Would you buy Thor as a VST?

[svenh]

There's quotes from RS staff saying both R12 and the Hd update are on the way sometime this year. I can't remember the specifics but that's the gist of it.

I don't think they have ever specifically linked the two things so it is possible (but unlikely) that HD will be a point release of R11. I guess it's also possible that HD won't be ready in time for the R12 release and will follow along later but, yes, the most likely is that it will be a headline feature of R12 "later this year". I'm going to be sad if the biggest new thing in R12 is HD graphics.

Sounds interesting, thanks for the info zoidkirb and DaveyG!

[zoidkirb]

There's quotes from RS staff saying both R12 and the Hd update are on the way sometime this year. I can't remember the specifics but that's the gist of it.

I don't think they have ever specifically linked the two things so it is possible (but unlikely) that HD will be a point release of R11. I guess it's also possible that HD won't be ready in time for the R12 release and will follow along later but, yes, the most likely is that it will be a headline feature of R12 "later this year". I'm going to be sad if the biggest new thing in R12 is HD graphics.

I found the quote I was thinking of:

https://www.reasonstudios.com/blog/what ... for-reason

So read in to that what you will.
You may be disappointed, but then, are the majority ever happy with new Reason versions? Not from what I've seen TBH.

I for one will be happy I think but that's because I'm coming up from 10.4 I'll be jumping 2 whole versions at once.

[Jackjackdaw]

I have that issue with a number of vst devices I've trailed in Reason and I hope R12 brings a lot more than better graphics for the plugin else it won't be on my purchase list, I will just switch DAW's

Yes, a lot of VST's are small too. The Steinberg instruments are a particular annoyance to me for example.

Have you updated your Steinberg instruments to the latest versions? When I updated to Cubase 11 and started using HiDPI mode, all the S.berg instruments were tiny until I updated them. The download manager doesn't make it very obvious if updates are available.

[DaveyG]

I don't think they have ever specifically linked the two things so it is possible (but unlikely) that HD will be a point release of R11. I guess it's also possible that HD won't be ready in time for the R12 release and will follow along later but, yes, the most likely is that it will be a headline feature of R12 "later this year". I'm going to be sad if the biggest new thing in R12 is HD graphics.

I found the quote I was thinking of:

https://www.reasonstudios.com/blog/what ... for-reason

So read in to that what you will.
You may be disappointed, but then, are the majority ever happy with new Reason versions? Not from what I've seen TBH.

I for one will be happy I think but that's because I'm coming up from 10.4 I'll be jumping 2 whole versions at once.

I stand corrected. I had not seen that blog and it is plainly stated in there: "In fact, we're currently working hard on the next big Reason upgrade for release later this year which will include the mythical hi-res update and many other really exciting features". And don't misunderstand me. I do really want HD. I just don't want it to be the main feature of the new release. I want it to be the 4th or 5th bullet point and utterly eclipsed by other new stuff!

[svenh]

I don't think they have ever specifically linked the two things so it is possible (but unlikely) that HD will be a point release of R11. I guess it's also possible that HD won't be ready in time for the R12 release and will follow along later but, yes, the most likely is that it will be a headline feature of R12 "later this year". I'm going to be sad if the biggest new thing in R12 is HD graphics.

I found the quote I was thinking of:

https://www.reasonstudios.com/blog/what ... for-reason

So read in to that what you will.
You may be disappointed, but then, are the majority ever happy with new Reason versions? Not from what I've seen TBH.

I for one will be happy I think but that's because I'm coming up from 10.4 I'll be jumping 2 whole versions at once.

That was very interesting to read, I will definitely chekout the release later this year!

Thanks for the link!

[zoidkirb]

Yes, a lot of VST's are small too. The Steinberg instruments are a particular annoyance to me for example.

Have you updated your Steinberg instruments to the latest versions? When I updated to Cubase 11 and started using HiDPI mode, all the S.berg instruments were tiny until I updated them. The download manager doesn't make it very obvious if updates are available.

Not updated them this year. They run fine in Cubase, maybe a little fiddly but at least I can expand their outer Windows. But for whatever reason, in Reason and Live the aspect ratio is locked.

[svenh]

I don't think they have ever specifically linked the two things so it is possible (but unlikely) that HD will be a point release of R11. I guess it's also possible that HD won't be ready in time for the R12 release and will follow along later but, yes, the most likely is that it will be a headline feature of R12 "later this year". I'm going to be sad if the biggest new thing in R12 is HD graphics.

I found the quote I was thinking of:

https://www.reasonstudios.com/blog/what ... for-reason

So read in to that what you will.
You may be disappointed, but then, are the majority ever happy with new Reason versions? Not from what I've seen TBH.

I for one will be happy I think but that's because I'm coming up from 10.4 I'll be jumping 2 whole versions at once.

That was very interesting to read, I will definitely chekout the release later this year!

Thanks for the link!

[challism]

Thor and every device in the Reason rack are already VSTs (of sorts) via the RRP. They are essentially VST3s, just wrapped up in a neat Reason rack.

[DaveyG]

Thor and every device in the Reason rack are already VSTs (of sorts) via the RRP. They are essentially VST3s, just wrapped up in a neat Reason rack.

That's uttter nonsense mate. The VST is pretty much the whole Reason program running like it always did. And the RRP rack would be a whole lot neater if I could resize it to get rid of the large black void when there are only one or two devices in it.

[challism]

Thor and every device in the Reason rack are already VSTs (of sorts) via the RRP. They are essentially VST3s, just wrapped up in a neat Reason rack.

That's uttter nonsense mate. The VST is pretty much the whole Reason program running like it always did. And the RRP rack would be a whole lot neater if I could resize it to get rid of the large black void when there are only one or two devices in it.

Hence the inclusion of the words "of sorts" and "essentially" in my post. It requires a bit of optimism and imagination to see what I'm saying, and not get hung up in the semantics. So is the glass half empty or half full?

And the RRP is a VST3, so I'm not sure how this is "utter nonsense."

[DaveyG]

That's uttter nonsense mate. The VST is pretty much the whole Reason program running like it always did. And the RRP rack would be a whole lot neater if I could resize it to get rid of the large black void when there are only one or two devices in it.

Hence the inclusion of the words "of sorts" and "essentially" in my post. It requires a bit of optimism and imagination to see what I'm saying, and not get hung up in the semantics. So is the glass half empty or half full?

And the RRP is a VST3, so I'm not sure how this is "utter nonsense."

It's like claiming that Reason is a Linux program because it can sort of run on Wine. We've already established that you can run many instances of RRP each with one RE in it but it is not reasonable to claim that "Thor and every device in the Reason rack are already VSTs", even if you add "of sorts". I can speak fluent French. of sorts, as long as I have an interpreter with me.

Seriously, take off your rose-tinted spectacles.

[challism]

Hence the inclusion of the words "of sorts" and "essentially" in my post. It requires a bit of optimism and imagination to see what I'm saying, and not get hung up in the semantics. So is the glass half empty or half full?

And the RRP is a VST3, so I'm not sure how this is "utter nonsense."

It's like claiming that Reason is a Linux program because it can sort of run on Wine. We've already established that you can run many instances of RRP each with one RE in it but it is not reasonable to claim that "Thor and every device in the Reason rack are already VSTs", even if you add "of sorts". I can speak fluent French. of sorts, as long as I have an interpreter with me.

Seriously, take off your rose-tinted spectacles.

Except, RRP doesn't "sort of" run; IT DOES RUN. And it installs, and is loaded into other DAWs, as a VST. It is a VST plugin, like it or not.

I'm not interested in a back and forth dialog with you, Davey. We can disagree, that's fine. I probably won't respond to your next comment, so you can go ahead and have the last word.

Capture.JPG

[QVprod]

There may be a nice work around for this. I can do it in studio one, not sure about Ableton. Load Thor in the Reason Rack Plugin and then save that as a preset (within the DAW not Reason). I think in Ableton you can do that as an instrument rack. That eliminates you having to drag Thor into the rack each time.

No need for instrument rack, you can just save the plug-in instance as a preset in live.

Even better!

[raymondh]

I thought that the plugin was that, a vst.

Reason 11 comes with a vst plugin

Well, yeah, obviously. But that's not the same as having each synth, player and effect as a separate VST. I quite often have 5 or 6 instances of the Reason plugin in a project with each instance containing just one item, usually a player or a synth. It works fine and the CPU usage is OK but it's just not ideal from a screen usage viewpoint, especially as you can't resize the rack to make it smaller. Well, you can but it pings back to the original size.

I still think RS could make some easy money if they sold more stuff as VST too, but the fact that they tried it with Europa might say otherwise.

I agree. Or they found some way to expose Reason devices as VSTs even if they have to open up in the RRP.

I created a post in the feature request forum for this.

In terms of Thor as a VST, I haven't yet found a desire to create a RRP track just to open a Thor. Not a go-to synth for me. What I do reach for all the time is a Synapse Antidote - which has IMO struck the perfect balance of accessibility/ease of programming + fantastic sound. I reach for it more than my expensive Dune 3 VST!

[Jackjackdaw]

I would probably have preferred flagship Reason devices available as seperate VSTs (and free to Reason and Re owners obvs) than the RRP. The RRP introduces certain expectations that so far RS have failed to deliver on.


I don't think Thor alone could stand up against the newer VST beasts such as Dune 3 , Pigments etc.

[mcatalao]

IMO, if you want reason devices as vst's you don't get the modular and hybrid approach of reason, plus the combinator, plus routing, plus modulation, and so on.

10 years ago I had songs with sound as good as today because I got a lot of refills where the devs explored the full potential of the combinator and reason's devices, audio and CV routing. Thor might sound dull and seem limited against Dune and other Synths, but put it inside a combi, use it as source for something "bigger" and pass it through reverb, delay, distortion and comp, modulate it to it's tears with external cv's, arpeggiate it, and you can see how each and every single reason device can be used as a building block of something with way lots of potential than Dune, or whatever synth you can remember of.

That's why RRP exists, because you can bring this limitless "modularity" to your favorite daw. That's why the RRP has much more value than havving Thor, or any other reason device as a VST.

[svenh]

Thanks to all who participated in the Poll and for the discussion too that gave me a bit more information.

I guess the short summary would be that there are no plans to release any Reason plugins as VSTs and there is probably no commersial reason to do it with Thor anyway, but I will remember to watch the announcement of R12 later this year!

[SebAudio]

IMO, if you want reason devices as vst's you don't get the modular and hybrid approach of reason, plus the combinator, plus routing, plus modulation, and so on.

10 years ago I had songs with sound as good as today because I got a lot of refills where the devs explored the full potential of the combinator and reason's devices, audio and CV routing. Thor might sound dull and seem limited against Dune and other Synths, but put it inside a combi, use it as source for something "bigger" and pass it through reverb, delay, distortion and comp, modulate it to it's tears with external cv's, arpeggiate it, and you can see how each and every single reason device can be used as a building block of something with way lots of potential than Dune, or whatever synth you can remember of.

That's why RRP exists, because you can bring this limitless "modularity" to your favorite daw. That's why the RRP has much more value than havving Thor, or any other reason device as a VST.

I agree and enjoy the up-scaling of Reason synths when put inside a combinator. But I think that most people prefer great sounding synths on their own. That’s why Repro are venerated rather than any native RS or RE synth inside a combinator.

[utdgrant]

Thor is my single fave synth of all time. This includes hardware (analogue, digital, hybrid or VA) and software. Thor is always my go-to for sound design, unless I want a unique feature of something like the Minimoog, where I'll use the Arturia Mini V instead.

I would definitely be interested in running Thor as a VST under different DAW environments without having to go via RRP. I would pay extra for the convenience of missing out that one step, but not more than say 20 Euros.

[demt]

Yes

[kuhliloach]

While I voted No there is a possibility. If the price were right (say about $10) and it included a vast collection of amazing presets the value would be hard to resist.

[zoidkirb]

At $10 or $20 for Thor VST they would make an absolute killing.
Won't happen though, as it would devalue the overall value of the platform.

[DJMaytag]

Seeing as they discontinued the Europa VST after the release of the RRP, I don't see them releasing another synth (and one that is older) as a VST. As mentioned, a graphics update would probably solve the need for zooming.

I wonder how much of Europa VST was a test to see what sort of interest there was in using Reason devices in other DAW's? Removing it from the marketplace was definitely a move to encourage people (who didn't scoop the Europa VST) to use it and other Reason devices as a RRP.