PG8X based: WB PG8X

[hurricane]

So because you aren't exactly very forthcoming with the contents of your refill and it seems like we have to pull teeth to get any kind of exact info from you, I went ahead and did some auditing of your latest update.

I see you removed the "All Patches" folder from the latest version you sent, making counting just a teeny tiny bit more inconvenient, however, since I had to wait for my girlfriend to get ready, I had more than enough time and counted them.

So, this is a PG-8X refill, so I was expecting the majority of this refill to be PG-8X related. So this is what I see in the PG-8X area:

JX-8P Presets: 78 patches
JX-8p Tones: 51
JX 10 Patches: 119
JX 10 Tones: 55
PG-8X Combis: 62

TOTAL:365

The remaining folders didn't appear to be PG-8x/JX-8P related:

Way Beyond Combis: 15 patches
Experimental: 54 The CMBs in here appear to be duplicates of patches in the folders above.
OtherCombinators/8Z Pro Examples (PX7): 4
Xtra Sounds 4 Bitley WBF R2: 25
Xtra Sounds 4 Bitley WBF R2X: 3

So now we’re at 466 patches.


Now, here's the interesting part. You added a new folder called “Goodies” , and it’s a collection of patches for several REs and Reason’s legacy instruments. I'm not counting the RE patches, but I believe they number around 100.

The legacy device patches:

Thor patches: 284
Malstrom:86
NNXT:11
Subtractor: 525

Just these alone = 906. Guessing you didn’t create these in the past few days, but rather had them lying around on a hard drive, and you added them to make this "PG-8X" refill appear more substantial? AMIRITE?

You're also emphasizing FILE count all of a sudden. The latest link you sent out, you claim you have included 7,300 files. What exactly does that include? Checking your "Sampled" folder, I am counting about 2000 one shot wav files. Now you're upping that count to 9.380 "files". WHAT DOES THAT INCLUDE EXACTLY?

If my numbers are inaccurate by all means please correct me and I will then confirm your numbers.

With your latest additions, Way Beyond PG-8X doesn't appear to be a PG-8X centered refill because it is composed primarily of a quickly put together collection of random patches and samples that were in my opinion, added in response to you being called out on your false claims about your refill.

Anyone with this refill can confirm what I see, and again, please correct me if am mistaken.

You have developed quite a shady reputation around here, and you need to be more open and honest in order to regain some trust.

[hurricane]

So, I see that you sent out another update today. My count in the response above was on the update you sent right before this one. I'll take a look at the very latest version shortly.

EDIT: No, wait, I didn't get a new update. The one I'm on was sent on 11/14. If there was one after that please let me know.

[bitley]

Well I was under the impression that users would want to start exploring the sounds. There is a collected folder with all patches and it indeed contains 1,840 files. The extra material is related as it circles around JX type of sounds, also including very fine JX8P multisamples (patched for NNXT & Combinator) for added diversity. I still have more sounds to make as I keep developing my refills as long as there is more to explore. Demo music also coming up. The very last version was built and uploaded just five hours ago.

[bitley]

Just uploaded a new version now containing a new simple demo track played live from a Keystation Mini 32. The recording was also kept in the refill, in the demo tracks folder. The patch consists of two Soundtrack variations, arpeggiator controlling a discrete hihat from a ReDrum trigged by low notes on the keyboard. Split point at C3 and a lead sound is placed on the higher notes, solo mode in the PG8X activated. Just as a fun layout which would have taken a very long time to mimic on a JX10. The demo patch is fun to play too, toy with various scales in the scales & chords player. Will post the youtube here as soon my old Mac Pro 1,1 has calculated the video lol.

[bitley]

[hurricane]

There is a collected folder with all patches and it indeed contains 1,840 files.

SO in your very latest update, again, I don't see where you're getting your numbers. I don't see 1,840 patches. Your all-inclusive "Xactly All Patches" folder contains 1665:

1655.png (132.35 KiB) Viewed 4218 times

And this 9638 files number - WHAT DOES THAT INCLUDE?

What are they?

Where are they?

What can I do with them?

The number of individual wav samples is the same - 2000. So if you want to count those, then 2000 wavs + 1655 instrument patches + 62 effects patches = 3717. So these mysterious 5,921 extra "files" - where do I find these????

[bitley]

It does? My mac says 1840. Perhaps she's got something flaky in her RAM!

Over 5,000 files in the sample folders.

Subfolders used almost everywhere to make it easy to locate everything.

Open a NNXT and browse for samples if you want to "see" all the samples.

[bitley]

PDF PATCH LIST (right click / save as or open in the browser)

Here's what it is;

[tdirtyonthebeat]

Thank you for the Patch List, Bitley!

I appreciate you taking the time to put that together for us, and for the recent updates sent!

[bitley]

Thank you! I got the feeling it was needed A paypal complaint is still open though so I wonder what's missing. Documented hit song functionality? I thought the 8P had that from day one... (used by A-ha, PSB, Scritti Politti, Neneh Cherry...)

[hurricane]

I'm surprised there's only ONE PayPal complaint.

Here's the deal - when I purchased this refill I thought it was going to be all about PG-8X and the JX-8p. Granted, yes, you do have a selection of patches with PG-8X actually in the patch, but the majority of this refill consist of patches you added AFTER I called you out, and most of those patches come from your Way Beyond Fairlight refill. A good portion of the Thor, Subtractor, and Malstrom patches in your 'Goodies" folder come from your Fairlight refill. Anyone with both refills can confirm this. You said, and I quote: "The extra material is related as it circles around JX type of sounds" - well I call bullshit on that. I bet the samples you added are also things you already had, and again which you added in response to being called out. As for them being JX type sounds, well, looking at the folder names, I don't see how Fairlight sounds fall anywhere near the JX.

So you went from having 383 patches to 1,840 in a matter of a few days. You claimed that in order for the refill to grow, you needed more orders. You were confronted by people from this forum and suddenly oh look, the refill has soooo many patches now. I can only conclude you have re-packaged some of your sounds.

[bitley]

Makes me sad to read.

I've worked hard to create a truly inspiring environment evolving around PG8X.

I don't know if you are familiar with Roland history but to compete with DX5 they released the head to head product JX10 in 1986, which consisted of two JX8P synths in one beautiful extra luxurios top model. This was Rolands last ever analog synth followed by the D-50 in 1987. It would take until the JDXA and JDXI for them to release (partially) analog synths again.

Anyway - I've built lots of combinators to emulate the JX-10. I think the ones who gets this and starts using it will find it cool indeed.

Additional material has been added in order to be able to create wider and wilder sound combinations as the JX machines despite all their glory were / are very limited tonally. Just like a Juno 60 or Prophet 5.

If you want to get a wider sound you need something else to make things stand out. Fairlights and DX7s etc were the most common things to layer with JX machines as then you could get that sparkly digital top and the warm fat analog bottom.

You can have any theories you want. I will keep having fun and creating new sounds making sure to have enough flavors in my bar so my customers can have fun & be creative mixing patches.

Mathematically I find it impossible to see how you can keep complaining on a currently ultra cheap truly giant refill. I can only assume you've not tested it? Anyone into the JX sound and beyond should find this refill pretty exciting.

I created almost all of my patches on the original JX8P and JX10 synths and transferred this to the digital world. Having been able to renew this work has been truly joyful and I hate to become brought down by someone who can't see the love and true dedication it takes to create something like this. I did my best.

[TritoneAddiction]

Bitley I don't know you and I'm not the target audience for your products. I'm just a random Reason user who has read through the comment section here (and the other thread MrFigg posted). You're obviously very passionate about what you do. But it looks to me like you might lose some of your best costumers unfortunately. It's pretty obvious the complaints has nothing to do with your skill level or the quality of your work. People seem to agree your patches sound great. I would say it's purely around your inability to own up to your mistakes and take criticism, to simply say "Sorry, I messed up" when it's needed to. Those simple words could save you a lot of trouble (and customers).

If you want to change the "negativity" here you have to adress your mistakes. Trying to deflect the questions/issues people bring up is not going to work. You're probably thinking peoples negative comments will damage my or other peoples perceptions of your work. It won't. That shit happens ALL the time. People complain about everything. But your way of handling negative feedback WILL affect my view of your brand.

It would be one thing if people complained about the quality of your patches, those things are totally subjective. But the complaints here seem to be more on a factual level. A certain number of patches were promised when they bought the refill for example and it didn't include what was promised. The product wasn't finished. Even if you correct it later. It was still a mistake/wrong doing initially. We all mess up sometimes. That's ok. Just own up to it and people will most likely go a bit easier on you.

Anyway take what you from this comment. I guess one can choose to look at this as another negative comment, or take it as someone who wants to offer some constructive criticism and help a Reason contributer out.

[bitley]

Hm, factual level?! The 10 page 3 colum patch list posted above is as factual as it gets, and it should make people rush to instabuy a superb refill creation - simple as that.

[MrFigg]

Etc...

[bitley]

That's at least a good melody

[MrFigg]

That's at least a good melody

Hahahaha . That did make me laugh.
Thing is man, if you look back, many of the threads you have started, even dating back as far as the PUF, have descended into where we currently are now. I mean surely everyone can’t be wrong. Maybe you see it differently? As someone once said (or maybe more than once) “Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it”.

[TritoneAddiction]

Etc...

Yes. A never ending story indeed. Well I tried, I really did.

Good luck Bitley

[guitfnky]

Etc...

accurate.

[bitley]

There have been none other mistakes than the general consensus on this forum alone.

The products were made as I talked about them and I tried to make people interested in suggesting what to add and so on.

I had this vision of how people would get the refills and comment on look, feel, sounds, sorting, different choices.

Instead people very often didn't get the refills but decided to complain instead...

The whole series of refills that I've done was done this way; by communicating and keeping the doors fully opened into what was going on. But on the Phead forums the general attitude was SO much warmer and welcoming, truly uplifting and making me creative, coming up with funny little ideas and easter eggs etc in the products and people cheered this and enjoyed it.

Reload your impression of who I am please because I'm one of the original Phead crew members - and I used to be recognised for that, and respected as well. I made factory patches you all used. I thought this meant something. I thought the family feeling from the PUF would last. That people would chime in with Positivity.

Thankfully there's at least one guy doing that here but this entire lynch mob thing has to disappear. I'm surprised no mods here are reacting.

Crazy.

[guitfnky]

There have been none other mistakes than the general consensus on this forum alone.

The products were made as I talked about them and I tried to make people interested in suggesting what to add and so on.

I had this vision of how people would get the refills and comment on look, feel, sounds, sorting, different choices.

Instead people very often didn't get the refills but decided to complain instead...

The whole series of refills that I've done was done this way; by communicating and keeping the doors fully opened into what was going on. But on the Phead forums the general attitude was SO much warmer and welcoming, truly uplifting and making me creative, coming up with funny little ideas and easter eggs etc in the products and people cheered this and enjoyed it.

Reload your impression of who I am please because I'm one of the original Phead crew members - and I used to be recognised for that, and respected as well. I made factory patches you all used. I thought this meant something. I thought the family feeling from the PUF would last. That people would chime in with Positivity.

Thankfully there's at least one guy doing that here but this entire lynch mob thing has to disappear. I'm surprised no mods here are reacting.

Crazy.

you’re right...mods should be reacting. by removing you. this “woe is me” bullshit is tiresome, and you can’t blame people for seeing through it.

yes, some of us haven’t bought your products, but still complain about you. why? because you promise one thing and don’t deliver on it. that’s shitty business, period. I WANTED to buy from you—had actually planned on it, but thankfully I saw how shady you are before I pulled the trigger.

there’s only one person hurting your business, and it is you.

[bitley]

Omg.

Everyone who has any of my refills should be able to witness that they're all Completely Loaded with sounds.

I just posted a completely giant patch list, what's going on here really?

[MrFigg]

Square peg round hole

[TritoneAddiction]

Omg.

Everyone who has any of my refills should be able to witness that they're all Completely Loaded with sounds.

I just posted a completely giant patch list, what's going on here really?

"What's going on?" I don't think you've listened to a single word being said here. Hint: IT'S NOT ABOUT THE SOUNDS!

EDIT: Seriously though, you have to at some level understand why some people are reacting the way they do, right? Or is it really a total mystery to you?

[guitfnky]

“comes with 987,083 patches!”

<receives 530 patches>

the math here isn’t difficult. literally or figuratively.