Reason updates (11.3.7 / 11.3.8) and Reason+

[plaamook]

Another Synth RE!!!!!
I've got tears of joy streaming down my face!!!!!

What will it be, maybe an FM synth? it's about the only one they haven't got (that's just dedicated to that synthesis type, sorry they did, PX7 but...

Subtractor - Subtractive
Thor - Everything
Malstrom - Graintable
NN-19 / NN-XT - Samplers
Parsec - Additive
Europa - Spectral Morphing / Wavetable
Friktion - Physical Modelling

Maybe it's be a really top class Rompler akin to Nexus or FL's FLEX?

I don’t have a clue. I was being sarcastic. Im a sample dude!

[Kilsane]

In fact, you want to compete with the Loopcloud Professional offer? admit
Add a small cloud Storage and it's a win

[rorystorm]

Yup to both those things. Installed using the companion app - is that a subtle dr who reference? And in fact downloaded the newest version of reason just now.....

[Kuranes2021]

Wow. This morning, going to www.Reasonstudios.com was a sobering punch into my stomach. Because, from the first look, it looked like as if Reason was from now on subscription only. And pardon my french, this seriously p***ed me off.

I don't know the exact numbers, but being a Reason User from Reason 4 on, having bought every update since then except Reason 7, but including Reason 11 Suite, and plus that countless RE's, I paid at least about 6.000 Euros for Reason and REs. Just in 2020, I bought Reason Suite, Evolution, Sequences, Friktion,Torsion, Autosub, ES400, Pattern Mutator, Obsession, Tribute, most of them full price.


And when the Propellerheads reaped a full-blown shitstorm from countless users when Reason 10 was released, because their numerous expectations were once again not met, I was one of the few who vocally defended the Propellerheads.

So it's obvious, I am not a user, who is just casually interested in Reason. This pogramme, and the music I made with it, seriously means something to me.

And from that perspective, I'll tell you this, Owners of REASON STUDIOS:

If you go "subscription only", it would be the end of Reason. Why? Because you wouldn't get enough new Reason subscribers to compensate for the loss of Reason whales like me who'll leave in droves because they'll feel betrayed.

And why wouldn't you get enough new reason Users? Because with that move, you'll equally betray the 3rd party devs, that played a big part in making Reason unique, albeit it's flaws. (In fact, that betrayal already might have happened, considering the first posts of 3rd party devs in this thread)


They too will leave in droves, when they won't make enough money to keep their ship afloat.
And without new toys, what will Reason be?

An effing museum.

But it's mostly dinsosaurs like me who appreciate old things, so... REASON Owners, be wise, be wise...


(Edit: to be clear: i have no problem with a subscription model in general. I am happy for everyone whose situation improves because of the subscription model. I am only against an "subscription only" solution.)

[guitfnky]

just ran a couple of numbers out of curiosity...

-assume a new major version comes out every 1.5 years
-assume a standard $130 upgrade fee for existing users
-assume sound packs/refills isn’t a major selling point for most users

look at costs over 5 years...

Haha, hypothetical math! I love it! For fairness you're not assuming any hypothetical Rack Extenions, though, and we have released and will release more of those. But again, and this is worth reiterating since it was perhaps unclear, the normal perpetual license is not gone. You can still stay with that.

yes, totally right. I just meant to point out that with that kind of $ saving, there’s more flexibility to still buy the REs/players that you want without necessarily spending as much.

of course there are way too many variables and considerations to make a comprehensive analysis using napkin math like that, but it was just a surprising difference for me.

[Creativemind]

Just what I was thinking. Nearly 19 pages on a forum later with this speculation and that speculation and all's it is is a subscription model (which I'm not against as long as they don't take away the usual upgrade method) just so you can access more instruments, more sounds. WHY WHY WHY do we need more dounds, more instruments? Not interested in subscribing. It's like giving a very overweight kid free access to the sweet shop when really, learning to eat the right sweets at the right time in moderation would be better. Lol!

Well said! Getting access to more sounds and more devices isn't the most important thing when making music. Sure, a cool patch can inspire a song but can you just keep chucking more sounds on it until it's a full song?

No is the short answer lol! it gets overcrowded. I have one song which is overcrowded with sounds but kept it that way due to it fitting in with the essence and title of the song. Thought it worked.

But that was a guitar song. For electronic music for me personally it's having the right sounds. I've pretty much resigned to the fact that some sounds can't be replicated digitally. I want to save up for more analogue gear.

Within the mix they can sound decent but if that sound is the sound that starts the track off, you can tell in it's timbre and overall. The most important thing for me now is functionality within the daw. Reason is at least 50 features light.

[Faastwalker]

I can't wait to hear and see that fake enthusiasm.

He’s got his work cut out with this one that’s for sure. Trying to make something that the majority of Reason users didn’t want and could do without. Good luck with that. I wouldn’t want that job for all the tea in China Ryan trying to make Reason+ sound good;

[guitfnky]

just ran a couple of numbers out of curiosity...

-assume a new major version comes out every 1.5 years
-assume a standard $130 upgrade fee for existing users
-assume sound packs/refills isn’t a major selling point for most users

look at costs over 5 years...

license purchase:
3.33 major upgrades in that time * $130 = $433.33

Reason+ subscription:
$20 * 12 months * 5 years - $120 discount for existing owners = $1080

cost difference: $646.67 savings

that’s almost $650 you can save by sticking with a normal license purchase, and of course you can then pick and choose whether you need that shiny new RS player or synth.

You need to consider the RE from RS in your calculation, if you are interested in them for sure...

yep, just pointing out that $650 savings will buy you several such REs over the course of 5 years, and you can avoid the ones you don’t need.

[xylyx]

I am looking forward to the update reason will have later this year
I might try the subscription plan and try out some gears even though I have enought

Doing a track with a synth or fx I don't have I have to bounce it before stoping the subscription

At least we now know that the next update to Reason is going to be paid for:

Yes, we are working on a major update to Reason to come later this year that will include high resolution graphics, workflow enhancements and some new devices, too. We’ll price it similarly to how we have before for the perpetual license owners.

I was considering coming back to Reason fully, hoping that it would get VST3 and VST midi support in a free update. Obviously, that's not happening and I doubt that the R12 upgrade will bring enough to the table beyond the HiRes thing, which I have no interest in, to justify the upgrade cost.

So, I will move on with the RRP and save my upgrade money for Bitwig's updates instead - I have enough content and plugins already and am not interested in any subscription that leaves you owning nothing at the end of it.

[linusminus]

Don't mind a subscription model. All I want is some real updates to the DAW soon--it's been far too long. Improved delay compensation would be great so I don't have to bounce and think twice each time I use heavy plugins and want to automate (as the sequencer alignment will be off).

How many years has it been since the last BIG update? Not counting the most recent one that only added like 5 workflow improvements.

[WasteLand]

Reason will still offer paid standalone upgrades for future major releases. Isn't that all that should matter to veteran users?

Which point am I missing in all the disappointed comments?

i think the unpredictability. what the future brings; subscription only. i will not go down that road.
but that is not certain.

i think that is disappointment, and site has completely taken over by reason+, understable, to attract new customers, but navigating for existing customers, becomes tedious.

a subscription model like kilohearts does, seems to me better.. although, i wouldn't do it. mainly, i don't need it.. (great stuff kilohearts, i have my own alternatives, yes also one that has a subscription model, but what you pay, you don't loose, you can use it buy it eventually... didn't go the subscription road, did the buy road, and upgrade for prices that are near to nothing. life time updates included...).

subscription models, NI did try it out, not really, but some rumours, don't know if they were facts. that they thought about it.

i went from adobe to affinity. for example.

it is the uncertainty factor. friktion is now included in reason+ for example, still you can rent-to-own it, but in a sale in a future, it could be half price..

of course sometimes rent-to-own or a subscription is what individual needs or likes.

[DaveyG]

I can't wait to hear and see that fake enthusiasm.

He’s got his work cut out with this one that’s for sure. Trying to make something that the majority of Reason users didn’t want and could do without. Good kick with that

It's not about current users. They already have our money. It's about new users. The current Reason demographic is older users. They need to appeal to the FL Studio generation.

[jamespember]

Yeah I like the idea of combinator chains weekly, but sample packs bores me silly...

Just to be clear, the Reason+ packs are just that. They aren't samples, they're patches - mostly combis.

[tt_lab]

...
And from that perspective, I'll tell you this, Owners of REASON STUDIOS:

If you go "subscription only", it would be the end of Reason. Why? Because you wouldn't get enough new Reason subscribers to compensate for the loss of Reason whales like me who'll leave in droves because they'll feel betrayed.

And why wouldn't you get enough new reason Users? Because with that move, you'll equally betray the 3rd party devs, that played a big part in making Reason unique, albeit it's flaws. (In fact, that betrayal already might have happened, considering the first posts of 3rd party devs in this thread)

They too will leave in droves, when they won't make enough money to keep their ship afloat.
And without new toys, what will Reason be?

An effing museum.

But it's mostly dinsosaurs like me who appreciate old things, so... REASON Owners, be wise, be wise...

And don't forget what part we've played as reason banner carriers, I defended reason aginst some peers using logic and FL and online too. And demonstrate that it was the best DAW. If we jump ships that is going to be no more

[jamespember]

And we think Reason's BIG superpower, compared to say, Splice or Arcade is that Reason is a sound design machine. The best music has always been unique, and we think Reason can give a music maker the tools to sound unique, hence Sound Like You.

Perhaps my "marketing" hat is sitting a little too tight, but I do believe this and think Reason+ can vastly expand the number of Reason users out there. And that can ONLY be a good thing for you all, the hardcore fans who want us to invest more in the core product.

I think this is somewhat telling that you see Arcade and Splice as the competition and not other DAWS. It's disappointing seeing Reason being slowly turned into a lame content delivery service.

You guys keep saying that each new non-core addition (RRP, now +) is a good thing for core users but core users haven't seen much in the past couple years. I hope you guys are going to deliver on this "good for core users" thing pretty soon. If there aren't a decent amount of sequencer and general workflow improvements in 12 it's gonna look really bad to us "hardcore fans" that, would you believe it, actually want to use your product.

(And no, I don't consider HD graphics to be a "core improvement" - that's just something you guys need to do to stay usable in modern setups)

We have lots of competitors. Ableton, Logic, Pro Tools, Splice, Arcade, Netflix, reading a book, playing guitar. Those are all competitors to spending time in Reason. I think you're being too harsh here. Nothing in this release says anything about us becoming a content delivery service. The service is called Reason+. It's Reason, always up to date, every device we ever make and some great sound packs on top to help people explore the rack and our vast array of devices.

[Tiny Montgomery]

He’s got his work cut out with this one that’s for sure. Trying to make something that the majority of Reason users didn’t want and could do without. Good kick with that

It's not about current users. They already have our money. It's about new users. The current Reason demographic is older users. They need to appeal to the FL Studio generation.

Yes this is it.

[DaveyG]

You need to consider the RE from RS in your calculation, if you are interested in them for sure...

yep, just pointing out that $650 savings will buy you several such REs over the course of 5 years, and you can avoid the ones you don’t need.

The key is that the non-subscription is (relatively) permanent. Buy once, use forever. Once you start a subscription you have to keep it going forever or lose the tools. Which is why businesses love subs models!

[jamespember]

Well said! Getting access to more sounds and more devices isn't the most important thing when making music. Sure, a cool patch can inspire a song but can you just keep chucking more sounds on it until it's a full song?

No is the short answer lol! it gets overcrowded. I have one song which is overcrowded with sounds but kept it that way due to it fitting in with the essence and title of the song. Thought it worked.

But that was a guitar song. For electronic music for me personally it's having the right sounds. I've pretty much resigned to the fact that some sounds can't be replicated digitally. I want to save up for more analogue gear.

Within the mix they can sound decent but if that sound is the sound that starts the track off, you can tell in it's timbre and overall. The most important thing for me now is functionality within the daw. Reason is at least 50 features light.

We'll talk more about this tonight and over the coming weeks, but the sound packs are really about helping people explore the reason rack and all our devices. Perhaps the sound designers does something you wouldn't have yourself? Or you find a new way of using a device? We think it's a fun, creative and inspiring way to keep your ears fresh and try new things!

[tt_lab]

He’s got his work cut out with this one that’s for sure. Trying to make something that the majority of Reason users didn’t want and could do without. Good kick with that

It's not about current users. They already have our money. It's about new users. The current Reason demographic is older users. They need to appeal to the FL Studio generation.

Trying to appeal the FL generation is getting me to FL

[xylyx]

He’s got his work cut out with this one that’s for sure. Trying to make something that the majority of Reason users didn’t want and could do without. Good kick with that

It's not about current users. They already have our money. It's about new users. The current Reason demographic is older users. They need to appeal to the FL Studio generation.

Problem is that the core part of the DAW, the sequencer, is lacking so many functions and features that FLS and Live etc have - you need more than a bunch of synths and sounds to make them change from what they know, especially for the amount of money being asked for...plus, FLS is a one time entry fee.

[nickb523]

I'm genuinely concerned about the future of RE's and ReFills. Why has the shop front end been hidden in the footer? Why isn't the shop part of the companion app?

This isn't looking good for developers.

Nick @ SKP

[nbot]

I'm genuinely concerned about the future of RE's and ReFills. Why has the shop front end been hidden in the footer? Why isn't the shop part of the companion app?

This isn't looking good for developers.

Nick @ SKP

Were you guys (devs) aware of the incoming Reason+ changes?

[jamespember]

Perhaps my "marketing" hat is sitting a little too tight, but I do believe this and think Reason+ can vastly expand the number of Reason users out there. And that can ONLY be a good thing for you all, the hardcore fans who want us to invest more in the core product.

This is the big thing for me. I'm generally not massively into subscription services for software, but I can absolutely see the appeal for (and frequently dip into) sound-pack and content subscription services. Regardless of whether or not I find a use for it, I think Reason+ is going to attract more users, which can only be a good thing for folks like me who want to see Reason develop further. So long as perpetual licenses remain a thing then that's just fine by me.

Basically - if it means more stuff like Beat Map/Pattern Mutator/Friktion in the future then I am absolutely a-ok with that!

That's the idea!

[certifiedbeatz]

After buy reason suite when it was released and now discontinued and now I have to purchase a subscription ever month or year for patches I may never use? I guess I'll watch later with an open mind but no vote for me so far..

[Billy+]

Anyone got a screenshot of the companion app they want to share?

I'm not updating till vst midi is included