Comping multi mic takes

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pepe444
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Post 22 Nov 2020

I believe this is not possible in Reason 11 but is there a way to make comps of a multi mic´ed instrument in Reason ?
I have 3 microphones on the acoustic guitar and need to make a comp out of it, one by one is unpractical ..
Thanks

madmacman
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Post 22 Nov 2020

Assuming, the 3 microphone recordings are on separate tracks? Then maybe this info might help you:

viewtopic.php?t=7495050

But try it with copies of your recordings! ;)

pepe444
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Post 22 Nov 2020

Thanks for your reply.
Read the post you indicated, that is not the point. i have 3 armed tracks , ready to record a few guitar takes of one passage. After all takes are done i want to make a comp out of it. If i join the tracks into a single track i loose all the purpose of recording an acoustic instrument with multiple microphones. joining the clips is not an option.

Creating copies of the recording is not too for the same exact reason.
When you place a microphone close to the bridge it doesnt have the same sound of the microphone of the body, for example. Thats why sometimes you do multi microphone on a single instrument.
Being able to link channels , link edits and linking comp editing on multiple tracks is so important. I´ve been digging it this case all afternoon and found that reason is not good at this. The only option was to bounce a stereo track and record the live instruments on another daw...
Sad that a 500€ software is not able of simple and basic recording and editing things.

madmacman
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Post 22 Nov 2020

Ok, sorry. Seems like I didn’t get what you want to achieve.

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buddard
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Post 22 Nov 2020

pepe444 wrote:
22 Nov 2020
I believe this is not possible in Reason 11 but is there a way to make comps of a multi mic´ed instrument in Reason ?
I have 3 microphones on the acoustic guitar and need to make a comp out of it, one by one is unpractical ..
Thanks
Not possible right now, I'm afraid.

This is one of my biggest remaining gripes with Reason. I think it would be awesome if they could introduce some kind of group/folder tracks that you can edit as a single track, including comp edit!

What I've done so far is to record the guitar with 2 mics, and then pan them hard left/right so I can comp them as a single stereo track, and then route each side to a separate channel in the mixer. It's not ideal, but it works.

But this kind of workaround won't help you if you want to comp takes of a complete drum kit, of course...

pepe444
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Post 22 Nov 2020

buddard wrote:
22 Nov 2020
pepe444 wrote:
22 Nov 2020
I believe this is not possible in Reason 11 but is there a way to make comps of a multi mic´ed instrument in Reason ?
I have 3 microphones on the acoustic guitar and need to make a comp out of it, one by one is unpractical ..
Thanks
Not possible right now, I'm afraid.

This is one of my biggest remaining gripes with Reason. I think it would be awesome if they could introduce some kind of group/folder tracks that you can edit as a single track, including comp edit!

What I've done so far is to record the guitar with 2 mics, and then pan them hard left/right so I can comp them as a single stereo track, and then route each side to a separate channel in the mixer. It's not ideal, but it works.

But this kind of workaround won't help you if you want to comp takes of a complete drum kit, of course...
Exactly. This needs to be improved.
Thanks for all your replies.

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syncanonymous
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Post 11 Dec 2020

I was just looking for an answer to this.
Yeah, using multiple mics on a single instrument is normal operation in studio recording workflow.

We need a way to apply the comps from one track to a different track.

In my case I'm recording acoustic guitar with 2 mics. The mic combination equals a better timbre...just like if on drum overheads.

So, if I understand, it isn't possible beyond manually jumping through the hoops:
***EDIT: skip to my later posts for the workaround better explained
I will leave my thinking process in the evnt it helps someone***


enter comp edit mode on mic 1;
set playhead or other marker to cut point;
enter comp edit mode in track for mic 2;
razor cut;
apply fade if req'd;
then next mic track if you have more;
or: back to step one


surely this is easily implemented. no?

therefore, use a different method;

Don't get me wrong, I dig Reason's comp edit mode....and use it a lot
this would really help

similar to editing multiple midi tracks in Edit Mode which we had asked for for many years
Last edited by syncanonymous on 22 Dec 2020, edited 5 times in total.

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syncanonymous
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Post 11 Dec 2020

OK, seems like it is possible to copy the cuts and cross fades from one track to another

just select the cuts on the source track and copy>
then enter comp edit mode on the destination track and paste

but it doesn't seem to work ... hmmmm
***EDIT: It does work; just have to ensure SNAP is OFF and Line up destination first cut to source first cut- better explained later in this thread***
Last edited by syncanonymous on 22 Dec 2020, edited 2 times in total.

pepe444
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Post 12 Dec 2020

Yop. Reason needs to take this things serious..imo

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syncanonymous
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Post 14 Dec 2020

Yeah, the only way I can see doing this currently is:
***EDIT: This does "work", but not very efficient***

1- create a new track
2- copy the uncomped clip to the new track
3- copy the comped tack on top of the uncomped track
4- drag clip handle to the cut or just beyond
5- cut the uncomped clip and apply cross fade (a marker could be placed (start of loop, maybe?)
repeat until you have all you cuts; it would then be easier to choose the takes in a single track than all the clicks required to go from comp edit on one track to another


then either move the newly comped clip to its original track...or just delete the comp guide clip ...or whatever

yes, Reason should already do this easily! It means approaching a project in a different way maybe...but with pro audio, multiple mics on a single source is the norm!
Last edited by syncanonymous on 22 Dec 2020, edited 3 times in total.

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motuscott
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Post 14 Dec 2020

Big plus one as a guy who records 7 or 8 tracks of drumkit at a time. This and punch in.
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syncanonymous
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Post 14 Dec 2020

Yeah, OK, so my previous workflow I suggested doesn't work
What will be the trickiest part is choosing which takes after copying and pasting the cuts and crossfades

Here's what I have working (that I am sure you others who've been wrestling with this already know)
***BEGIN EDIT
also, to clarify I am on Reason 10

1- create a new track
2- copy the uncomped clip to the new track
3- copy the comped track on top of the uncomped track

ok... I'll clear this up:
01- (optional) Duplicate uncomped TRACK (for safety); this is the "destination" track
02- enter comp edit mode for the comped track (this is the "source" track)
03- set the playhead at the first cut location in the timeline in the uncomped/ source track !!important do not move the playhead; it is a marker required for a later step!!
04- select all the cuts and crossfades (however you like to do that; left click the first one>shift+lft clk the last one is how I typically do this)
05- enter comp edit mode for the uncomped clip (ensure the playhead is where you want the first cut to be located!) Playhead location has no bearing on where in the timeline the cuts and crossfades paste in the destination track
06- ensure SNAP is set to OFF!!!
07- paste the copied cuts !!important do not move the playhead!!
08- select all the cuts and crossfades (set your zoom and location to enable to see the first cut just copied and the playhead)
09- left-click+drag first cut to playhead location; TAKES will not transfer in the copy/paste action
10- manually highlight takes

you still have to toggle between comp edit modes per clip to select the takes, tho :|
which is time consuming
***END EDIT

it really, REALLY should be simpler than that!!!

bloody logged me out while writing that up!!! good thing I pasted to a text doc before clicking submit!!
Last edited by syncanonymous on 22 Dec 2020, edited 3 times in total.

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mcatalao
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Post 15 Dec 2020

motuscott wrote:
14 Dec 2020
Big plus one as a guy who records 7 or 8 tracks of drumkit at a time. This and punch in.
Man, i'm complaining about auto punch in since we have Record! But since most Reason users are EDM and related genres who almost don't record real people playing this kind of stuff is never asked.

Anyway, if you're recording a source like a guitar, you can put the 2 mics as source for a single guitar stereo track and make the cuts on the stereo track comp editor, and if in the end you need it in dual modo, just separate them with 2 mixer channels.

For drums, tbh, i like to comp instrument by instrument. It's a bit slow but some cuts can't be the same because of tails and such things. I think i would never do it like that, as a lot of things are happening at the same time, and even if you want to cut most of the drum kit at the same time, you have to go check tails an ins and outs and stuff like that. Better treat the kit as separated stuff. Though i see the benefit of the function and it would be a great addition for live recordings.

pepe444
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Joined: 29 Jul 2020

Post 15 Dec 2020

mcatalao wrote:
15 Dec 2020
motuscott wrote:
14 Dec 2020
Big plus one as a guy who records 7 or 8 tracks of drumkit at a time. This and punch in.
Man, i'm complaining about auto punch in since we have Record! But since most Reason users are EDM and related genres who almost don't record real people playing this kind of stuff is never asked.

Anyway, if you're recording a source like a guitar, you can put the 2 mics as source for a single guitar stereo track and make the cuts on the stereo track comp editor, and if in the end you need it in dual modo, just separate them with 2 mixer channels.

For drums, tbh, i like to comp instrument by instrument. It's a bit slow but some cuts can't be the same because of tails and such things. I think i would never do it like that, as a lot of things are happening at the same time, and even if you want to cut most of the drum kit at the same time, you have to go check tails an ins and outs and stuff like that. Better treat the kit as separated stuff. Though i see the benefit of the function and it would be a great addition for live recordings.
Yes, seems like it´s not a frequent request. It should be easier for the "others" too.

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syncanonymous
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Post 19 Dec 2020

mcatalao wrote:
15 Dec 2020
Anyway, if you're recording a source like a guitar, you can put the 2 mics as source for a single guitar stereo track and make the cuts on the stereo track comp editor, and if in the end you need it in dual modo, just separate them with 2 mixer channels.
at first I was like, what is the "stereo track comp editor".
Will this work if the recorded source is not already stereo? If so, that seems an acceptable workaround...doesn't seem like it...prolly hafta bounce
I'd really, really rather not comp stereo clips with different performances, thanks!
talk about an easy way to get lost!

seems like there is good reason to try and handle this in the Song View; cross fades will be much more difficult...muting and unmuting tracks as well gonna suck up time...just like any other DAW

altho it is possible to use the workaround I described before

pepe444
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Post 20 Dec 2020

Hi guys, ye there is always workarounds. Unfortunately when you have more than 2 microphones (usual case for drums and most acoustic instruments i do record) editing is a pain in Reason. Hope the devs can address this in a near future.

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mcatalao
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Post 20 Dec 2020

syncanonymous wrote:
19 Dec 2020

Will this work if the recorded source is not already stereo?
I don't think so, my example is for the exact same performance, and you should set up the stereo recording "à priori". I don't think it is usefull for drums.

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syncanonymous
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Post 21 Dec 2020

mcatalao wrote:
20 Dec 2020
syncanonymous wrote:
19 Dec 2020

Will this work if the recorded source is not already stereo?
I don't think so, my example is for the exact same performance, and you should set up the stereo recording "à priori". I don't think it is usefull for drums.
I am talking about the exact same performance on multiple mics

as I said, it should be possible to bounce and use your proposed workaround for 2 mics after recording mono tracks,
It's just not a workaround I am sold on...
I think my workaround (copy>paste comp edit cuts and crossfades from track to track) is more efficient both with time to carry out the tasks and drive space

I don't know about drums...I'd probably edit that many mics per track in Song Mode with busses per take :-/
pretty much just as cumbersome as comp edit....at least all the mics could be seen in one window
it really depends upon how many takes
2 or 3...ok
7-10? Yikes!

pepe444
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Post 21 Dec 2020

The problem is that reason in its current state is not meant for this kind of recording or editing. Period.
Maybe in a near future , who knows, the Team of Reason studios will approach this which i doubt. Reason is more intended for sequenced music and not for recording / editing real world instruments.

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motuscott
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Post 21 Dec 2020

But but
What about my needs?
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syncanonymous
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Post 21 Dec 2020

OK, my workaround does work fine;

It is clear that this condition of one comp edit per track is sensible from the devs POV:
imagine if you have 7 mic tracks with 7 takes
you are gonna have a mess!

My workaround is fine; the biggest problem is being required to double click into comp edit mode each time you switch tracks

it would be better if it was possible to copy and paste the cuts and xfades from one track to another easily
for example:
carry out your cuts and xfades;
right click on that "master" comp track> copy;
select destination track(s) and paste
and the paste would retain the chosen takes and cut timings
but Reason doesn't currently work like that

nevertheless; it is possible to copy and paste comp edit cuts and xfades from one track to another; albeit somewhat time consuming :-)

you must paste source track cuts and xfades to destination track(s):
mark the first cut in the source track (I use the playhead)>
paste copied source track cuts and xfades to destination track(s)>
select all the cut flags>
lftClk+drag to line up the first cut of copied cuts and xfades to the playhead in the destination track
then select takes

***EDIT
I updated my workaround in an above post
It actually works pretty well once you get the hang of it***
Last edited by syncanonymous on 22 Dec 2020, edited 1 time in total.

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syncanonymous
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Post 22 Dec 2020

motuscott wrote:
14 Dec 2020
Big plus one as a guy who records 7 or 8 tracks of drumkit at a time. This and punch in.
I was churning through the Keyboard Shortcuts yesterday.
Press [*] in number pad and this is a punch in, no?
Or do you want the punch in to record to new LANES?
or...

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selig
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Post 22 Dec 2020

syncanonymous wrote:
22 Dec 2020
motuscott wrote:
14 Dec 2020
Big plus one as a guy who records 7 or 8 tracks of drumkit at a time. This and punch in.
I was churning through the Keyboard Shortcuts yesterday.
Press [*] in number pad and this is a punch in, no?
Or do you want the punch in to record to new LANES?
or...
You want the punch in to happen WITHOUT having to have a spare hand to hit a key/button, preferably after a user defined amount of playback (aka: pre-roll). You know, like almost every tape machine from the 1980s on, and every MIDI sequencer and DAW since that same time period except for one…
Selig Audio, LLC

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motuscott
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Post 22 Dec 2020

syncanonymous wrote:
22 Dec 2020
motuscott wrote:
14 Dec 2020
Big plus one as a guy who records 7 or 8 tracks of drumkit at a time. This and punch in.
I was churning through the Keyboard Shortcuts yesterday.
Press [*] in number pad and this is a punch in, no?
Or do you want the punch in to record to new LANES?
or...
I think you're right. Guess I'm asking for auto punch where you're monitoring existing tracks until punch in, then you're monitoring the overdub till punch out. All on the same 'lane' is how we did it back in the tape days.
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guitfnky
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Post 22 Dec 2020

manual punching in is fun when you’re recording other people. love doing it when I’m recording our bassist/other guitarist/keyboardist, but it’s pretty infuriating to not have auto punch when recording by myself IN 2020.

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