Behringer Swing

Want to talk about music hardware or software that doesn't include Reason?
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guitfnky
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Post 23 Nov 2020

Koshdukai wrote:
23 Nov 2020
diminished wrote:
23 Nov 2020
let's face it, plastic MIDI controllers
The KeyStep line isn't just "a MIDI controller". There are way cheaper alternatives if all you want/need is a plastic MIDI controller.

Behringer cloned it because KeySteps were becoming ubiquitous on many euro-rack or desktop modules sets, which they sell, so, it's yet another piece of the market they want to grab.
guitfnky wrote:
23 Nov 2020
who cares if it’s a clone? you don’t have to buy it. not any different than cloning guitar pedals and selling them at lower prices (Behringer isn’t the first to do that either—not by a long shot).

some people don’t have boatloads of extra cash to drop on tHe ReAl tHiNg. if you do, that’s awesome—but nobody cares. :lol:
The sad thing is that here's a great opportunity to differentiate through evolution/improvement but that seemed to be too much work for them.
It's quite a shitty way to save on R&D which Behringer clearly have, besides manufacturing capabilities.

One thing is to champion "hard-to-get/unavailable synth classics for the masses", another is to do 1:1 copies of products still being sold today by active companies that do their own R&D and need a steady stream of revenue to continue coming up with new original stuff.
sure, they could differentiate, but they don’t really need to—there’s plenty of market there for a straight clone. and TBH, I don’t think they’re even going to eat much into Arturia’s sales on this. it’s $30 less—hardly a lot. it’s not like getting a good analog synth for $500 instead of a $2500 Moog.

yes, it’s the principle, I know—I just don’t see this as any different than what anyone else does. sort of like this:
81CB3A41-A3FF-4D80-8455-5867963992DD.jpeg
:lol:

is it chincy? sure. but again, ultimately no different than buying a knockoff guitar pedal. and (another) again, the companies they’re cloning from aren’t hurting for business.
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fieldframe
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Post 23 Nov 2020

Koshdukai wrote:
23 Nov 2020
The sad thing is that here's a great opportunity to differentiate through evolution/improvement but that seemed to be too much work for them.
This is the crux of it. It's frustrating and embarrassing to see a company that clearly has the capability to design forward-thinking hardware like the Neutron come out and do something like this.

So the KeyStep has become the de facto controller for modular – what if Behringer did a little UX research to see how modular users are using it? Where does it come up short? Arturia took it in one direction with the KeyStep Pro; what if Behringer took it in another? Just off the top of my head, how about a grid for storing and launching different patterns?

Or here's one: clone two things at once. Clone the MicroFreak's touch keyboard, but graft it onto the cloned KeyStep, with extra CV outputs. Instant new product.

It's just disheartening to see such a waste.
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bxbrkrz
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Post 23 Nov 2020

Image

Just when I thought I was out not liking Behringer
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O1B
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Post 23 Nov 2020

Key step. X32. Check :thumbs_up:

Now, the Behringer Swing :redface: :question:
... info? Images? Links? Thoughts on the Design? ... :question:

Or, do we need another Thread for that? :redface:

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Koshdukai
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Post 24 Nov 2020

eusti wrote:
23 Nov 2020
I read somewhere that Behringer licensed Swing from the same people that Arturia licensed from...
Not sure if that is correct though... Might be smart for Behringer to come out with an official statement rather sooner than later...
Here's what the industrial designer Axel Hartmann had to say about this


Here's what the (ex-Arturia, now ASM) product designer Glen Darcey had to say about it


So, it would be extremely interesting to know where did you read that "licensing" rumor, since the BeatStep/KeyStep line was all internal(+Hartmann) design and development by Arturia and obviously external (under-contract) manufacturing in Shenzhen, China, where 80% of tech is being manufactured nowadays.

DaveyG
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Post 24 Nov 2020

Haha. Some of your guys will get upset about anything. Behringer have always made cheap copies of things. If you don't like it, don't buy it. You ain't gonna change the world by complaining about it on this forum.

EdGrip
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Post 24 Nov 2020

Do you apply that logic to everything in the whole world, or just Behringer? I look forward to you not complaining about anything at all on this forum.

I'm expressing that I don't like it, and won't be buying it.

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Koshdukai
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Post 24 Nov 2020

DaveyG wrote:
24 Nov 2020
Haha. Some of your guys will get upset about anything. Behringer have always made cheap copies of things. If you don't like it, don't buy it. You ain't gonna change the world by complaining about it on this forum.
So... what are these forums for? :D

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guitfnky
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Post 24 Nov 2020

they responded:

https://community.musictribe.com/discus ... IF7WuzrSBQ

not that it’ll silence any of the squeaks, but it seems they haven’t just put out a verbatim copy, after all. no surprise there (to me, anyway).
The follower marketing strategy is a very common business model in any industry, which is enabled by law to encourage competition. With our new Swing MIDI Controller, we followed an established concept, but of course wrote our own firmware with added functionality. However, these unique features will only come to life when we launch our free DAW.

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guitfnky
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Post 24 Nov 2020

also, from that response:
It is our Purpose and Mission to empower Customers who don’t have deep pockets and provide them with the best possible equipment at fair prices. We do understand that we are a fierce competitor and at times controversial as we’re relentlessly push the envelope.

EdGrip
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Post 24 Nov 2020

Koshdukai wrote:
24 Nov 2020
So... what are these forums for? :D
Exactly! After all, we successfully sorted out US politics!

EdGrip
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Post 24 Nov 2020

Where "followed an established concept" means "replicated, down to the position and function of every knob and button".

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guitfnky
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Post 24 Nov 2020

EdGrip wrote:
24 Nov 2020
Where "followed an established concept" means "replicated, down to the position and function of every knob and button".
I assume you haven’t read the article. they rightly point out many examples of this exact thing. Behringer isn’t some shady company doing stuff that other companies don’t do on the regular—that’s just a fact.

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guitfnky
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Post 24 Nov 2020

it really comes down to people who want to feel righteous indignation being rightfully indignant—with a whole lot of selective attention on display.

EdGrip
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Post 24 Nov 2020

I think the reason this particular one has got so large a reaction is that it's such a blatant clone, of (I suspect) the biggest selling product of a comparatively small - but well-regarded - company.

Put it like this: I've watched Behringer clone all sorts of pieces of gear - some more historical than others - but this is the first time I saw one and said "Oh, come on...".

Maybe it's deliberate - like this is the hill they've picked to have this battle on: "We're not just cloning synths and pedals from the 80s."

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bxbrkrz
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Post 24 Nov 2020

Music Tribe, formerly Music Group, is a holding company based in the City of Makati, Metro Manila, Philippines. It is chaired by Uli Behringer, founder of Behringer. Music Group rebranded to Music Tribe in December 2017.

Interesting. I didn't know about their 'new' business location.
757365206c6f67696320746f207365656b20616e73776572732075736520726561736f6e20746f2066696e6420776973646f6d

EdGrip
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Post 24 Nov 2020

It's notable that their cute chart at the top is "Product by a company you've heard of > clone you've never heard of by a tiny company you've never heard of", and not > "clone by a massive multi-national."

EdGrip
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Post 24 Nov 2020

bxbrkrz wrote:
24 Nov 2020
Music Tribe, formerly Music Group, is a holding company based in the City of Makati, Metro Manila, Philippines. It is chaired by Uli Behringer, founder of Behringer. Music Group rebranded to Music Tribe in December 2017.

Interesting. I didn't know about their 'new' business location.
Behringer are the Amazon of music gear.

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guitfnky
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Post 24 Nov 2020

EdGrip wrote:
24 Nov 2020
I think the reason this particular one has got so large a reaction is that it's such a blatant clone, of (I suspect) the biggest selling product of a comparatively small - but well-regarded - company.

Put it like this: I've watched Behringer clone all sorts of pieces of gear - some more historical than others - but this is the first time I saw one and said "Oh, come on...".

Maybe it's deliberate - like this is the hill they've picked to have this battle on: "We're not just cloning synths and pedals from the 80s."
yeah, I think that’s pretty fair. I wonder if they would have gotten the same kind of backlash if they’d waited until they put out their DAW, so the new functionality would actually be apparent to more people out of the gate.

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guitfnky
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Post 24 Nov 2020

EdGrip wrote:
24 Nov 2020
bxbrkrz wrote:
24 Nov 2020
Music Tribe, formerly Music Group, is a holding company based in the City of Makati, Metro Manila, Philippines. It is chaired by Uli Behringer, founder of Behringer. Music Group rebranded to Music Tribe in December 2017.

Interesting. I didn't know about their 'new' business location.
Behringer are the Amazon of music gear.
:lol: nice one


Amazon will soon be the Amazon of music gear: AmazonBasics Boost Guitar Effect Pedal - True Bypass, Full Metal Shell

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joeyluck
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Post 24 Nov 2020

I'm not arguing for or against any party's feelings in this. But it is interesting to see Arturia more vocal about it than most others have been about their own products...and it's in regards to a very simple controller.

If people didn't put them side by side for me and point this out, it would've looked like any other portable controller on the market to me. There's only but a handful of things you need to copy in order to have copied the entire thing.

Meanwhile Korg and Moog are having entire synths with hundreds of parameters copied, and they seem to be less vocal...or I've missed it. Maybe they have sought legal action, but stayed quiet publicly? Again not saying Arturia is wrong for speaking out, it's just interesting the different approaches and when people decide to take a stand.

Also Behringer has been doing it for years and Arturia seemed to have no problem with it when Behringer is copying their competitors. So seeing the post of "Seriously?" Is like, "Yes.. have you been living under a rock?" Lol. Seeing the shock and awe of one of Behringer's easiest and simplest copies for them after copying much more complex synths, is interesting. Again, not saying anybody is wrong for feeling any kind of way about it.

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bxbrkrz
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Post 24 Nov 2020

EdGrip wrote:
24 Nov 2020
bxbrkrz wrote:
24 Nov 2020
Music Tribe, formerly Music Group, is a holding company based in the City of Makati, Metro Manila, Philippines. It is chaired by Uli Behringer, founder of Behringer. Music Group rebranded to Music Tribe in December 2017.

Interesting. I didn't know about their 'new' business location.
Behringer are the Amazon of music gear.
Amazon also clones some of the products (small) companies are distributing on the platform. They have all the data, pushing their clones up in search results, with a nice Amazon Brand on them. https://www.wsj.com/articles/amazon-sco ... 1587650015
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Koshdukai
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Post 24 Nov 2020

guitfnky wrote:
24 Nov 2020
it really comes down to people who want to feel righteous indignation being rightfully indignant—with a whole lot of selective attention on display.
It's just sad and disappointing. It's as if they couldn't do better. That's (to me) the issue.

They're showing to the world, a brand new product that... already existed. What a waste of opportunity to make something better, from a company with enough resources to do so.

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Koshdukai
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Post 24 Nov 2020

joeyluck wrote:
24 Nov 2020
Meanwhile Korg and Moog are having entire synths with hundreds of parameters copied, and they seem to be less vocal...or I've missed it. Maybe they have sought legal action, but stayed quiet publicly? Again not saying Arturia is wrong for speaking out, it's just interesting the different approaches and when people decide to take a stand.

Also Behringer has been doing it for years and Arturia seemed to have no problem with it when Behringer is copying their competitors. So seeing the post of "Seriously?" Is like, "Yes.. have you been living under a rock?" Lol. Seeing the shock and awe of one of Behringer's easiest and simplest copies for them after copying much more complex synths, is interesting. Again, not saying anybody is wrong for feeling any kind of way about it.
I think the "Seriously?" was more like "Seriously? Is this the best you can do?" :P

At least the Borg/Boog modules have a different take on the physical format and the price difference justifies their
"We're making it more affordable for you all, starving musicians"

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guitfnky
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Post 24 Nov 2020

Koshdukai wrote:
24 Nov 2020
guitfnky wrote:
24 Nov 2020
it really comes down to people who want to feel righteous indignation being rightfully indignant—with a whole lot of selective attention on display.
It's just sad and disappointing. It's as if they couldn't do better. That's (to me) the issue.

They're showing to the world, a brand new product that... already existed. What a waste of opportunity to make something better, from a company with enough resources to do so.
did you read Behringer’s response? they say they did add functionality that just won’t be apparent until they put out their DAW. if that’s the case (yes, IF, since we can’t know for sure until that happens), then they will have taken that opportunity and made something better.

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