RRP Going Forward

This forum is for discussing the Reason Rack Plugin, the version of the Reason rack that runs as a VST3, AU, AAX in other DAWs.
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Creativemind
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Post 30 Jan 2021

Hi All!

I think the Reason Rack Plug-In going forward should now be upgradable without having to upgrade Reason. I'm sure any new additions to the RRP will come when 12 is released and you'll need to upgrade to it to get them even if you may no longer have any interest in Reason.

I think there should be the option to just upgrade the RRP (and therefore it will then not need to launch Reason to work which would also in turn make it more smooth to load up in your daw) at a cheaper price going forward. So if you upgrade to Reason 12 you get the features of the RRP too but if you don't use Reason, the option to just upgrade the RRP for say £50 whereas the Reason upgrade is usually £110.

What are other people's thoughts?
:reason:

Propellerhead Reason 11.3 / Cockos Reaper 6.25 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Orion 8.6
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3

Dave Beep
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Joined: 16 May 2020

Post 30 Jan 2021

Creativemind wrote:
30 Jan 2021
Hi All!

I think the Reason Rack Plug-In going forward should now be upgradable without having to upgrade Reason. I'm sure any new additions to the RRP will come when 12 is released and you'll need to upgrade to it to get them even if you may no longer have any interest in Reason.

I think there should be the option to just upgrade the RRP (and therefore it will then not need to launch Reason to work which would also in turn make it more smooth to load up in your daw) at a cheaper price going forward. So if you upgrade to Reason 12 you get the features of the RRP too but if you don't use Reason, the option to just upgrade the RRP for say £50 whereas the Reason upgrade is usually £110.

What are other people's thoughts?
It would be nice, but I don't see any reason why they would do that.

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joeyluck
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Post 30 Jan 2021

I imagine many RRP users will sit with what they have until they feel enticed to upgrade based on new devices added.

$129 can still be a really great price even if you aren't using the DAW. I think back to before Record and Reason 6.5, when the upgrades to Reason were mostly new devices and that's the price we've always been paying.

I guess the question will be what built-in devices RS adds and what updates they can make to the Rack.

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QVprod
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Post 30 Jan 2021

The main difference between the two is the sequencer. Otherwise they’re pretty much the same product. I don’t really see a functional point in separating them. Like Joey said, the only reason an RPP only user would have to upgrade to a new version is for new devices which has arguably been the largest value in most upgrades... hence the continual DAW feature frustrations here.

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Creativemind
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Post 30 Jan 2021

I disagree, I think £110 just to upgrade the RRP for say an updated NN-XT and Hi-Res is steep. Even if you're using the actual daw, the price they charge is almost a third the full software price for an upgrade for about an 1/8th the features / content, in fact a 1/10th.

I look at the amount of features most daw's add and think wow. Twice to 3 times more than Reason. I can't see me paying £110 to upgrade if I'm not planning on using the daw.
:reason:

Propellerhead Reason 11.3 / Cockos Reaper 6.25 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Orion 8.6
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3

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QVprod
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Post 31 Jan 2021

Creativemind wrote:
30 Jan 2021
I disagree, I think £110 just to upgrade the RRP for say an updated NN-XT and Hi-Res is steep. Even if you're using the actual daw, the price they charge is almost a third the full software price for an upgrade for about an 1/8th the features / content, in fact a 1/10th.

I look at the amount of features most daw's add and think wow. Twice to 3 times more than Reason. I can't see me paying £110 to upgrade if I'm not planning on using the daw.
You’re confirming what we said. Of course no one is upgrading for higher res graphics only. RRP only users would likely only upgrade for devices unless there’s some revolutionary functionality offered in the plugin. Otherwise, they won’t bother with a DAW feature only release. Those same devices would be included in the DAW making them the same. I doubt RS created the plugin with the idea of those users buying into the typical upgrade path. That’s what the RE shop, and now also R+ is for.

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zoidkirb
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Location: Brisbane Australia

Post 31 Jan 2021

RRP contains about 60 devices. At $130 upgrade price that's around $2 per device upgraded. Better value than WUP!

In all seriousness there is still further upgrades besides the big hd update that might appeal to RRP only users.
Midi channels, native sample drag n drop, and new synths and fx.

If that's not enough then people will wait till RRP13, skipping versions as usual.

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RoryM0
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Post 31 Jan 2021

I know this thread is about the pricing structure going forward but I just wanted to say that I would like to see the RRP become a giant combinator going forward. Macros and MIDI options all over the place.

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Creativemind
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Post 31 Jan 2021

zoidkirb wrote:
31 Jan 2021
RRP contains about 60 devices. At $130 upgrade price that's around $2 per device upgraded. Better value than WUP!

In all seriousness there is still further upgrades besides the big hd update that might appeal to RRP only users.
Midi channels, native sample drag n drop, and new synths and fx.

If that's not enough then people will wait till RRP13, skipping versions as usual.
Yeah but all those devices you mention I've already paid for buying Reason.

After some more thought though (I was gonna suggest upgrading the plug-in but not the daw and have them tied together like it is now) but it sounded too complicated from a coding perspective.

I think from 12 going forward it might be more beneficial if they sold the RRP as a separate thing and you didn't need Reason 12 to use it. You could buy the RRP for £150 or you can upgrade it for £50 if you already own it. So people like me would (on 11) be buying the upgrade only to continue using it in your daw, then from that point onward it was a separate thing but still included in the 12 upgrade.

I mean if you have no intention of using Reason (as it's gonna take 30+ features to entice me back which I wouldn't expect till Reason 13 at least) then it's expensive paying £110 for say sample loading into the devices and Hi-Res graphics in the plug-in.
:reason:

Propellerhead Reason 11.3 / Cockos Reaper 6.25 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Orion 8.6
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3

chaosroyale
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Post 31 Jan 2021

Disclaimer - I am not a marketing person, and I am probably horrifically out of touch!
But I feel like RS are half-assing two things, instead of whole-assing one thing.

Reason is a...plug-in? a VSTi? a DAW?

This leads to some very mixed messages. Why not clearly divide the Rack Plugin from the DAW for marketing purposes.

Just an example -

Reason Rack Plugin $199 or 10$/mo - no DAW features.
>Advertise directly to Live, Cubase, and FL users
>The competition is Omnisphere / Komplete
>Strong point, Reason is cheaper than them and has easy modular style routing and a friendly interface.
Needs: improve the legacy units to modern standards - add oversampling, finer grained filter sweeps, etc.

Reason DAW $399 or 20$/mo - "traditional" Reason; all the Rack features plus the DAW
>Your competition is Bitwig and Studio One, Ableton Live to a certain extent (*similar nerdy users)
>Strong point, Reason's modular stuff is more "hands-on" feeling than the competition, Reason's built-in instruments are better designed*
*with the proviso that some updating is done as mentioned above
>By promoting it separately from the RRP, it gives a stronger image to each package. The RRP is a "killer plug-in", the DAW is "the modular sound design DAW". Neither feels like an add-on or afterthought.
>Updates can focus on quality of life, and not make all the Reason-as-a-DAW users hate you so much.
Needs: bring the modular aspect such as combinator up to the standard of the competition. The Basic concept is already good. Copy a bunch of quality of life updates from Studio One - those guys have already done all the hard R&D for you.

I think that would give Reason a much stronger image with all the potential customers.

However; I think I am 180º from the intentions of Reason Studios. The tone of the advertising is going in the exact opposite direction.
My idea assumes that Reasons "killer app" is to be a powerhouse for sound design, embracing the slightly "eccentric" and non-mainstream nature of Reason. Not a "lite" product aimed at kids or very casual users. Recently, everything they do looks like it is aimed at complete beginners - they never show Reason as being a professional product, or something you would use to make an album or a movie soundtrack.

The casual kids already have a pirate copy of FL studio and Serum, so I don't think they are going to hurry to buy the full version of Reason.

Like I said, this is just my dumb idea, and I am probably not the kind of user Reason wants any more. Maybe one of you guys has a better idea.

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zoidkirb
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Location: Brisbane Australia

Post 31 Jan 2021

I think rather than discount the RRP they will rather use the supposed value to drive customers towards the subscription. Getting customers onto R+ for a few months they see as more profitable than a cheap RRP upgrade.

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Creativemind
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Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK

Post 31 Jan 2021

chaosroyale wrote:
31 Jan 2021
Disclaimer - I am not a marketing person, and I am probably horrifically out of touch!
But I feel like RS are half-assing two things, instead of whole-assing one thing.

Reason is a...plug-in? a VSTi? a DAW?

This leads to some very mixed messages. Why not clearly divide the Rack Plugin from the DAW for marketing purposes.

Just an example -

Reason Rack Plugin $199 or 10$/mo - no DAW features.
>Advertise directly to Live, Cubase, and FL users
>The competition is Omnisphere / Komplete
>Strong point, Reason is cheaper than them and has easy modular style routing and a friendly interface.
Needs: improve the legacy units to modern standards - add oversampling, finer grained filter sweeps, etc.

Reason DAW $399 or 20$/mo - "traditional" Reason; all the Rack features plus the DAW
>Your competition is Bitwig and Studio One, Ableton Live to a certain extent (*similar nerdy users)
>Strong point, Reason's modular stuff is more "hands-on" feeling than the competition, Reason's built-in instruments are better designed*
*with the proviso that some updating is done as mentioned above
>By promoting it separately from the RRP, it gives a stronger image to each package. The RRP is a "killer plug-in", the DAW is "the modular sound design DAW". Neither feels like an add-on or afterthought.
>Updates can focus on quality of life, and not make all the Reason-as-a-DAW users hate you so much.
Needs: bring the modular aspect such as combinator up to the standard of the competition. The Basic concept is already good. Copy a bunch of quality of life updates from Studio One - those guys have already done all the hard R&D for you.

I think that would give Reason a much stronger image with all the potential customers.

However; I think I am 180º from the intentions of Reason Studios. The tone of the advertising is going in the exact opposite direction.
My idea assumes that Reasons "killer app" is to be a powerhouse for sound design, embracing the slightly "eccentric" and non-mainstream nature of Reason. Not a "lite" product aimed at kids or very casual users. Recently, everything they do looks like it is aimed at complete beginners - they never show Reason as being a professional product, or something you would use to make an album or a movie soundtrack.

The casual kids already have a pirate copy of FL studio and Serum, so I don't think they are going to hurry to buy the full version of Reason.

Like I said, this is just my dumb idea, and I am probably not the kind of user Reason wants any more. Maybe one of you guys has a better idea.
Some of those points sound fair. Reason is lacking direction and sticking the Shop down the bottom of their main site page. That makes no sense.

£110 though to upgrade to 12 just to get Hi-Res and probably nothing else in the RRP be honest, will they allow VST loading in the plug-in? my instincts say not. Will we get a much more up to standard NN-XT or Combinator 2? Hmmm, doubtful I'd say. Built in Undo's in the Rack Plug-In is very much necessary too.
:reason:

Propellerhead Reason 11.3 / Cockos Reaper 6.25 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Orion 8.6
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3

micahkovacs
Posts: 3
Joined: 01 Feb 2021

Post 04 Feb 2021

Hello,

Does anyone know how to recall rewire sessions with the RRP in Pro Tools 2020.12 in Catalina?
I have been trying to contact RS Support, but have had no response.
Basically, I have some older PT sessions that have used Reason Rewire and I recently had to upgrade to Catalina because my Macbook HD fried.
So I am stuck in this MacOS with a great version of Pro Tools, but my reason rewire doesnt work.... i dont even see a rewire plugin in the list or folder.
The RRP is awesome, but does it recall or import any Reason sessions?
Thanks for your help.

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lowtom
Posts: 103
Joined: 29 Sep 2017

Post 04 Feb 2021

RoryM0 wrote:
31 Jan 2021
I know this thread is about the pricing structure going forward but I just wanted to say that I would like to see the RRP become a giant combinator going forward. Macros and MIDI options all over the place.
This!

I would also like to see parameters to show correct values in host.
:reason: :refill: :re:

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jam-s
Posts: 1313
Joined: 17 Apr 2015
Location: Aachen, Germany

Post 04 Feb 2021

micahkovacs wrote:
04 Feb 2021
Does anyone know how to recall rewire sessions with the RRP in Pro Tools 2020.12 in Catalina?
I have been trying to contact RS Support, but have had no response.
Basically, I have some older PT sessions that have used Reason Rewire and I recently had to upgrade to Catalina because my Macbook HD fried.
So I am stuck in this MacOS with a great version of Pro Tools, but my reason rewire doesnt work.... i dont even see a rewire plugin in the list or folder.
The RRP is awesome, but does it recall or import any Reason sessions?
Thanks for your help.
Reason 11 dropped support for Rewire with the introduction oft the RRP. So if you want to open a Rewired session you have to do this with Reason 10 (or lower). Both versions can be installed side-by-side.
If you're in Aachen, come and visit us at the Voidspace. ... Pool's closed due to corona.

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