Reason updates (11.3.7 / 11.3.8) and Reason+

[aftrshok99]

As a Studio One Sphere subscriber, for me Reason+ offers more in the way of value for the money. Granted I got Sphere on a deal so I'm only paying like $10 a month. I'm just more creative with Reason.

[avasopht]

Reason Studios should create something like Steam Guard for your phone. I don't know how, but it could be great for people with Reason+ on the road, motels, etc.
Turn your phone into an ignition key.

Well, there's always Google's Authorizer app.

[Loque]

I am sure, there will be something coming. But licensing is a difficult task. It is a mix between security, convenience for the user and not to get ripped off. Any combination of user, computer, other ppl and other computers might be possible...

Reason Studios should create something like Steam Guard for your phone. I don't know how, but it could be great for people with Reason+ on the road, motels, etc.
Turn your phone into an ignition key.

Interesting idea. Hopefully it woks for a while, when you do not have internet

[guitfnky]

Reason Studios should create something like Steam Guard for your phone. I don't know how, but it could be great for people with Reason+ on the road, motels, etc.
Turn your phone into an ignition key.

Interesting idea. Hopefully it woks for a while, when you do not have internet

my work had an option that was sort of like that—an RSA token would update every 30 seconds or so and you could authenticate by entering the 6 digit code within that timeframe. as I recall, that was the first step, before you could actually connect to the network. not sure exactly how it worked, but I think there was some sort of predetermined seed that let you authenticate without actually needing an internet connection.

[Nielsen]

Because there's a tug of war going on and it's between whether the company wants to satisfy new customers or satisfy old customers. It's hard to do both. The traditional existing customers are probably seen as baggage that's actually preventing the company from being as dynamic as its financial investors want it to be. They want it to attract a large but completely different and untapped-into demographic.

If Reason was setting up today then they would be a subscription model from day 1 because that's the way the technology industry works now.

No.

More money constantly is better than less money once every year-and-a-half. It's every company's wet dream. If they had leverage to go sub-only - they would do it in a heartbeat. It's just not viable at the time, but as an option is good for attracting new customers as well as being a foot in the door for sub-only.

However, what got me and some others angry was not the implementation of Reason+.

My take is that RE market has become gradually more saturated and the existing user base has eventually caught up to buying nearly every add-on it needs. So the turnover once generated by an evolving RE market is likely becoming increasingly stagnant. This combined with the mentioned challenge in attracting new users has essentially forced them to adopt a subscription model. It's possibly a matter of generating monthly turnover that can compensate where a different source of income previously thrived, and turnover is required to develop the product beyond what it has emerged to become. Call it a necessary evil, and thus they seek solutions from all conceivable angles, whether it's from traditional license purchases or subscriptions.

The widespread assumption that Reason is turning its back on the established user base is a worst case scenario currently being treated as the most likely scenario by many (not addressing anyone here in particular). That's not to say that subscribers won't outgrow traditional license buyers over time, but that's something I consider to be too distant future to worry about. Right now I think they're just trying to generate cash wherever they can, facilitating further development of the software.

[EnochLight]

You really have to ask? Really? Empathy for the possible misunderstandings that could arise if they did not clarify the status of former uses before presenting what finally seemed to be an option only and not a paradigm shift. You simply think that RS could not have presented this more carefully and caringly to their usual base? That what they did was the only possible option in all possible worlds? In that case, we are far beyond beyond fanboism and heading for true madness in form of absurd fatalism: RS had no other choice! Come on, man. You cannot be serious. Call it a slip of the mind and let it go, but plz don't try to argue. It is deemed to fail.

If calling people fanboys and insinuating people who don't agree with you are lacking imagination or psychologically mad, then go right ahead, champ. If that's the worst I have to deal with in this thread, I'll consider it a blessing.

Have a spliff, some chilly ambient and sleep, my friend.

[deeplink]

Conclusion:

The Reason Community finally turns against each other and eats itself

[Gothi]

Yeah, see - you're not making an argument at all because what you are writing DID NOT HAPPEN. They literally held a g oddam n livestream and explained EXACTLY how it works.

With these reactions and their basis on misunderstandings? So the rage was not due to Reason's lack of clarification but because 75% of their users simply are idiots that did not understood their 100% clear and unambigious explanation?

The misunderstandings are still raving out there and seemingly many have denounced Reason already not knowing that it was just an option.

SO...it did not happen? In your mind, it didn't, but seeminglly it did in a lot of others.

You are digging your own grave here, mate, but do try again, so I can debunk the crap for the sake of enlightenment.

[DaveyG]

Conclusion:

The Reason Community finally turns against each other and eats itself

Whadya mean "finally"?

[earwig83]

Definitely worth checking if it interests you! No doubt. Just not me for now. Most of the people in the angry camp like me are more upset about the long term implications of this. A lot of those same people predicted and worried about this looming subscription move upon entry of Verdane and the new CEO. So it feels like the sky is falling, even though it really isn't.. yet.

The big nightmare longtime reason weirdos like me have is not being able to open some obscure reason 7 file 20 years from now, which I know is ridiculous but then again, Props set the bar/standard for our expectations to be able to open old songs in perpetuity. Their fault for having had such excellent backwards compatibility all these years!

Subscriptions are inevitable though. It's like being a record store and denying that digital music downloads are the future.

It doesn't matter who invests or doesn't invest in any record store or label, they are going to figure out how to sell digital music if they are smart. They know and acknowledge that people still want their records and CDs, and those are still there, but they know people want digital music.

Then they found that not only are there people who want to buy digital music, there are people who want to subscribe to digital music. If you want to be the only music store that only sells records while everyone else offers options, good luck.

If you wish for Reason Studios to be Blockbuster denying the power of Netflix, you're actually rooting against them. People often joke about Propellerhead/Reason Studios being behind, but here they are getting out in front. While they certainly aren't the first ones to do it, they aren't waiting to be the last ones to simply offer the subscription option.

Three or so years ago when RE subscriptions were introduced, many of us asked, "Why not Reason?" It felt weird for it to not be an option for the DAW as well. Because, why not?

Absolutely fair, but you are also talking to a guy who STILL buys every record and cd he likes, has multiple computer and hardware backups in case certain old computers or OS die or stop being supported, just in case. Can't even trust the streaming platforms on always having what I want. Things randomly disappearing due to lame licensing stuff is exactly what the issue is. It's why piracy is always the fall back, because it seems rightful customers always get punished. Like the anti-piracy commercial at the beginning of DVDs I bought. Or DRM on games that punish loyal customers. hehhe

Ownership is key to enjoying consumerism, in my opinion. Otherwise it is socialism and not into the whole "you will own nothing and like it" psychosis of the ruling class. Those old Reason song files are important to me and I always want to run them, even if reason dies. I can do that up until 5 and technically the others if I clone an activated SSD a couple times in case of system crash. But online auth and now subs make that difficult, eh? Yes I'm nuts.

I hated when reason started that codemeter stuff because it meant that I couldn't keep my own backup of the program and load it anytime I wanted should they crumble. I also dislike downloader apps, like native access, etc. Plus the added risk of companies lazily ending support for stuff, especially MacOs. This is at the heart of what I am against. Not the sub model itself, but the dependence on "daddy" for permission to continue. I know it is the way things are going but the idea that it is what people want is manufactured consent, in my opinion. Philosophically, I always knew it would come to this but I took the risk in good faith. It ain't over yet either, btw. I just predict the relationship potentially souring. And I am worried about long term.

That's how much I love Reason, the software. Not the company, business model or the people behind it. They made something that is bigger and more important than they are, in my humble opinion. It is a musical paradigm that should have become free 5 years ago. It defined the skeuomorphic VST world that we enjoy today and I am thankful for that. But that revolution came because people pirated it and shared it and their songs freely. That's a whole other subject, of course. And there are parallels between what I am saying with regards to your points about streaming platforms. Still better to own physical copies so that when the censors come, you still have it.

They should make reason opensource, move on and build something new for the tik tok dummies and let us make reason what we believe it should be, should have been. Ok stepping of soap box now

[lowtom]

One more thing comes to mind after all the shit storm.
RS claim to target new users and want to broaden the user base. Nothing wrong with that, but if you are targeting more and more people who are newbies, not tech savvy, have short attention span and live in their own social media bubbles, then you get in a position that your communication must be lowered to the level of a toddler - easy, big letters, clear and loud messages.

[Gothi]

If calling people fanboys and insinuating people who don't agree with you are lacking imagination or psychologically mad, then go right ahead, champ. If that's the worst I have to deal with in this thread, I'll consider it a blessing.

Have a spliff, some chilly ambient and sleep, my friend.

You are excaping by meta-nonsense and thus lose sight of the point. Your argument is madness, whether this applies to you personally, I will leave to your therapist to decide.

Let's summarize it:

1) RS could not have presented this differently in any possible world
2) Empathy for faithful users could not have been implemented
3) The rage by most of the user base has no grounding because RS explained it exactly and unambigously (which makes the users idiots by default).

Sure, mate, whatever floats your boat

[Reasonable man]

People dont want to be tied into a subscription IN THE FUTURE. If they are .......they will go elsewhere.
Is it important to indicate this on a public forum , a forum that the company reads - Yes. Do the aplogists really need that explained to them?
There is no drama here . Its a forum ... a place to give your opinion.
Please ...apologists . Stop with the 'drama', 'Self intilted' 'spoiled' ' 'over-reaction' psychology . We hear it from you everytime people give their opinion.

Aplogists -sign up for subscription now ..today if you can and stick to it ... no going back . take a stand ..that will say more than any of you have in 60 pages .

[ulaw]

Well, at least I was right about one thing: they're incorporating the shop within reason with companion. I called it! That's basically what it is, and it may be the shop for the rest of us too. Wait and see.

On the other hand:

This thread is sickening, full of rampant speculation and unfounded hypotheses, classic conspiracy theory thinking.

Some so blatant they think their limited empathy is something that applies to everyone and not just their flawed selves. Perdedor de mierda

Some are so entitled it is sad and pathetic.

Come on. Nobody likes the subscription bar a few, why waste so much time writing about it and making us all read your verbal diarrhea?

We all did this during the rack extension shop release too! Doom I say! Doom!!!

[guitfnky]

If calling people fanboys and insinuating people who don't agree with you are lacking imagination or psychologically mad, then go right ahead, champ. If that's the worst I have to deal with in this thread, I'll consider it a blessing.

Have a spliff, some chilly ambient and sleep, my friend.

You are excaping by meta-nonsense and thus lose sight of the point. Your argument is madness, whether this apply to you personally, I leave to your therapist to decide.

Lets summarize it:

1) RS could not have presented this differently in any possible world
2) Empathy for faithful users could not have been implemented
3) The rage by most of the user base has no grounding because RS explained it exactly and unambiously (which makes the users idiots by default).

Sure, mate, Whatever floats your boats

the spirit of this critique is

there are two major opinions at this point:
—RS shares at least some of the blame for the contentious rollout
—users share all of the blame for the contentious rollout

the second is patently absurd.

there’s simply no reasonable way to lay widespread concern and confusion solely on the customer.

[bxbrkrz]

Now 60 pages. WallStreetbets says can go to 100 pages. Allegedly. Sources say.

[Timmy Crowne]

• RS releases the 11.3.7 update on Monday to generate hype. Who would be hyped? Existing users of course, since they would primarily be the ones who would see the updated preferences pane.

• RS releases a short video clip declaring that all questions would be answered in two days. Existing users, by and large, have been hoping for improvements to the core program. So naturally those users hoped the coming announcement would bring word of long-awaited features.

• Users tune in to the livestream only to find an announcement about a subscription plan, followed by the team excitedly talking about jingles, Zamboni's and labor unionization.

• RS changes their website to obscure links to the Shop and the option to buy a perpetual license.

Yeah, I don't think it had to go down like that. I don't think angry users are to be blamed for misunderstanding anything. I think a far better scenario would have been 3 months from now, to say "Here's Reason 12! We've worked hard to implement the features you've asked for. And now you have two ways to pay: If you like to buy your license as usual, please do so! But you can alternatively subscribe for $20/month if you want."

[Billy+]

Well I see the poll is remaining steady at about 70% of people who won't even try a plus service, I'm assuming it's because there is no plus to it!

If only had they said that you would own your license at the end of each cycle

[cymek74]

Presonus Sphere didn't get as much hate because it was done at the same time as a major release that addressed lots of user requests. It was more like "here is what you've asked for, and for some who want a different option or are just starting out, here's Sphere".
Reason was more like, "Look what we've done, forget about what most current users have been asking for the last few years........ Surprise! Reason+".

[guitfnky]

• RS releases the 11.3.7 update on Monday to generate hype. Who would be hyped? Existing users of course, since they would primarily be the ones who would see the updated preferences pane.

• RS releases a short video clip declaring that all questions would be answered in two days. Existing users, by and large, have been hoping for improvements to the core program. So naturally those users hoped the coming announcement would bring word of long-awaited features.

• Users tune in to the livestream only to find an announcement about a subscription plan, followed by the team excitedly talking about jingles, Zamboni's and labor unionization.

• RS changes their website to obscure links to the Shop and the option to buy a perpetual license.

Yeah, I don't think it had to go down like that. I don't think angry users are to be blamed for misunderstanding anything. I think a far better scenario would have been 3 months from now, to say "Here's Reason 12! We've worked hard to implement the features you've asked for. And now you have two ways to pay: If you like to buy your license as usual, please do so! But you can alternatively subscribe for $20/month if you want."

10000000000%

[taddx]

Well put @Timmy Crowne

[PhillipOrdonez]

An user here is arguing that they didn't communicate that people could continue with the usual upgrade path?

I understood it very clearly when they (RS) said it very early on on the stream, and repeated it several times, and I think multiple times on this forum and haven't read the blog posts but probably mentioned it there too...

If you get your info from the doom and gloom crew on the internet and not from the source, and assume it is fact, you're just like those who are gullible enough to buy into crazy conspiracy theories.

People have concerns about the future, but until then, there's nothing to do but wait to see how it unfolds. Pre-occupying oneself with ifs right now is a waste of time.

If my aunt had testicles, she would not be my aunt but my uncle.

If they go subscription only in the future, most of us would stop spending money on Reason and continue using it until we can't no more or simply move to a different tool and continue making music there. This would be unfortunate, both for us and for them, and it is obvious and I assume everyone at Reason Studios knows this, so I really doubt they will ever go that route. If they didn't know this, they definitely know now after the shit show yesterday with the stream comments and chat and the threads here.

What really bothers me is the disinformation. Many here use fear mongering, posting their opinions as facts, and then less intelligent people take that as truth and spread it over. Speculation isn't fact. GAH. Also bothering how some don't understand English and misinterpret what others say and then turn that into confirmation bias fuel.

The internet sucks because it gave everyone a voice.

[sprinkles__]

It's not a huge surprise, is it? The first sign of trouble that I noticed was the Verdane takeover:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7499884

Then the CEO was replaced:
https://www.musicradar.com/news/ernst-n ... -developer

All of this with 'optimistic' press releases of course.

Reason is an investment for a group of people who want to get rich(er), and grow the brand as big as they can. That's the reality that we're in.

Screen Shot 2021-01-28 at 17.45.56.png (259.46 KiB) Viewed 4395 times

Just one of the 'holdings', nestled between oil industry service companies, some online retailers, and marketing companies. Tells you all you need to know really.

[Gothi]

And now you have two ways to pay: If you like to buy your license as usual, please do so! But you can alternatively subscribe for $20/month if you want."

Yup. Can hardly be an impossible mission to state it like that. I do not get the motivation for the mission impossible argument. For all I know, I can be critical to certain aspects of the marketing and the product and still say it is the best music software, I have ever layed hands on. "Hear, mom, no cognitive dissonance"! What blindfolded loyalty in form of radical denialism is even good for has yet to be proven. Certainly not democracy, as experiences elsewhere have shown us.

[PhillipOrdonez]

• RS releases the 11.3.7 update on Monday to generate hype. Who would be hyped? Existing users of course, since they would primarily be the ones who would see the updated preferences pane.

• RS releases a short video clip declaring that all questions would be answered in two days. Existing users, by and large, have been hoping for improvements to the core program. So naturally those users hoped the coming announcement would bring word of long-awaited features.

• Users tune in to the livestream only to find an announcement about a subscription plan, followed by the team excitedly talking about jingles, Zamboni's and labor unionization.

• RS changes their website to obscure links to the Shop and the option to buy a perpetual license.

Yeah, I don't think it had to go down like that. I don't think angry users are to be blamed for misunderstanding anything. I think a far better scenario would have been 3 months from now, to say "Here's Reason 12! We've worked hard to implement the features you've asked for. And now you have two ways to pay: If you like to buy your license as usual, please do so! But you can alternatively subscribe for $20/month if you want."

That is assuming they released it with the intention to create hype. What if that wasn't the case? What would that do to your argument?