For Those of Us Not Impressed with Algoritm, I'd Like To Remind You of FM8

Discuss VST stuff here!
User avatar
hurricane
Competition Winner
Posts: 1722
Joined: 14 Oct 2017

28 Feb 2021

Yeah well, what have ya'll got to show for it besides just playing presets and making fart noises with it? I mean, whatever - those are just my personal thoughts about Algoritm. It's a very average FM synth when compared to the current FM VSTs like FM8, Blue II, DX7 V, etc. and it already appears that F.'em is going to smoke it. You don't have to get all touchy about it!
Soundcloud | Youtube
Logic Pro | Bitwig

User avatar
Gothi
Posts: 78
Joined: 27 Jan 2021
Location: Denmark
Contact:

28 Feb 2021

Algoritm is a fine synth imo, which sticks to the Reason standard. However, for digital flavors, Parsec is a synth that impresses me and is in use all the time. My PX7 with a little effect chain work does the job too. The coolest part about Reason synths is the fact that they are a very easy to chain and combinate if you do not think they can stand alone. Modular magic. For now, Algoritm is priced as usual. Getting people to enter Reason+ may likely postpone any price reduction. I will get tempted at a sale for sure, but this time Spire RE was a better offer to me. FM8 is not for me. Unfortunately, I do not click with NI at all. I have lost some great options for decades, but also saved some money and GAS seizures.

sdst
Competition Winner
Posts: 896
Joined: 14 Jun 2015

28 Feb 2021

I haven't tried Algoritm

but the one I use is ES400 FM Synthesizer

is the most efficient FM synth REs. barely use cpu

and i love synth that are good with cpu

User avatar
demt
Posts: 1357
Joined: 16 Sep 2016
Contact:

28 Feb 2021

Its available in reason and is of reasons high standereds beats the hell out of go fetch "superior" fm synth or any other synth.It fits reasons workflow as does all reasons synths more than a bunch of disparate vsts ever will.Its part of reason!!!!
Reason 12 ,gear4 music sdp3 stage piano .nektar gxp 88,behringer umc1800 .line6 spider4 30
hear scince reason 2.5

User avatar
MannequinRaces
Posts: 1543
Joined: 18 Jan 2015

28 Feb 2021

hurricane wrote:
28 Feb 2021
Yeah well, what have ya'll got to show for it besides just playing presets and making fart noises with it? I mean, whatever - those are just my personal thoughts about Algoritm. It's a very average FM synth when compared to the current FM VSTs like FM8, Blue II, DX7 V, etc. and it already appears that F.'em is going to smoke it. You don't have to get all touchy about it!
I’m just giving you a hard time. You’re coming off as someone who has an elitist attitude, that’s all. :) Thanks for posting your opinion. Can you post the track you made with it?

User avatar
miscend
Posts: 1955
Joined: 09 Feb 2015

28 Feb 2021

hurricane wrote:
27 Feb 2021
This is great - it's the year of FM synths. XILS is set to release KaoX soon, supposed to be based on the GS1: https://www.xils-lab.com/audiosample/Ka ... railer.mp4

After spending way too much time with Algoritm, I've come to the conclusion that Algoritm is like a really dumb hot girl. As soon as you see it you're immediately blown away, fall head over heels in love, and think it's the hottest girl ever, but then you start spending some serious time with it and you realize there is no substance there.. It's just way too simple. I'm looking forward to F.'em and KaoX and still completely in love with FM8.
Hey, these days you really had it with RS. They can do nothing right.

Algoritm is what it is. I don't think we were ever going to get a complicated FM super powerhouse synth from RS, leave that to Blamsoft and their Zero RE. Some synths may not have every single bell and whistle but still be inspiring to use and sound great. FM synthesis is often seen as very intimidating to newbies, I think with Algoritm the idea was to make something accessible but still have depth. Gforce just released a new Oberheim synth for £149.99 and it has a simple straightforward architecture that's not doing anything never seen before too.

User avatar
hurricane
Competition Winner
Posts: 1722
Joined: 14 Oct 2017

28 Feb 2021

miscend wrote:
28 Feb 2021

Hey, these days you really had it with RS. They can do nothing right.
Lol, just ME?
Soundcloud | Youtube
Logic Pro | Bitwig

User avatar
hurricane
Competition Winner
Posts: 1722
Joined: 14 Oct 2017

28 Feb 2021

MannequinRaces wrote:
28 Feb 2021
hurricane wrote:
28 Feb 2021
Yeah well, what have ya'll got to show for it besides just playing presets and making fart noises with it? I mean, whatever - those are just my personal thoughts about Algoritm. It's a very average FM synth when compared to the current FM VSTs like FM8, Blue II, DX7 V, etc. and it already appears that F.'em is going to smoke it. You don't have to get all touchy about it!
I’m just giving you a hard time. You’re coming off as someone who has an elitist attitude, that’s all. :) Thanks for posting your opinion. Can you post the track you made with it?
Not the whole thing because I'm going to replace Algoritm with other synths (Spire and FM8 mostly) , but here's a preview. There are like 7 Algoritms in this, but the bass, drums, and guitar are other instruments. I couldn't make a bass to fit this track with Algoritm, however I wouldn't use an FM synth for this kind of bass.

Please excuse the very rough mix. I haven't even attempted mixing it yet so some things are a little unbalanced and I didn't even bother with automation because I'm just going to replace Algoritm.

It's called "Plymouth Fury".

Soundcloud | Youtube
Logic Pro | Bitwig

gbuck
Posts: 106
Joined: 21 May 2017

28 Feb 2021

hurricane wrote:
28 Feb 2021
MannequinRaces wrote:
28 Feb 2021

I’m just giving you a hard time. You’re coming off as someone who has an elitist attitude, that’s all. :) Thanks for posting your opinion. Can you post the track you made with it?
Not the whole thing because I'm going to replace Algoritm with other synths (Spire and FM8 mostly) , but here's a preview. There are like 7 Algoritms in this, but the bass, drums, and guitar are other instruments. I couldn't make a bass to fit this track with Algoritm, however I wouldn't use an FM synth for this kind of bass.

Please excuse the very rough mix. I haven't even attempted mixing it yet so some things are a little unbalanced and I didn't even bother with automation because I'm just going to replace Algoritm.

It's called "Plymouth Fury".

I like it. Hopefully we can listen to the replacement for a comparison.

User avatar
MannequinRaces
Posts: 1543
Joined: 18 Jan 2015

28 Feb 2021

hurricane wrote:
28 Feb 2021
MannequinRaces wrote:
28 Feb 2021

I’m just giving you a hard time. You’re coming off as someone who has an elitist attitude, that’s all. :) Thanks for posting your opinion. Can you post the track you made with it?
Not the whole thing because I'm going to replace Algoritm with other synths (Spire and FM8 mostly) , but here's a preview. There are like 7 Algoritms in this, but the bass, drums, and guitar are other instruments. I couldn't make a bass to fit this track with Algoritm, however I wouldn't use an FM synth for this kind of bass.

Please excuse the very rough mix. I haven't even attempted mixing it yet so some things are a little unbalanced and I didn't even bother with automation because I'm just going to replace Algoritm.

It's called "Plymouth Fury".

Very nice! Great vibe and feel. Thanks for sharing. Too bad you feel like you have to replace the Algoritms in this song. I agree that a comparison would be interesting if / when you get around to it.

User avatar
hurricane
Competition Winner
Posts: 1722
Joined: 14 Oct 2017

28 Feb 2021

MannequinRaces wrote:
28 Feb 2021
Too bad you feel like you have to replace the Algoritms in this song. I agree that a comparison would be interesting if / when you get around to it.
I'm not buying Algoritm so it needs to be replaced. I'll post the full track eventually, however I'm not going to go through the trouble of finishing the Algoritm version, so there won't be a one-to-one comparison.
Soundcloud | Youtube
Logic Pro | Bitwig

User avatar
MannequinRaces
Posts: 1543
Joined: 18 Jan 2015

28 Feb 2021

hurricane wrote:
28 Feb 2021
MannequinRaces wrote:
28 Feb 2021
Too bad you feel like you have to replace the Algoritms in this song. I agree that a comparison would be interesting if / when you get around to it.
I'm not buying Algoritm so it needs to be replaced. I'll post the full track eventually, however I'm not going to go through the trouble of finishing the Algoritm version, so there won't be a one-to-one comparison.
You could bounce the tracks to audio... :) Your track has tons of potential as is. Just sayin that maybe you don’t need to switch things out.

User avatar
hurricane
Competition Winner
Posts: 1722
Joined: 14 Oct 2017

28 Feb 2021

MannequinRaces wrote:
28 Feb 2021

You could bounce the tracks to audio... :) Your track has tons of potential as is. Just sayin that maybe you don’t need to switch things out.
Yeah, I know, I just don't want to do that. It'll just be a hassle later on. I have it sounding similar (and better, in my opinion) already so it's going to be fine.
Soundcloud | Youtube
Logic Pro | Bitwig

User avatar
challism
Moderator
Posts: 4642
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: Fanboy Shill, Boomertown

28 Feb 2021

ha ha, the title of this post "for those of us" should be changed... the subject (us) doesn't seem worthy of being plural. I think the vast majority are loving Algoritm.

Suggested title change: hurricane vs the world!

Nice sounding track you made, btw
Players are to MIDI what synthesizers are to waveforms.

ReasonTalk Rules and Guidelines

User avatar
raymondh
Posts: 1776
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

01 Mar 2021

hurricane wrote:
28 Feb 2021
MannequinRaces wrote:
28 Feb 2021

You could bounce the tracks to audio... :) Your track has tons of potential as is. Just sayin that maybe you don’t need to switch things out.
Yeah, I know, I just don't want to do that. It'll just be a hassle later on. I have it sounding similar (and better, in my opinion) already so it's going to be fine.
Is that you playing the guitar line? It's awesome.

VariableX
Posts: 564
Joined: 02 Apr 2018

01 Mar 2021

fm4 rocks 😀

User avatar
hurricane
Competition Winner
Posts: 1722
Joined: 14 Oct 2017

01 Mar 2021

raymondh wrote:
01 Mar 2021
hurricane wrote:
28 Feb 2021


Yeah, I know, I just don't want to do that. It'll just be a hassle later on. I have it sounding similar (and better, in my opinion) already so it's going to be fine.
Is that you playing the guitar line? It's awesome.
Yeah, thanks - I'm just playing it on my keyboard.
Soundcloud | Youtube
Logic Pro | Bitwig

User avatar
raymondh
Posts: 1776
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

01 Mar 2021

hurricane wrote:
01 Mar 2021
raymondh wrote:
01 Mar 2021


Is that you playing the guitar line? It's awesome.
Yeah, thanks - I'm just playing it on my keyboard.
Well that's even more awesome! Really impressed. I tried to make a guitar-like synth on a recent track (Edge of The System) but it's nowhere near as successful as what you've done here. Love it!

User avatar
TheGodOfRainbows
Posts: 640
Joined: 31 Mar 2015

01 Mar 2021

raymondh wrote:
01 Mar 2021
hurricane wrote:
01 Mar 2021


Yeah, thanks - I'm just playing it on my keyboard.
Well that's even more awesome! Really impressed. I tried to make a guitar-like synth on a recent track (Edge of The System) but it's nowhere near as successful as what you've done here. Love it!
I love it when the solo comes in! Hot track!

User avatar
TritoneAddiction
Competition Winner
Posts: 4219
Joined: 29 Aug 2015
Location: Sweden

01 Mar 2021

fretshot7 wrote:
01 Mar 2021
fm4 rocks 😀
Yes. It sure does. Easily one of my favorite synths ever. Personally I don't care if a synth has every single option known to mankind. That has never been a reason why I like an instrument. Do I like working with it? Does it inspire me to create music? That's all I care about. I will give Algoritm more time to see what I think about it. I already like it, I know that much. But I certainly won't abandon FM4 just because Algoritm is a deeper synth. I'm sure both has their strenghts.
I do think RS striked a perfect balance between depth/lots of options and ease of use. And it looks inviting to play with.

Can't comment on FM8 (haven't tried it) except that it looks very boring and uninspiring visually, which matters (to me). I'm sure it's an awesome synth in many other regards though.

EdGrip
Posts: 2343
Joined: 03 Jun 2016

01 Mar 2021

If you gave two people the brief, "Design a matrix for an FM synth so that any operator can be routed to modulate any other", frankly I'd be surprised if they weren't the same.

Which is why it's slightly surprising that Algoritm and FM8 are quite different. FM8 goes for the diagonal bus timetable format, Algoritm goes for a node-based/virtual free cabling thing.

To call one "inspired by" the other doesn't really work; to say it's "copied from" is nuts.

User avatar
turn2on
RE Developer
Posts: 781
Joined: 13 Mar 2015
Contact:

01 Mar 2021

FM synths only in theory the same. Many paramaeters is original.
PX7 and many other synths - was been created in a near way ot original DX7. But FM synthesis in years going deeper.

Good to know that synth have something special. Zero - very interesting FM synth, another FM synths from RE shop too.
When we cretae our WTFM - yes its also FM synth, not wavetable at all (it also use sine operators with various sine wavefroms from pure sine to rectified sine and more variations). If you try Algorithm now, you know that Wavetables in FM can be very usable.

WTFM include up to 450+ wavetables with pure morphed waveforms. Its other side look at the FM synthesis.
WTFM in some parts inspired by Korg OpSix, that have into operators various waveforms with width activity (non static waveform). And also include modes as RM/ FilterFM and other. So we inspired in this and create powerful Operators FM synth. When the base of the operators - rich collection of the morphed waveforms (so like a chebyshev filter sine activity as example, and many more). Its not just a complex waveforms, its active wavefroms, that help to use in operators also phrase waves. Deep morphing (that also include many hardware units as sources) into FM engine.

What I try to say. FM is a myth, many people think nowadays that is only Sine-waveform original FM theory synthesis. Not at all. Freedom of operators? Absolutely - how much device have Operators, they all limited to max routing variants in anty way. So WTFM algos limited for 4 OP in 24 Algorithms as example. 6Op DX7 limited to 32. Another question - how inteface show this.

Finaly, talking about what FM synth to select - is like to talk what analog/va synth to select. This is a big range of selection.
Musicinas can have in old days one main FM synth - DX7/TX81X/FS1R/DX200 and any other but prefer one. Modern FM synths can more and more.
Whay havyng 2-3 analog mono/poly synths, we serch something more like addition to the Moogs - ARPs and Prophets? They all different.
Modern FM synths can havce enough to make something more from only SIne-operators as basis. Its easy to use various FM synths today. Try and select from what they can do and how they can sound. :thumbup:

User avatar
hurricane
Competition Winner
Posts: 1722
Joined: 14 Oct 2017

01 Mar 2021

raymondh wrote:
01 Mar 2021
Well that's even more awesome! Really impressed. I tried to make a guitar-like synth on a recent track (Edge of The System) but it's nowhere near as successful as what you've done here. Love it!
So I think that might be your issue - when I try to make a synth into a guitar, no matter how much I mess with it, it always sounds like a synth. I'm using a Kontakt guitar (I forgot which one I used on this track) and I used several of its articulations, then I ran it either through Amplitube 5 or some random guitar amps and cabinets. I spent soooo many hours trying to get the sound right, and I'm still not there. And I'm sure that my part sounds pretty fake to a real guitarist. If you really want to know the details I can show you exactly how I do it in a DM. Let me know.

TritoneAddiction wrote:
01 Mar 2021
Can't comment on FM8 (haven't tried it) except that it looks very boring and uninspiring visually, which matters (to me). I'm sure it's an awesome synth in many other regards though.
I actually like FM8's look, although I prefer the old FM7 gui. It needs an update for sure - everything is so small and cramped. I didn't click with FM8 when I first got it. It's a very deep synth, and it seemed overwhelming to me at first. But I learned it, and now it's my favorite.

The immediate reason people click with Algoritm is that it looks good and it's VERY simple. It's an impulsive reaction by a neglected RE audience - the exhuberant enthusiasm...the immediate "omg this is Reason Studios' best synth ever!" proclamations. Algoritm makes FM synthesis very accessible because it is a very bare-bones FM synth. Again, nothing wrong with that, but those of us used to more robust FM synths (yes, like FM8), to us, Algoritm is underwhelming (challism, I am sure there are plenty of people like me - probably not on this forum though lol). I mean, look at it - the only real "new" synth parts on Algoritm are the Operator section and the Matrix grid. Everything else came directly from Europa - the unison section, the mod matrix, the effects section, the LFO section! The one thing they didn't copy is the one thing they should have included on Algoritm, and that's Europa's envelopes!

Algoritm is a superficial rush-job of a synth. It's consistent with Reason Studios' philosophy over the last few years - that is, put the least amount of time, money, and effort into something and let marketing do its thing.
Soundcloud | Youtube
Logic Pro | Bitwig

User avatar
SebAudio
Posts: 362
Joined: 08 Mar 2015
Contact:

01 Mar 2021

hurricane wrote:
01 Mar 2021
Algoritm is a superficial rush-job of a synth. It's consistent with Reason Studios' philosophy over the last few years - that is, put the least amount of time, money, and effort into something and let marketing do its thing.
I think they spend a lot of time having hi-res brushed aluminium panels ! Those existed in the last century when screen resolutions were, well, the one Reason still uses 20 years later !
Algo is the best synth ever made by RS but those brushed aluminum panels just ruin it !

User avatar
dvdrtldg
Posts: 2386
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

01 Mar 2021

Auryn wrote:
27 Feb 2021
Ahornberg wrote:
27 Feb 2021
There's also Zero by Blamsoft:

https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... nthesizer/

Seconded. Algoritm is nice but Zero is king
What would you say are the advantages of Zero over Algoritm? I like Zero, but I find it very fiddly to program. Haven't tried Algo yet but it certainly looks much more flexible & intuitive

Post Reply
  • Information
  • Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests