Ableton 11 Release Announced

Want to talk about music hardware or software that doesn't include Reason?
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w1pl0c
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Post 11 Feb 2021

Feb 23rd.
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PhillipOrdonez
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Post 11 Feb 2021

Can't wait 😎
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Billy+
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Post 11 Feb 2021

Man I can't stand that excuse for a DAW, it's like working on a spreadsheet with all them boxes.........

It would be a sad sad day if you caught me wearing that pants!
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zoidkirb
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Post 11 Feb 2021

ableton_live_10_announcement_5_web.jpg__2880x1800_q85_crop_subsampling-2_upscale.jpg
Wavetable fully unfolded is pretty great though, and the different waveform views are way more detailed and meaningful than Europas.
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Billy+
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Post 11 Feb 2021

To be fair that does look a bit more interesting but I'm still not sold on it. I'm more interested in FL Studio than Live I don't know what it is about Live I just can't get on with it........

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zoidkirb
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Post 11 Feb 2021

Billy+ wrote:
11 Feb 2021
To be fair that does look a bit more interesting but I'm still not sold on it. I'm more interested in FL Studio than Live I don't know what it is about Live I just can't get on with it........
It takes some getting used but what I like about the Live UI is the super organised , clean and "boringness" because it gets out of way and I focus on the actual music more. One thing I'll probably never be comfortable with is the arranger page with its inspector on the right hand side. Insanity!

With Reason though it's the opposite, I love getting lost in the real-world hardware graphics , and getting inspired plugging away at cable spaghetti.
As for FL..looks nice but I'm too old and time poor to get into that powerful but bloaty and convoluted thing.

PhillipOrdonez
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Post 11 Feb 2021

Billy+ wrote:
11 Feb 2021
Man I can't stand that excuse for a DAW, it's like working on a spreadsheet with all them boxes.........

It would be a sad sad day if you caught me wearing that pants!

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Man, it is so fast...
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teddymcw
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Post 12 Feb 2021

Not hugely impressed with the announcement materials tbh:

The spectral sounds has been strongly available through Parsec and others for us for a long while now, pretty good audio comping as well. I'm learning Logic now so i know I have access to nearly everything live does, and with Reason as many or more sounds.

I mean Ableton is great, more power to all the DAWs! It ain't a zero-sum game :) Just saying I'm sorta glad and somewhat disappointed the news didn't give lust for greener grass as may have happened in the past.

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craste
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Post 13 Feb 2021

I've got Ableton Suite so will get the update when released, I tried Ableton in the past and didn't really like it, I thought it looked a bit boring compared to Reason.

Since Reason enabled VST I have really enjoyed using some of the better synths on the market like Serum and Sylenth etc and slowly moved away from using the stock Reason devices whilst using Reason.

Then we could use the Reason Rack in other Daw's so i thought why not give it a go. I downloaded Ableton in the lockdown 3 month trial and slowly learned to like it. I chose Ableton as most of the DJ/Producers I aspire to be like actually use Ableton, so I thought that it will be really easily to implement what I have learned from watching said producers YouTube tutorials etc.

So the the way Reason has evolved has kind of helped push me a way from it. To be fair I only really use the Scale and Keys player now from Reason to play VSt's within Ableton as I'm not keyboard player and don't know music theory.

I actually prefer Ableton now as the sequencer is so much faster and you finish tracks faster because you're not spending hours tidying up the beautiful Reason Rack or trying to find the instrument you want to tweak and flicking between windows! ha ha

I did love Reason but to me its lost its way a bit, and like many others here, if Reason 12 doesn't wow me with some great sequencer enhancements for me to try and then go back to it, I don't think I'm going to upgrade.

I feel really bad about that because I've been using Reason for so long too.

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James Bermingham
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Post 14 Feb 2021

Billy+ wrote:
11 Feb 2021
Man I can't stand that excuse for a DAW, it's like working on a spreadsheet with all them boxes.........

It would be a sad sad day if you caught me wearing that pants!

IMG_2488.JPG

IMG_2487.JPG
They are both beautiful DAWs. Truly.. Open the other eye fully. There is room in your heart for both. :D

The fact you are looking in this thread has you curious. That sad sad sad day is in the past. Put the pants on. Good times...

Reason & Ableton. Beauties :thumbup:

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Billy+
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Post 14 Feb 2021

James Bermingham wrote:
14 Feb 2021

They are both beautiful DAWs. Truly.. Open the other eye fully. There is room in your heart for both. :D

The fact you are looking in this thread has you curious. That sad sad sad day is in the past. Put the pants on. Good times...

Reason & Ableton. Beauties :thumbup:
:lol:

If I go anywhere I'm going Logic :thumbup: My brother has tried for years to get me into using Live but I just don't like it.

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guitfnky
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Post 14 Feb 2021

I jus re-downloaded my lite license (for the third time), thanks to this thread. the first time, I hated the GUI, the second, I got myself too frustrated trying to work in session view (Blocks is better for sandboxing ideas don’t @ me), but this time, going into it, I actually had a decent time playing around with it.

the new stuff that’s coming includes stuff that pushed me over the top into the No column before even really giving it a proper chance. the linked editing is a huge thing—I’m dealing with the lack of it right now in Reason, and it just sucks.

I have to wait for R12 to see what it brings to the table before I’d consider dropping $400 on a new DAW, but it could be promising if R12 is underwhelming.

Ableton users—how is the performance, compared to Reason? and what about stability? hard for me to test since Ableton Lite I think only allows a stupidly small track count (8, I think?)

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zoidkirb
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Post 14 Feb 2021

guitfnky wrote:
14 Feb 2021
I jus re-downloaded my lite license (for the third time), thanks to this thread. the first time, I hated the GUI, the second, I got myself too frustrated trying to work in session view (Blocks is better for sandboxing ideas don’t @ me), but this time, going into it, I actually had a decent time playing around with it.

the new stuff that’s coming includes stuff that pushed me over the top into the No column before even really giving it a proper chance. the linked editing is a huge thing—I’m dealing with the lack of it right now in Reason, and it just sucks.

I have to wait for R12 to see what it brings to the table before I’d consider dropping $400 on a new DAW, but it could be promising if R12 is underwhelming.

Ableton users—how is the performance, compared to Reason? and what about stability? hard for me to test since Ableton Lite I think only allows a stupidly small track count (8, I think?)
Performance wise they're similar I think. Reason is unique in that the GUI feels noticeably laggy once the project is big, whereas Live always feels snappy.
Reason is way more stable, it maybe crashes for me 1 in 100 sessions whereas Live is maybe more like 1 in 20 sessions.
I speculate thats down to a combination of Live's audio engine always treating each track as "armed" , coupled with some weirdness from running Max For Live inside Live.

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guitfnky
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Post 14 Feb 2021

zoidkirb wrote:
14 Feb 2021
guitfnky wrote:
14 Feb 2021
I jus re-downloaded my lite license (for the third time), thanks to this thread. the first time, I hated the GUI, the second, I got myself too frustrated trying to work in session view (Blocks is better for sandboxing ideas don’t @ me), but this time, going into it, I actually had a decent time playing around with it.

the new stuff that’s coming includes stuff that pushed me over the top into the No column before even really giving it a proper chance. the linked editing is a huge thing—I’m dealing with the lack of it right now in Reason, and it just sucks.

I have to wait for R12 to see what it brings to the table before I’d consider dropping $400 on a new DAW, but it could be promising if R12 is underwhelming.

Ableton users—how is the performance, compared to Reason? and what about stability? hard for me to test since Ableton Lite I think only allows a stupidly small track count (8, I think?)
Performance wise they're similar I think. Reason is unique in that the GUI feels noticeably laggy once the project is big, whereas Live always feels snappy.
Reason is way more stable, it maybe crashes for me 1 in 100 sessions whereas Live is maybe more like 1 in 20 sessions.
I speculate thats down to a combination of Live's audio engine always treating each track as "armed" , coupled with some weirdness from running Max For Live inside Live.
thanks—those are two of the more important things for me. the stability thing has me a little worried, but I have to assume they’re making strides with the new version.

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zoidkirb
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Post 14 Feb 2021

guitfnky wrote:
14 Feb 2021
thanks—those are two of the more important things for me. the stability thing has me a little worried, but I have to assume they’re making strides with the new version.
Yeah. Undoubtedly others may have a trouble free experience...as usual YMMV. One thing in Lives defence though is the crash recovery, it's excellent. Even if things are a bit crashy now and then, I've always been able to automatically recover work on the next startup.

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tt_lab
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Post 15 Feb 2021

I was trying Live to leave Reason DAW behind because of the sale...but then I've tried Studio One...I'm feeling like I've just woken up from 1996 direct to 2021...Studio One is so advanced!
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guitfnky
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Post 15 Feb 2021

zoidkirb wrote:
14 Feb 2021
guitfnky wrote:
14 Feb 2021
thanks—those are two of the more important things for me. the stability thing has me a little worried, but I have to assume they’re making strides with the new version.
Yeah. Undoubtedly others may have a trouble free experience...as usual YMMV. One thing in Lives defence though is the crash recovery, it's excellent. Even if things are a bit crashy now and then, I've always been able to automatically recover work on the next startup.
oddly enough, I had that happen this morning, but not because of a crash--my power went out for a few seconds, and when I rebooted, Ableton asked if I wanted to restore the session. it was still blank, since I had only just booted anyway, and was getting my coffee ready, but it was nice to see, all the same.

I have to say, I'm feeling pretty impressed with it so far, now that I'm actually giving it a good look. I realized that two new features in 11 would be pretty game changing for me--probabilistic MIDI notes, and velocity ranges, right within the sequencer...this would render my complaints about Reason Players and lack of VST MIDI into Reason totally moot. I might finally be on to a solid DAW that makes realistic drum parts actually easy...

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zoidkirb
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Post 15 Feb 2021

guitfnky wrote:
15 Feb 2021


oddly enough, I had that happen this morning, but not because of a crash--my power went out for a few seconds, and when I rebooted, Ableton asked if I wanted to restore the session. it was still blank, since I had only just booted anyway, and was getting my coffee ready, but it was nice to see, all the same.

I have to say, I'm feeling pretty impressed with it so far, now that I'm actually giving it a good look. I realized that two new features in 11 would be pretty game changing for me--probabilistic MIDI notes, and velocity ranges, right within the sequencer...this would render my complaints about Reason Players and lack of VST MIDI into Reason totally moot. I might finally be on to a solid DAW that makes realistic drum parts actually easy...
Yes the new probability features are game changers. I'm doing particular stuff there super quickly that would take a lot of setting up of players and utilities in Reason.

Another even less talked about improvement is the new scene/clip follow commands which transforms session mode into an improvisational and generative beast.

These two things pretty much justified my upgrade, along with macro snapshots, audio/midi comping and the plethora of new fx and sounds being the icing on the cake.

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guitfnky
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Post 15 Feb 2021

zoidkirb wrote:
15 Feb 2021
guitfnky wrote:
15 Feb 2021


oddly enough, I had that happen this morning, but not because of a crash--my power went out for a few seconds, and when I rebooted, Ableton asked if I wanted to restore the session. it was still blank, since I had only just booted anyway, and was getting my coffee ready, but it was nice to see, all the same.

I have to say, I'm feeling pretty impressed with it so far, now that I'm actually giving it a good look. I realized that two new features in 11 would be pretty game changing for me--probabilistic MIDI notes, and velocity ranges, right within the sequencer...this would render my complaints about Reason Players and lack of VST MIDI into Reason totally moot. I might finally be on to a solid DAW that makes realistic drum parts actually easy...
Yes the new probability features are game changers. I'm doing particular stuff there super quickly that would take a lot of setting up of players and utilities in Reason.

Another even less talked about improvement is the new scene/clip follow commands which transforms session mode into an improvisational and generative beast.

These two things pretty much justified my upgrade, along with macro snapshots, audio/midi comping and the plethora of new fx and sounds being the icing on the cake.
yeah, I was watching some videos this morning and stumbled across the follow command stuff—that and the probabilistic/velocity stuff made me rethink the usefulness of the session view for what I do. I’m not much for playing stuff on the fly in session view, but learning I could structure all of this to play by itself is pretty incredible. I could end up taking back my earlier comment about preferring Blocks in Reason. 😆

PhillipOrdonez
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Post 15 Feb 2021

guitfnky wrote:
14 Feb 2021
I jus re-downloaded my lite license (for the third time), thanks to this thread. the first time, I hated the GUI, the second, I got myself too frustrated trying to work in session view (Blocks is better for sandboxing ideas don’t @ me), but this time, going into it, I actually had a decent time playing around with it.

the new stuff that’s coming includes stuff that pushed me over the top into the No column before even really giving it a proper chance. the linked editing is a huge thing—I’m dealing with the lack of it right now in Reason, and it just sucks.

I have to wait for R12 to see what it brings to the table before I’d consider dropping $400 on a new DAW, but it could be promising if R12 is underwhelming.

Ableton users—how is the performance, compared to Reason? and what about stability? hard for me to test since Ableton Lite I think only allows a stupidly small track count (8, I think?)
More like 1 in 50 for live and 1 in 500 for Reason (crashing) and it is very snappy no matter how large your projects get.

I've gotten tired of scrolling down on certain projects I've mixed for clients (too many tracks) and it's always snappy. Luckily you can minimize entire groups (is that what people call track folders?) And that allows for tidying things up. I cannot imagine how long a large mix like that would take with Reason...

RRP works great on it too. Been using it more and more to write. Still prefer Reason for editing dialogue though 🤷‍♂️
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guitfnky
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Post 15 Feb 2021

PhillipOrdonez wrote:
15 Feb 2021
guitfnky wrote:
14 Feb 2021
I jus re-downloaded my lite license (for the third time), thanks to this thread. the first time, I hated the GUI, the second, I got myself too frustrated trying to work in session view (Blocks is better for sandboxing ideas don’t @ me), but this time, going into it, I actually had a decent time playing around with it.

the new stuff that’s coming includes stuff that pushed me over the top into the No column before even really giving it a proper chance. the linked editing is a huge thing—I’m dealing with the lack of it right now in Reason, and it just sucks.

I have to wait for R12 to see what it brings to the table before I’d consider dropping $400 on a new DAW, but it could be promising if R12 is underwhelming.

Ableton users—how is the performance, compared to Reason? and what about stability? hard for me to test since Ableton Lite I think only allows a stupidly small track count (8, I think?)
More like 1 in 50 for live and 1 in 500 for Reason (crashing) and it is very snappy no matter how large your projects get.

I've gotten tired of scrolling down on certain projects I've mixed for clients (too many tracks) and it's always snappy. Luckily you can minimize entire groups (is that what people call track folders?) And that allows for tidying things up. I cannot imagine how long a large mix like that would take with Reason...

RRP works great on it too. Been using it more and more to write. Still prefer Reason for editing dialogue though 🤷‍♂️
thanks, I kinda figured those estimates were a little pessimistic since Reason almost never crashes on me. the only issues I’ve really had have been hardware-related, and I’d guess my number of crashes per open are closer to that range (ignoring hardware problems).

I don’t have too much trouble when scrolling in Reason, and generally have a lot of stuff going on, so performance is important to me. so far, the CPU use # in Ableton has me a little bit concerned, but it seems like freezing and un-freezing tracks is super painless, so that may not be worth worrying about.

but yes, RRP works really well in it! I found myself working in it, when I should have been trying to learn. 😅

I’m happy with the overall workflow so far, but there’s a lot more I have yet to learn. starting to love the integrated UI—everything is where it feels like it belongs, and doesn’t feel disjointed, like most other DAWs I’ve used.

at this point, I think I’ve already decided I’m going to get Ableton—it’s just a matter of how long I can hold out and just learn using 8 tracks and 2 busses now (not long, I’m sure). 🤦🏻‍♂️

EdGrip
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Post 17 Feb 2021

I've really been enjoying Ableton. I find the Rack in Reason can get quite chaotic, both visually and mentally for me. Ableton also steers me more away from sound design and more towards making things happen musically, which is helpful to me. I'm also enjoying the emphasis on working with samples.

I bought Ableton and a used Push 2 at the same time, and the Push is a big factor in the fun I'm having.

There's no doubt that Reason makes sound design ideas very easy to explore. Having both is great - the ability to bounce stems or samples from one to work with in the other, and now the RRP. It's a good time to be enjoying the daft hobby of instructing computers to make sequences of noises.

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arnigretar
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Post 17 Feb 2021

Owner of Ableton Live 10 suite here. Not sure if I upgrade or not. I think I will wait and see how Reason 12 turns out before I make a decision. Use both platforms.

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guitfnky
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Post 17 Feb 2021

the more I’m using it, the more I wonder if I’ll even be interested in what Reason 12 is like. if I get familiar enough with Ableton (which I’m already working at), I have a feeling the functionality there is so far ahead of what I can do in Reason that even if 12 is a massive upgrade, it will still likely be far behind.

PhillipOrdonez
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Post 17 Feb 2021

guitfnky wrote:
17 Feb 2021
the more I’m using it, the more I wonder if I’ll even be interested in what Reason 12 is like. if I get familiar enough with Ableton (which I’m already working at), I have a feeling the functionality there is so far ahead of what I can do in Reason that even if 12 is a massive upgrade, it will still likely be far behind.
I guess we'll have to wait and see, slow robot...ok. 😂

Seriously though, perhaps for users of other daws, the new features the rack could bring could be more enticing than those of the standalone app. Now they have to work on both to be able to grab our moneys with future updates.

As always, in my case, it has been dependant on what features they provide and whether they are worth my money and whether I have the funds available. And features on both standalone and RRP will be deciding factors for me as I use both standalone and RRP.

Patience is key.
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