULA. Maybe it doesn't fit the definition of 'piracy', but it certainly is in violation of the Cockos T & C's
(...)

I agree, but I to have it installed without a license for too long. I think I open it when I'm more infuriated with the slow pace of reason's development and try it once again, to finally get to the point where I just shut it down in even more frustration and go back to Reason!

Funny enough... I have amassed a whopping 9 hours usage in 3 years! I can't understand from the EULA if the limit is calendar days, or cumulative usage...

avasopht
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14 Jul 2021

mcatalao wrote:
14 Jul 2021
I agree, but I to have it installed without a license for too long. I think I open it when I'm more infuriated with the slow pace of reason's development and try it once again, to finally get to the point where I just shut it down in even more frustration and go back to Reason!

Funny enough... I have amassed a whopping 9 hours usage in 3 years! I can't understand from the EULA if the limit is calendar days, or cumulative usage...
I've no doubt someone will say you're the cause of the next economic crisis.

Here's a fun question for Proboscis: you install the Reaper trial and the clock starts ticking and then you close it.

3 days before it expires you just happen to need to reset your computer, after which you install Reaper again (but since it's a fresh installation the clock starts again).

It says you have 30 days. Does the time of the previous licence apply, making the evaluation license void in 3 days time, or do they get an extra 30 days?

Also consider the same scenario but instead of 3 days before, it's 20 years later?

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Creativemind
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14 Jul 2021

raymondh wrote:
07 Mar 2021
- Track templates. I use them to make it easy to use my hardware. e.g. I can drop in a Sirin-MIDI template that creates a track already with the correct MIDI interface and MIDI channel selected, and I can drop in a Sirin-Audio template that has a track automatically selecting the right audio interface inputs.
- The fantastic tutorials online Reaper Mania, Reaper Blog etc. Without these, I don't think I would have stuck to the software.
- The price.

I don't really like

- separate outputs creating lots of tracks in the arrange view. It gets messy. Track folders helps a lot and I think you can hide tracks, and there may be some workarounds.
Yes those Track Templates are brilliant. You can even save midi information in them. I have 2 drum ones set up. 1 with a RRP with a ReDrum added with a 909 kit on there and all the channels separated out to their own mixer channels and labelled accordingly (and in it's own folder) so just can just load it up on a track and voila and another is the Steven Slate free drum kit with about 10 bars of a 4 on the floor kick drum on it. I always used the latter for my guitar tracks and have a 4 on the floor kick drum ready to strum along to.

I agree with the tutorials you mention, they're fantastic. Only grumble with the Kenny Gioia ones though are, I wish hed put time stamp things in the video descriptions so if you're looking for a certain thing in a 6 minute video, you could skip straight to it.

Yes, the price is brilliant. Pay what you want with a minimum of $60 (£55-ish).

You may already know this too but yeah, you can hide tracks in Reaper.

My likes that Reason doesn't have yet are:-

Midi

Midi Chase, Note Displays, joining midi notes, remember last note length, chord painting, snapping note ends to grid (not just the start) and those diamond / triangular notes you can use for drums. Oh and that thing you can do where if you have 2 notes together with no gap (you can shorten the end of the first one while extending the start of the second one, also works on clips and notation view is very cool too.

Other

Track folders, slice by cursor (use this a lot), transient sensitivity, scrub, linked clips and automation and it's cool how you can have the automation under the items or within them, scan the VST folder while the daw is open and VST 3 support. I also love how you can automatically slice an audio item to remove silence with the Dynamic Split menu, Manual parameter inputs with copy / paste, undo history, track notes, autosave, Video Support and how customisable it is in every aspect. Also how you can save FX chains, add effects to individual items (clips) and how newly installed VST's have their own section so you can quickly navigate to them.

The actions are amazing too, there's literally one for anything. I found one that will let you swap 2 clips over (switch places) in the arranger and assigned it to a shortcut and found one that will allow you to left click the mouse once to add a note in the midi editor but sadly not one to right click once to delete. I saw on a video once how this guy had set it up so that when he labelled a track, "Vocal" it automatically coloured the track to the colour he liked his vocal tracks to be.

Browser - the fact you can tempo match samples and do double speed or half speed (and it's double or half the speed the actual sample speed, not the project speed), reverse auditioning, audio wave display of samples that you can trigger / loop from anywhere easily, that you can route the media browser to a track to audition with effects, pitch shift samples + or - 12 semitones, midi auditioning (it will audition the midi with the sound of whatever track you have selected in the arranger), reverse auditioning and I love the fact it will put a dot next to the samples in a folder that you've already auditioned so you know which ones you've already auditioned.

My only grumble is the in built themes are crap but the Logic 3.80 (3.85 is the latest) which I use is superb, the fact the devices in it have no gui and there's no built in sounds. These things let it down.

If they fixed those above and added these 10 things:-

1) Chord / Key Display in Arranger
2) Retrospective Recording
3) Improved the track notes (graphically)
4) Improved Notes (graphically)
5) Improved Undo history window (graphically with the ability to search and colour code undo types and Split into categories such as mixer, vst, arranger etc)
6) Right click mouse actions / options
7) Fit To Tempo for audio like FL Studio has
8) Project Picker Screen with Project Properties (one with cascading thumbnails you can scroll through projects with with the middle mouse wheel and also add your own jpg / png pictures to your project thumbnails.
9) A really nice VST window with thumbnails like Reason has
10) Gave it a new theme which was just the ducks nuts of themes

With gui on their devices, a really great Subtractive, Additive, Wavetable, FM, Granular and Physical Modelling synths with loads of decent presets and those 10 features above, it'd undoubtedly (in my opinion) blow all other daws out the water.

It's literally got 80 features more than Reason. Reason may be there in terms of functionality by say Reason 15 lol!
Last edited by Creativemind on 14 Jul 2021, edited 7 times in total.
:reason:

Reason Studio's 11.3 / Cockos Reaper 6.82 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Orion 8.6
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3

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EnochLight
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14 Jul 2021

Proboscis wrote:
14 Jul 2021
Honest with you, brother... my main gripe is that a moderator of a DAW forum would advocate such violations on the IP of another DAW, by repeatedly using the term 'free'. And exploiting their 'trust' model of a soft-trial expiration as a ticket to use the software perpetually.
It's common for people to think that moderators are somehow held to such a high regard that we aren't allowed opinions or able to take perspectives that are largely in opposition to what forum members expect. No offense friend, but people need to get over that. We're here to moderate the forum and try to keep people civil and obey the forum rules, and that's pretty much it. At the end of the day, we're users - just like you and most everyone else here.

Some of us are complete assholes (I mean, not my contemporaries at Reasontalk, but elsewhere on the web? Sure! :lol: ), and I'll be the first to raise my hand and admit that I can be an ornery son of a beeyotch that often spends too much time saying stupid shit. :lol: For that, I will absolutely apologize, as it does *NOT* reflect the views of Reasontalk nor my contemporaries here who moderate. These are expressly my views, and my views alone.

So I'll reiterate: it's not piracy as far as I am concerned. If Cockos wants people to actually buy their software en-masse, then they shouldn't offer a trial period that is easily made "perpetual", and free, forever, without cracking the software and sharing it on torrents or elsewhere (which is 100% software piracy). It's cool you don't agree with me. It's cool the majority of people may not agree with me. Like I said, I'm an asshole. :thumbup:
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

avasopht
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14 Jul 2021

At $60 (discounted license) Reaper is practically free 👌

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Creativemind
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14 Jul 2021

avasopht wrote:
14 Jul 2021
At $60 (discounted license) Reaper is practically free 👌

Practically or nearly is not free though lol!
:reason:

Reason Studio's 11.3 / Cockos Reaper 6.82 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Orion 8.6
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3

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