Reason updates (11.3.7 / 11.3.8) and Reason+

[Noise]

Finally made some friend jump on Reason Intro a few weeks ago... Now I had to give him the horrible news that Reason Intro is no longer available.
Showed him the "subscription" page, the said "wtf is that, 20€ for rental ?". Anyways, good news, jjrshop was still open for business.
Now he can use reason intro to record his guitar and it's done.

How is that horrible? It's not like his perpetual license for Reason Intro just "stops working". He can continue to use it as long as he wants. Also, there are still upgrade paths to the full (perpetual license) version if he wants.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... e-download

Let me clarify, He was using the TRIAL version of Reason Intro, and he tryed to buy it, and he couldn't buy it from the reason store.

Next, he landed on the "reason+" page and automatically said "wtf, subscription ?" (his words, sorry!) And let me underline, he is a "new" user and it was a imediate "no" for him.
So, I show him the JJRShop page, and bought it from there. He is now very happy using Reason Intro with vst support. I should get a commission

[Skimrok]

EdwardKiy

1. it's not about the money. it's catered to either new 'try it' users and those who have enough money to not care about the subscriptions costs anyway

it's the second part that's important.

2. they didn't deserve their break. It's time they were planted face-forward into the steaming pile of failure they produced. It's now become crystal clear that they don't respect their core user or their requests, referring to them as "the internet' or 'forum creatures that are always unhappy whatever we give them' during meetings, I bet.

It's like you're at the table with someone and you ask them to pass the salt. They give you pepper, bread, extra sauce and after another 3 years of asking for salt, they pass you a steak, even though you're vegetarian. You then proceed to ask them if they are hard of hearing or have a mental deficiency, to which they respond - 'of course not, you wanted the salt - correct? we hear you loud an clear! We're about to give it to you!". So your meal is completely stale at this point, you've lost appetite and are thinking about the money and time you've thrown away on this meal, but STILL NO SALT. So you are about to take up and leave when that person suddenly shouts: "hold on, don't go (and why are you so angry?) ! Here it is - what you asked and what you wanted!!!" - and they pass you a spare spoon. Naturally, you tell them to go f themselves, so they stand up and say:

"You are so negative, we just can't win with you, we tried so hard but anything we do is just not enough for you! I guess we can't win with everybody!"


RS, if you're reading - you've dropped the ball on this one, sincerely. Should've just passed the salt.

I'm glad you said salt instead of soap in the shower

[EdwardKiy]

So much doom in the YouTube comments regarding yesterday's livestream. Everyone appears to have concluded that Reason will become subscription only, even though they've specifically stated that the next full upgrade will be offered as a standalone purchase. It's also the only thing that makes sense from a business viewpoint.

Why would a company shake off its entire existing customer base, which for years has made numerous one-time purchases for upgrades and extensions? Question may come across naive, but by going subscription only they'd say goodbye to a considerable source of future income that subscriptions cannot replace, mainly because existing customers with several owned licences are unlikely to ever sign up for a subscription model just to have the latest features and plugins. Reason Studios will still need those one-time purchases from the old segment in order to maximize income going forward. No?

No.

More money constantly is better than less money once every year-and-a-half. It's every company's wet dream. If they had leverage to go sub-only - they would do it in a heartbeat. It's just not viable at the time, but as an option is good for attracting new customers as well as being a foot in the door for sub-only.

However, what got me and some others angry was not the implementation of Reason+.

[avasopht]

Losing Ignition support is the real news to complain about.

This little key has granted me a hot decade of convenience.

[EnochLight]

this is exactly the same kind of short sightedness that gets them into the situation of having to put out flame wars every time they make an announcement. I don’t mean that as an attack—it’s just a very defeatist viewpoint. humans are pretty smart at solving problems, and this isn’t even a particularly difficult one to solve.

We'll have to agree to disagree, as I didn't see anything in the past week or in yesterday's events that even remotely looked defeatist, nor short sighted. We all knew current users would rage about any sort of subscription announcement, regardless of how it was communicated, marketed, or otherwise slipped under user's pillow in the middle of the night. So how could they possibly have announced a subscription option any differently? Had they ignored existing users and just changed the website and ran some ads in places like KVR, Gearslutz, etc, and said nothing - do you honestly think the current user base would be any less enraged?

I dunno, I expect this thread to keep going on for pages and pages with people expressing rage and confusion, but when the dust settles hopefully we can all move on.

[Skimrok]

I still think they can save the day with subscription model at $15 dollars and a annual amount of $125, yes its less money but boy I reckon they get a positive hit in the long run , and then they can do the fixes what the old guard have asked for years , everybody wins

but being a bit greedy in the current climate IMO could cost them going forward , don't be stubborn just do the right thing now Reason Studio and you may win the day , I don't think I'm being short sighted here with this view they get a lot of respect in that old saying "we was wrong""

[exxx]

this is exactly the same kind of short sightedness that gets them into the situation of having to put out flame wars every time they make an announcement. I don’t mean that as an attack—it’s just a very defeatist viewpoint. humans are pretty smart at solving problems, and this isn’t even a particularly difficult one to solve.

We'll have to agree to disagree, as I didn't see anything in the past week or in yesterday's events that even remotely looked defeatist, nor short sighted. We all knew current users would rage about any sort of subscription announcement, regardless of how it was communicated, marketed, or otherwise slipped under user's pillow in the middle of the night. So how could they possibly have announced a subscription option any differently? Had they ignored existing users and just changed the website and ran some ads in places like KVR, Gearslutz, etc, and said nothing - do you honestly think the current user base would be any less enraged?

I dunno, I expect this thread to keep going on for pages and pages with people expressing rage and confusion, but when the dust settles hopefully we can all move on.

Even those who criticize subscriptions can say cool things.

But look at the reality, a small company that only fixes bugs without proper updates is focusing all its capabilities on other things.

What would it be?

While converting the refills to racks, try using the bitter energy to daw polish

If I had updated daw in the right direction, people wouldn't have said much even though they had subscribed.

[PhillipOrdonez]

The seed for this whole mess was planted in a point update, as a marketing plan. isnt that some fall from grace? To see now in hindsight how short sighted the team was. planning this out like wed see the companion and all sit with big kiddie eyes as they make their live stream announcement with cool mobile phone ceo guy. i find it amazing.

You are still focused on that assumption? What makes you believe so ardently that that was intended to be marketing? That's just functionality that needed to be in place for the new feature, man. Let it go.

[exxx]

It's a really stupid idea to think that the daw function is improving just because people just subscribe.

If there were any plans they would have already updated the daw.

Probably the real purpose of subscription is to increase short-term sales and increase corporate value to enter the merger and acquisition market?

Lastly, taking a bath is the purpose of this + plan.

[guitfnky]

We'll have to agree to disagree, as I didn't see anything in the past week or in yesterday's events that even remotely looked defeatist, nor short sighted. We all knew current users would rage about any sort of subscription announcement, regardless of how it was communicated, marketed, or otherwise slipped under user's pillow in the middle of the night. So how could they possibly have announced a subscription option any differently? Had they ignored existing users and just changed the website and ran some ads in places like KVR, Gearslutz, etc, and said nothing - do you honestly think the current user base would be any less enraged?

I dunno, I expect this thread to keep going on for pages and pages with people expressing rage and confusion, but when the dust settles hopefully we can all move on.

the short sightedness on RS part is not giving a thought to how announcements would be perceived by existing users. they stay laser focused on the target of whatever it is they’re doing and end up having to play clean up afterward.

to your question about how else they could have marketed it—there are TONS of tools and marketing techniques they could leverage to get things in front of the right eyes. yes, that could include ads elsewhere or something else entirely. a good marketing strategy could easily figure that out.

so, do I honestly think the current user base would be any less enraged? hell yeah, I do! if they’d been smart, they absolutely could have.

that doesn’t mean there wouldn’t be grumbling, and of course there are always going to be people on the edges who will shout to the high heavens about the unfairness of it all, no matter what, but the point is to manage expectations so the *overall* perception isn’t one of confusion and anger.

I agree, though, it will be good to move on and get this behind us. all I’m saying is that I REALLY hope RS takes a look at their communication and rollout strategies so they can help keep it from happening again. this was (at least) the second time their product managers had to come here to try to set people at ease due to blowback.

a project manager shouldn’t have to play counselor—that’s insane, to me.

[MFW]

We all knew current users would rage about any sort of subscription announcement, regardless of how it was communicated, marketed, or otherwise slipped under user's pillow in the middle of the night. So how could they possibly have announced a subscription option any differently? Had they ignored existing users and just changed the website and ran some ads in places like KVR, Gearslutz, etc, and said nothing - do you honestly think the current user base would be any less enraged?

No problem here with a subscription model, as long as it's an option.

That they've buried the standalones at the bottom of the page, and the two main Products links for Reason and Reason+ both take you to the Reason+ ie subscription page hints at a little dishonesty.
Not to mention that the entire blurb on the Reason main page is all about Reason+, as if that's the only option available.

A more honest approach would have been to list Reason+ on the Products page so it's right next to Standard and Suite as a third buying option - Standard £309 Suite $600 Reason+ $20/mo - not the main one.

Right now, it doesn't affect us. But who's to say it won't in due course?
I can't on one hand think of any business model where the licence and sub are offered. Usually they're mutually exclusive.
Time will tell. What a mess.

[EnochLight]

Even those who criticize subscriptions can say cool things.

But look at the reality, a small company that only fixes bugs without proper updates is focusing all its capabilities on other things.

What would it be?

And those who don't see an optional subscription service as a bad thing can say cool things as well. And what reality is that? Reason gets feature updates all of the time as well as bug fixes - it's been this way since inception. That's actual reality.

While converting the refills to racks, try using the bitter energy to daw polish

If I had updated daw in the right direction, people wouldn't have said much even though they had subscribed.

[Gothi]

So how could they possibly have announced a subscription option any differently?

Seriously? How about starting the promotion by hailing their fanbase and make a short review of how things have worked so far. Then a "but now we have yet an option..."? Instead they put the usual links down their site, which made their homepage look like a subscription gatekeeper to the rest of the stuff. Their YT vid went right on Reason + as if this was a new version by using the same to-the-point approach as any new version, also without review and clarification. Are you telling me that it has been physically impossible to make clarifying previews before presentation? Really? Did anyone point a gun to their head? Well, if RS suffers from the same lack of imagination and empathy you show here, no wonder the rage

[PhillipOrdonez]

Holy shit I can't stand that guy. Not gonna waste time listening to ANYTHING that guy says. There should be a warning to know it is him so I don't click it. Hell no. Come on danc, you tricked me, I feel bad after seeing his face. you're better than that, man

[diminished]

Holy shit I can't stand that guy. Not gonna waste time listening to ANYTHING that guy says. There should be a warning to know it is him so I don't click it. Hell no. Come on danc, you tricked me, I feel bad after seeing his face. you're better than that, man

this! and also (unrelated)

To the apologists still arguing with the ubercritics:

Would you please accept that the way RS introduced it was a terrible idea? Just look at the like-dislike numbers for christ's sake, or at the bars on top of this thread?

[Eisenspalter]

Reason Rack was a brilliant marketing move. But Reason+ is a marketing disaster. The livestream was really embarrassing. If they really thought of the users that everyone can afford Reason, as mentioned in the livestream, they would consider a Rent To Own model license for 16,99 USD like Studio One does.
Why don't they just tell the truth? Just say we want to make more money? And they will earn more money with Reason+, at least double one, compared to old update model. They canceled Reason (Rack) Into? Is that right?

[EnochLight]

I can't on one hand think of any business model where the licence and sub are offered. Usually they're mutually exclusive.

- PreSonus Studio One (with Sphere is a subscription, or you can buy Studio One sans Sphere as a perpetual license).
- Avid Pro Tools (the perpetual option only gets you 1 year of updates and support, BTW)
- Sound Forge Audio Studio

Those are three that come to mind that are actual DAW. Not sure if there's others.

[PhillipOrdonez]

Well, at least I was right about one thing: they're incorporating the shop within reason with companion. I called it! That's basically what it is, and it may be the shop for the rest of us too. Wait and see.

On the other hand:

This thread is sickening, full of rampant speculation and unfounded hypotheses, classic conspiracy theory thinking.

Some so blatant they think their limited empathy is something that applies to everyone and not just their flawed selves. Perdedor de mierda

Some are so entitled it is sad and pathetic.

Come on. Nobody likes the subscription bar a few, why waste so much time writing about it and making us all read your verbal diarrhea?

[esselfortium]

I can't on one hand think of any business model where the licence and sub are offered. Usually they're mutually exclusive.

- PreSonus Studio One (with Sphere is a subscription, or you can buy Studio One sans Sphere as a perpetual license).
- Avid Pro Tools (the perpetual option only gets you 1 year of updates and support, BTW)
- Sound Forge Audio Studio

Those are three that come to mind that are actual DAW. Not sure if there's others.

Substance Designer is another piece of pro creative software that offers both a perpetual and subscription option, though it isn't a DAW. The perpetual licenses are sold as annual versions and give you updates and support for the year. Sounds similar to the Pro Tools arrangement.

[EnochLight]

Well, it RS suffer from the same lack of imagination and empathy you show here, no wonder the rage.

Empathy for what? The fact that current users are affected literally in NO WAY by an optional service, or the fact that people are more interested in creating imaginary scenarios of "what if" than the current reality?

[Loque]

Losing Ignition support is the real news to complain about.

This little key has granted me a hot decade of convenience.

I am sure, there will be something coming. But licensing is a difficult task. It is a mix between security, convenience for the user and not to get ripped off. Any combination of user, computer, other ppl and other computers might be possible...

[Popey]

Hit the nail on the head. Sphere is about £14 a month includes collaboration with other users and the last version 5 included the majority of improvements in their users most frequently requested posts. I still think reason has better instruments but other areas it is sadly lacking. Highest I have seen reason in best top 10 daw online lists is 5th. Others offering cheaper subs are higher in these lists and appear to listen to their users requests so not sure why you would choose what appears to be the more expensive and worse ranked option if you are new to creating music.

Both a Studio one and Reason user.. I think Reason + is a better option as far as subscriptions go. The added content in Sphere pales in comparison. Cloud collaboration is nice if you’re consistently working with other users with the same DAW on a team maybe, but is negligible beyond that IMO. We get live streams for free, and expert chat = ReasonTalk pretty much.

I’m not saying the pricing is perfect, but Reason+ offers something on the same level if not better than Splice as well as a DAW/plugin to use the content in. It’s definitely more valuable.

Sure S1 is more feature rich, but I use them interchangeably. I rarely miss one when using the other.

The more I think about this I realise my view was narrowed to just why any new user would choose reason as a daw if they were new, didnt know a reason user and looked at people's views online for info.I neglected to view this from the instruments/fx side that a rack plugin user on another daw would consider. This I suppose for some that want all the re's in their daw of choice may be worth £20 a month like a P.A bundle etc.

Would I be right in thinking subscription or full reason will soon be the only way to get the rack plugin now? Obviously a lot will have picked it up recently but anyone who hasn't but wishes to in the future can get it through sub.

[Gothi]

Empathy for what?

You really have to ask? Really? Empathy for the possible misunderstandings that could arise if they did not clarify the status of former uses before presenting what finally seemed to be an option only and not a paradigm shift. You simply think that RS could not have presented this more carefully and caringly to their usual base? That what they did was the only possible option in all possible worlds? In that case, we are far beyond beyond fanboism and heading for true madness in form of absurd fatalism: RS had no other choice! Come on, man. You cannot be serious. Call it a slip of the mind and let it go, but plz don't try to argue. It is deemed to fail.

[guitfnky]

Losing Ignition support is the real news to complain about.

This little key has granted me a hot decade of convenience.

I am sure, there will be something coming. But licensing is a difficult task. It is a mix between security, convenience for the user and not to get ripped off. Any combination of user, computer, other ppl and other computers might be possible...

maybe with all that extra subscription $ coming in, they can worry less about that getting ripped off part, and eliminate authentication altogether.

[bxbrkrz]

Losing Ignition support is the real news to complain about.

This little key has granted me a hot decade of convenience.

I am sure, there will be something coming. But licensing is a difficult task. It is a mix between security, convenience for the user and not to get ripped off. Any combination of user, computer, other ppl and other computers might be possible...

Reason Studios should create something like Steam Guard for your phone. I don't know how, but it could be great for people with Reason+ on the road, motels, etc.
Turn your phone into an ignition key.