Reason updates (11.3.7 / 11.3.8) and Reason+

[tc13]

Why anyone using Reason more or less daily should subscribe is beyond me. If I was a user like that I would never consider that option. Subscribe when you need it, and for less than a couple of beers! Perfect solution if you ask me. Otherwise just buy it and be done with.

But I'm using Reason maybe a month or two per year. So 40 bucks a year is such a sweet deal. I think there is a lot of people exactly in the same situation. During the years I have bought, and sold, Reason 4 times. I've bought maybe 25 Re's. Some just for use 1 or 2 times.

90 per cent of the time I'm using Logic. Reason has always been something to play around with for fun. I think RS are going to get a lot of short subscriptions from people in this situation.

So a subsription like Reason+ and still having the option to buy, is really the best of both worlds and I really fail to understand how anyone can't see that. And all the anger is so typical for Internet the latest years, a lot of entitled people screaming like babies when things aren't exactly like they want it to be. And if it isn't, it is evil, and should be cancelled. Shame on you really!

[Loque]

...
But I'm using Reason maybe a month or two per year. So 40 bucks a year is such a sweet deal. I think there is a lot of people exactly in the same situation
...

I was thinking about the same. TBH, i have some rare moments in a month/year where i can really make some music. Most of the time i am fiddling, trying, making sounds and stuff which is cool for sure. But really time to concentrate on music making?

Making music takes a bit time unless you are a genious. It is perfect for 2-3 weeks of holidays or something like this. Get something going. Keep it for the next holiday or so...why not?

[Kalm]

Why anyone using Reason more or less daily should subscribe is beyond me. If I was a user like that I would never consider that option. Subscribe when you need it, and for less than a couple of beers! Perfect solution if you ask me. Otherwise just buy it and be done with.

But I'm using Reason maybe a month or two per year. So 40 bucks a year is such a sweet deal. I think there is a lot of people exactly in the same situation. During the years I have bought, and sold, Reason 4 times. I've bought maybe 25 Re's. Some just for use 1 or 2 times.

90 per cent of the time I'm using Logic. Reason has always been something to play around with for fun. I think RS are going to get a lot of short subscriptions from people in this situation.

So a subsription like Reason+ and still having the option to buy, is really the best of both worlds and I really fail to understand how anyone can't see that. And all the anger is so typical for Internet the latest years, a lot of entitled people screaming like babies when things aren't exactly like they want it to be. And if it isn't, it is evil, and should be cancelled. Shame on you really!

Well let me put it this way. Adobe is subscription and I have that. Truth be told, I’m glad they went subscription.

Gasp

Difference being Adobe $53 gets you the ENTIRE cloud, not to mention student pricing, storage, content, and tutorials , plus whatever else they offer. Secondly, when something new is programed for the software say a new feature in photoshop — it’s automatically pushed as a free point update. Similar to Avid but ALOT more frequently. Then they also have tiers regulated to just what you need. To buy Adobe and constantly upgrade would honestly kill me if I’m using all the apps. Heck, photoshop is $10 bucks a month. $120 a year to get an industry standard program is nowhere near expensive.

So what does RS+ think this $20 strategy is about to do. If anyone notices, this is the same exact scenario that happened to Pro Tools. Ignored user base, upgrades mediocre after a specific version, never addressed old issues, went subscription and update plan, and look at Avid today...

[Melody303]

It just occurred to me that this development might have been decided on based on the survey answers RS got about 4 months back. On the other hand, they've hired people specifically for this project 18 months ago... so it's not very likely.

[EnochLight]

So, are you addressing me or not? You seem to be, but doing it in a roundabout passive-aggressive way. Maybe, with the magical ability to search my posts that's available to all users, you could see that i got active again before any of this nonsense started.

Did I name you? Do you think if I had the time to magically search every person's profile in this thread I'd be complaining about all of the morons we've had to ban in just the past 24 hours? For s h its and giggles, and did just look at your history now and see that you were absent for the most part these past 2 years until January 1, so welcome back! Maybe stick around this time?

[KRS Music]

Thanks for saving me seat guys, much appreciated.

So I'm sat here thinking 'wow, bet them dudes from Reason are having a glass of wine tonight!' And then I start thinking 'Yeah, with my money that I gave them last week for that Rack Extension!' Bloody hell! I was gonna come on here and have a right old rant, then I remembered, there's a bottle of wine in the garage. Phew. All good now.

Seriously though, I looked at my account to see how much I'd spent, and when. Seems I've spent about £130 a year since 2006. This includes most of the upgrades, I think I skipped one. I've obviously bought a few REs, some of them the more pricey ones and a lot of cheap or on sale stuff. I'll love them all, especially CrapRE. I never use it much but I do load it up and have a good old chortle to myself. It was worth buying it just for that. I also have proper grown up REs, like Antidote.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this but my point is, I'm probably an 'average old school musician type user' and I'm obviously quite happy to throw over £2000 at a software company just so that I can have creative freedom over some air molecules. But that's over about 16 years and I own a 'licence to use' the software for as long as I can maintain a PC or Mac that will run it. That's an important point right there. What 'breaks' software is usually software updates from MS or Apple. It's usually not the software company, but you know, shit happens.

Would I have been happy to 'subscribe' to receive the same service? Obviously this couldn't have happened because of the technology at the time but for arguments sake let's just pretend. I definitely would have considered it. I mean, imagine getting your hands on all that gear as a young musician. It's mad when you think of it like that.

From my point of view, I don't need to subscribe. I can make my own samples, beats, guitar tracks whatever. But I'm not 23 and about to explode if I don't get my incredible sounds down, the way I want. If I was and had nowt to lose but everything to gain, I may well subscribe just to see what it's like. And then when my new smash hit goes viral, it's win win for everyone. From my experience, those people are out there, right now, smashing out beats and laughing their heads off at the joy of getting the sound out of your head and into your speakers.

Anyway, the dog walk was fun. All very 'Starless and Bible Black' and that.

Looks like the wines kicked in!

Love you.

[EnochLight]

this is the thing about those among the mods who are so dismissive of all the complaints. if RS listened and actually took steps to communicate/make announcements more effectively, YOU WOULD HAVE LESS WORK TO DO IN TIMES LIKE THESE.

I seriously doubt that. Trust me.

the funny thing is, arguing with people who have legitimate concerns, causes them to continue responding to pointless pushback, which only makes the complaint even more visible (how many pages is this thread, now?).

It's a forum. People debate. People have opinions. If us mods didn't want that, this thread would have been locked a long time ago.

[guitfnky]

this is the thing about those among the mods who are so dismissive of all the complaints. if RS listened and actually took steps to communicate/make announcements more effectively, YOU WOULD HAVE LESS WORK TO DO IN TIMES LIKE THESE.

I seriously doubt that. Trust me.

the funny thing is, arguing with people who have legitimate concerns, causes them to continue responding to pointless pushback, which only makes the complaint even more visible (how many pages is this thread, now?).

It's a forum. People debate. People have opinions. If us mods didn't want that, this thread would have been locked a long time ago.

debate is a good thing. but if the result of the argument you’re making has the opposite effect of what you’re arguing for, it’s a waste of your own time.

[EdwardKiy]

Every musician keep it's keys on shelves

I'm sure the CEO just does his job the best he can and means (and does) well for the company. Don't forget he was vetted by the previous CEO who is also one of the Reason founders. If the founder trusted the guy - that's good enough for me.

Our goal here is to help him and the others at RS get better at listening to us.

[tanni]

There are (only) 392 votes here in the forum thread.....do you guys all here thinking thats a noticeable number of users ? I think not. Maybe we are a little minority of the Reason users....

[EdwardKiy]

There are (only) 392 votes here in the forum thread.....do you guys all here thinking thats a noticeable number of users ? I think not. Maybe we are a little minority of the Reason users....

check youtube comment section

[Faastwalker]

Perhaps Mattias and JP should take their, um discussion elsewhere. A public spat between a Product Manager and an RE Dev is not going to help anything.

I feel it does help things. Open and clear communication is a plus, not a minus, even if the specifics here are slightly off topic.

Yeah bring it on. Nothing wrong with things out in the open. I’ve learnt something from this public spat as well. Had no idea about the Gorilla thing. Very interesting. I can appreciate why JP is suspicious that some RE’s have been banged out on the quick. Quantity over quality? Depends on what you think of the product ultimately. The Turn2On output is phenomenal! You can barely keep up! I’ve loved some of their output, some not so great for me.

At the end of the day I think this is what is important to people buying the stuff. It’s not about how it’s made. We don’t care. That’s for the developers to be concerned about. If you are going to buy (in this case) an RE it’s about how good it sounds, how practical/functional it is, is it good value etc. NOBODY is thinking, ‘I wonder how long they took to make this?!’. It’s really all about the end product from the consumers perspective.

But this is the worry about Reason+. Will the quality be there? I think it will have to be in order for people to maintain their subscriptions. They can cancel any time. So if the flow of products are not up to scratch and don’t come fast enough people’s interest will wane. And it’s not very encouraging to hear about a patch that was an IDE8 in a Combinator with a couple of Combi knobs assigned! Is this true? Can’t be! I make better Combinators than that for myself! Maybe I should get in on the sound packs thing myself

[jetpilot00]

OK, I haven't posted in this forum much the last 5 years but I feel compelled to this evening.

The subscription model doesn't bother me at all as long as perpetual licensing remains......perpetual. That said, the pricing model for subscriptions doesn't make sense to me. If the goal is to get Reason in the hands of as many new users as practical, the pricing model is way off.

All new users aren't going to need everything you have made, will make. That will take time to get to the point where all those tools will have much value.

You would be much more in line to modern pricing schemes with the following subscriptions:

- Reason Entry (basic RS tools) $10.99
- Reason + (Level 1) $11.99
- Reason + (Level 2) $12.99
- Reason + (Level 3) $13.99
- Reason + (Level 4) $14.99

and so on up to the $20 for everything.

Each level includes 5 new tools (RS or 3rd party. It doesn't matter what that tool is. Instrument, effect, etc.)

The model can float from month to month based on needs. If someone only needs 5 tools this month but up to 15 next month, there is pricing for multiple needs that covers all and zero ambiguity.

This way you can display ALL tools together in the same shop and all developers are covered in pricing if their tools are chosen.

For what it's worth, I have created and sold businesses and my brain just works to find solutions for all.

I don't get a lot of time for music these days but when I do, I still reach for Reason.

-JP

[MuttReason]

Reason user since 1.0. Bought and owned pretty much every release since plus REs etc. Like others on here, I used to feel a real affinity with the guys at the old Propellerheads. They could be stubborn and they missed a lot of boats (remember “Reason doesn’t need audio in.... that’s what Record is for!”?) but Reason always had a kind of magic for me.... loved the whole hardware vibe. I’ve never felt as much affection for any software or software company as I have for Reason and Propellerheads.

So, now.... this. To put it mildly, the new management team at Reason Studios seem to have misread their customer base spectacularly badly. I don’t say that just based on the number of posts and votes on this board (or the YouTube comments). I say that because so many people in this thread, like me, are veterans of this product. This level of unhappiness among long-term users is rarely a good sign (and definitely not in the absence of a whole bunch of newer users saying “nah, back off, this is great”).

But the root problem is not the guys at RS (and definitely not the poor souls from RS tasked with wading into this board and taking all the heat). This is a problem of private equity. PE firms tend to be the cold, dead-eyed sharks of the capitalist world. Their entire business model is “strip, rip and flip”... strip out cost, rip off customers and suppliers, then flip to another PE firm after 3 to 5 years with a big profit. I’ve lost count of the number of good, decent companies absolutely destroyed by PE over the years. With a few honourable exceptions, PE are the opposite of the kind of investor any dedicated management team would want. Like others here, I expected this to happen one day the moment I saw the usual BS financial PR garbage when RS announced the PE stake. Clock was ticking.

How does that relate to Reason+? Because RS is only a saleable proposition to the next PE firm in line if it has a solid 3-5 years of consistent revenue growth performance. RS cannot achieve that consistency of revenue growth with a new major Reason release every 2-3 years, as in the old days. That is far too uncertain... lots of cost, for many months, and then what happens if the big release is a failure? The current PE owners won’t tolerate that risk. They want reliable monthly revenues... regular cash flow is king, and the longer they can maintain that solid pipeline every month, the better the pitch to the next PE owners.

When the RS folk say “don’t worry, we won’t be subscription only, nothing has changed and nothing will change”, I believe they believe this is the truth. But, realty, it isn’t. It is very deeply not true, at all. That is not how PE works. For the owners of RS, everything now is about locking the users into a monthly payment cycle and then selling the business to another PE firm by showing off just how many people they have locked in. The old Reason way died the moment the old management did the deal with PE. Long history of this, everywhere.

This also explains why Reason+ has been priced so much higher than Netflix, Adobe, Amazon Prime, Dropbox Pro, Spotify and any other number of monthly subs, both consumer and professional. What market testing and focus groups did RS do before they settled on almost TWICE what anyone pays for most of the monthly services we use? My guess: none. That’s not how the $20/£20 pm was calculated, at all. I reckon they and the PE shareholders created a business plan which said something like “by 2023 we need a monthly revenue run rate of €XXX to be able to command a multiple of X as a transaction price, so that means we need to lock XXX people in for €20 a month in 2020. Oh, and a nice little ramp up of 10% a year once they are locked in and would lose everything they’ve created if they cancel”.

The other point here is that PE isn’t necessarily that smart, either. Plenty of examples of companies gouged out by PE so hard that PE owners can’t exit at a profit because there’s nothing much left to sell. There’s a real risk that will happen to RS and that PE greed will push the business into a spiral. It’s not over, yet, but it’s pretty damn close with this half-baked “announcement”.

Cynical? Nope. Music isn’t my day job. I’ve spent 30 years following this financial/markets stuff. I know how so many of these PE guys roll, and it isn’t pretty.

[Threpus]

After checking out the service, I have no strong feelings about it- except that it isn't meant for license holders, but we all knew that from the beginning. I think the sound packs are cool, essentially being presets that you can use as starting points, but nowhere near $20/month good. Interestingly, there are a number of Christmas-themed sound packs on Reason+. I wonder what the original launch date was- and if the delay (assuming there is one) has created a shift in their timeline regarding the release of Reason 12.

I'm starting to feel a bit desperate for RS to enhance the DAW. I think the future of the company depends on the next iteration- and incremental change will not be enough. The time and attention dedicated to this new service can only benefit them in the long run if they use the increased revenue to improve the core program. Regardless of whether or not my preferred features are included, they can keep me just by demonstrating a serious commitment to improving. God help me, I love it so.

[ProfessaKaos]

I think this is great for Reason Studio to further develop Reason, as the company will have a more of a steady income. This should help the company grow and progress into a bigger empire. I think it is great for the future of Reason Studios. This should help Reason features/updates come more often.
The only thing I hope is they continue to also have the option to buy everything outright for people whom prefer to own the products outright.

And if it doesn't work out, it might result in features being developed that we do like. For instance, being able to trial and buy products and preview samples from within the DAW instead of having to use the store via a browser.

[vertibration]

After checking out the service, I have no strong feelings about it- except that it isn't meant for license holders, but we all knew that from the beginning. I think the sound packs are cool, essentially being presets that you can use as starting points, but nowhere near $20/month good. Interestingly, there are a number of Christmas-themed sound packs on Reason+. I wonder what the original launch date was- and if the delay (assuming there is one) has created a shift in their timeline regarding the release of Reason 12.

I'm starting to feel a bit desperate for RS to enhance the DAW. I think the future of the company depends on the next iteration- and incremental change will not be enough. The time and attention dedicated to this new service can only benefit them in the long run if they use the increased revenue to improve the core program. Regardless of whether or not my preferred features are included, they can keep me just by demonstrating a serious commitment to improving. God help me, I love it so.

Yea, if they bungle Reason 12, its pretty much game over at that point. Too many companies doing big things, and big updates.

I actually think Reason 12 could be better than other DAW's out there if they get it right.

[EnochLight]

There are (only) 392 votes here in the forum thread.....do you guys all here thinking thats a noticeable number of users ? I think not. Maybe we are a little minority of the Reason users....

check youtube comment section

Do you think the amount of YouTube views are all the paying customers? I’m counting 14,000 views..

[Threpus]

I actually think Reason 12 could be better than other DAW's out there if they get it right.

I think most of us on this forum feel that way- there's clearly something that keeps us coming back. There are some unique things about Reason that would put it in a class by itself- the rack and its intuitive connectivity, a great mixer, the variety of midi effects and players- if only it wasn't compromised by severe shortcomings. I don't want to start listing all of the features it should add, but it is clear that there are a few key things that have to be in the next version. If RS gives us a version with those things included, the sky is the limit. Let's just hope that RS isn't trying to turn it into some sort of master plugin and instead recommits to making the best DAW possible.

[moneykube]

If this has been answered in the last 72 pages , I apologize.
QUESTION> if a collaborator gets reason + and you are using 11 suite...are song sessions still shareable, if all parties involved are using the same version of reason 11?... I own 98 percent of the racks that come with reason +... if the reason songs are not sharable so collaborators can open them...To me , this seems quite the opposite of this new endeavour making us more creative... ... forced subscription or the need to share huge bounced tracks... something I have pondered upon , since I do indeed collaborate with others... this seems like another obstacle reducing creativity in this fine community, and would not at all be adding to the unlimited creativity the recent propaganda seems to attempt to state will be the result... stated quite poorly as many have pointed out.

[Loque]

If this has been answered in the last 72 pages , I apologize.
QUESTION> if a collaborator gets reason + and you are using 11 suite...are song sessions still shareable, if all parties involved are using the same version of reason 11?... I own 98 percent of the racks that come with reason +... if the reason songs are not sharable so collaborators can open them...To me , this seems quite the opposite of this new endeavour making us more creative... ... forced subscription or the need to share huge bounced tracks... something I have pondered upon , since I do indeed collaborate with others... this seems like another obstacle reducing creativity in this fine community, and would not at all be adding to the unlimited creativity the recent propaganda seems to attempt to state will be the result... stated quite poorly as many have pointed out.

Every song saved with Reason 11 can be opened with Reason 11, regardless if you use the subscription or not.

[moneykube]

Every song saved with Reason 11 can be opened with Reason 11, regardless if you use the subscription or not.

awesome news

[certifiedbeatz]

So this has been going on to long ..long winded majority don't like it. After reviewing on my own I will say okay I get it but I believe the host of the stream needs to come here and say he blew it and he is out of touch.. Mattias well in my opinion is a true innovator.. with that being said I believe all suite owner should get friction for free and 50% off on the other mod plugin.. the rest well guess what we won't support it so enjoy your same profit and turn away your base .. u are going to get inconsistent numbers all year..

[turn2on]

Hi there. Im not touch any negative sides from my side.
Reason+ is just a service. To add some new users of Reason world. Later, when shop link is back to the main page of RS site, and when REs started to be available to buy for Reason+ users, can be interesting time.

Personally, Im dream now about Companion app future. Its can be whole new app: Authorizer alternative, special tab "RackExtnssions" or "Add-ons", can be the modern center, that can really help to improve problems of the RE Shop site.
Users long time find RE shop not intuitive. ANd if Companion adds RE sections (for fast view products, news about last 10-15 products at one pace, RE without ReFills at one place, some additional materials attachments from developers... No more need in sound clouds, internal audio examples from devs (may be possible attachments from users). Its can be a bomb..
Companion can have in the future big possibilities for the Reason community. Not social network as it been with alihoopa, but internal app, that created not only for Reason+, but also main Reason users... I try to believe that RS try to going someday with this solution. May be not. But its can be a real flexibility for Reason users to have Companion with RE world. Just add internal sections, like News about all, REs, reason, refills, packs, etc..
But now, we at the Reason+ promotion era. And Im not find any problem with that. One thing, Addons shop link. Now not better time to make it available for Reason+ users. They can ask, why you have Addons shop, but we cant buy REs? I think link removed specially, before RE purchases not start avaliable for Reason+ users...? Trying to think in this positive way..

[Gothi]

check youtube comment section

Do you think the amount of YouTube views are all the paying customers? I’m counting 14,000 views..

You are rigth, and I am sure the rest will sell their Suites and subscribe asap. Complainers are evidently in minority.

Reason forums are as polarized as always. Either PH/RS is a conspiracy of demons whose aim is to torture hopeful musicians and producers by fooling them into a trap, or they are untouchable Gods of the Olympic. Sure. It's the internet. Whatever fantasy that makes your day