Any tutorials on non-rhythmic ducking?

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Thousand Ways
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18 Jul 2020

Are there? All I can find on YouTube are tutorial videos about sidechaining in order to create rhythmic, trance-style ducking effects. What I'm looking for is something that shows a simple way of ducking one instrument or audio track around another, eg.: audio track containing voice sample says a phrase, and all or some other tracks momentarily drop in level each time this is said.

I'm looking for the kind of ducking that responds to all audio on a single track, and not the kind that, say, ducks every time the drum machine hits the bass drum.

If anyone has a link to such a tutorial I'd be very grateful.

I've noticed that on YouTube there are dozens of videos that mention "sidechaining" but very few that use the term "ducking". I don't know why this is.

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Electric-Metal
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18 Jul 2020

Wether you're sidechaining to a kick or any other signal, the priciple remains the same. So take any of these videos you`ve mentioned, and apply this technique to any channel you want to duck by the vocals.
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Thousand Ways
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18 Jul 2020

Thanks. I'm using an MClass Compressor to do the ducking. But is there a way to make one track make several others duck? As far as I know, the MClass Compressor can only be attached to one instrument at a time.

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Electric-Metal
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19 Jul 2020

Thousand Ways wrote:
18 Jul 2020
Thanks. I'm using an MClass Compressor to do the ducking. But is there a way to make one track make several others duck? As far as I know, the MClass Compressor can only be attached to one instrument at a time.
Every element you want to duck needs its own instance of the MClass (or any compressor as long as it has a sidechain inputs).

Here's a very basic routing example
SC.gif
SC.gif (232.21 KiB) Viewed 1180 times
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Thousand Ways
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19 Jul 2020

Electric-Metal wrote:
19 Jul 2020
Every element you want to duck needs its own instance of the MClass (or any compressor as long as it has a sidechain inputs).
Thanks a lot – very helpful. I also found this video, which just uses Spider Audio Splitters instead of MClass Compressors. But this method seems a bit more limited, since the Spider device will need to use up the "Key" part of the Dynamics section on each affected channel strip.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIyOuHsMJwI

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selig
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19 Jul 2020

The main differences are going to be subtle, but basically you need settings for attack/release that follow the voice rather than follow the beat, and ratio/depth amounts that just push things down a little rather than all the way off. I used ducking for stuff like this for many years before ever using it in a more "obvious" creative way - it's different, but not THAT different.
Obvious examples are all over broadcast, most often on a commercial when the VO comes in over the music bed. But you can use this for ducking the track when a lead vocal comes in, or bus ducking (ducking BGVs when lead vocal comes in, ducking rhythm guitars when lead guitar comes in, etc.).

Interestingly enough I actually prefer to do the more transparent ducking with compressors (no side-chain), which is more old school. The technique is simple - set the threshold so the background audio does not cross it but the lead DOES. For example, on a vocal bus with lead and background vocals, set the bus compressor so it only compresses when the lead comes in (you may have to turn up the lead or turn down the BGVs slightly to fine tune the effect). Then set the ratio for the desired amount of "ducking" of the BGV vocals. It's a "two for one" effect: you get compression on the vocals, AND you get the BGVs gently pushed back when the lead comes in, all with only one compressor and no extra cabling! :)
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19 Jul 2020

selig wrote:
19 Jul 2020
Interestingly enough I actually prefer to do the more transparent ducking with compressors (no side-chain), which is more old school. The technique is simple - set the threshold so the background audio does not cross it but the lead DOES. For example, on a vocal bus with lead and background vocals, set the bus compressor so it only compresses when the lead comes in (you may have to turn up the lead or turn down the BGVs slightly to fine tune the effect). Then set the ratio for the desired amount of "ducking" of the BGV vocals. It's a "two for one" effect: you get compression on the vocals, AND you get the BGVs gently pushed back when the lead comes in, all with only one compressor and no extra cabling! :)
Love your input Giles.. I'll definitely give this one a try.. very practical !

Thousand Ways
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04 Aug 2020

Further to the above, can anyone see what I'm doing wrong with ducking connections here?

Knock GS is meant to force Tape hiss GS to drop in level each time Knock GS sounds. But Knock GS has an inserted delay line, which is automated and applies for only some sections of the song. I didn't know where to take the sidechain cable out from Knock GS. Normally the sidechain cable would go straight from Insert FX Out on the first instrument, to sidechain in on the MClass Compressor of the second instrument.

You can see how I've tried to make the sidechain connection, but it doesn't work. Or rather it does, but the delay is now bypassed completely and doesn't sound. What am I doing wrong?

More broadly, how do you do such sidechains in cases where the instruments to be connected have insert FX? It feels as though there needs to be some additional in/out which is missing. Any help appreciated.

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selig
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09 Aug 2020

You need to choose to split the signal for the side chain before or after the delay, and return one split to the "FROM DEVICES" jacks while sending the other on to the side chain input as you have already done.
As patched, the Knock GS insert is functioning as a split, which means anything in that path goes ONLY to the side chain. Use a Spider Splitter to split the signal and you'll hear the delay again.
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guitfnky
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09 Aug 2020

Electric-Metal wrote:
19 Jul 2020
Thousand Ways wrote:
18 Jul 2020
Thanks. I'm using an MClass Compressor to do the ducking. But is there a way to make one track make several others duck? As far as I know, the MClass Compressor can only be attached to one instrument at a time.
Every element you want to duck needs its own instance of the MClass (or any compressor as long as it has a sidechain inputs).

Here's a very basic routing example

SC.gif
I'm super late to the party, but another way to do this, which may (or may not) be easier/more practical, depending on the scenario, would be to send each of the tracks you want to duck (here, BASS, PAD, LEAD SYNTH) to a new buss, and add a single MClass to the inserts on the buss--then there's no need to split the signal into three separate outputs going into three separate compressors on three separate tracks.
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Electric-Metal
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09 Aug 2020

guitfnky wrote:
09 Aug 2020
Electric-Metal wrote:
19 Jul 2020


Every element you want to duck needs its own instance of the MClass (or any compressor as long as it has a sidechain inputs).

Here's a very basic routing example

SC.gif
I'm super late to the party, but another way to do this, which may (or may not) be easier/more practical, depending on the scenario, would be to send each of the tracks you want to duck (here, BASS, PAD, LEAD SYNTH) to a new buss, and add a single MClass to the inserts on the buss--then there's no need to split the signal into three separate outputs going into three separate compressors on three separate tracks.
Totally agree, just not my workflow, as I always tend to give every element it's own amount/curve for ducking. But to each his own :)
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Thousand Ways
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09 Jul 2023

Apologies for resuscitating this thread after so long, but is there a simple means of making several instruments force a single instrument to duck? I'd like to find an uncomplicated way of doing this, without creating Combinators and God knows what else. Surely there's some simple way of doing it using Spider splitters?

I'd also like to avoid using the dynamics section on the instruments' channel strips, because I've already dialled in dynamics settings on those strips, and don't want to lose or override those settings. I've watched several videos on YouTube, but they're all either dealing with the other kind of sidechain ducking (ie. making one instrument cause several others to momentarily drop in volume) or I just can't understand them. Any advice appreciated.

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jam-s
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09 Jul 2023

Thousand Ways wrote:
09 Jul 2023
Apologies for resuscitating this thread after so long, but is there a simple means of making several instruments force a single instrument to duck? I'd like to find an uncomplicated way of doing this, without creating Combinators and God knows what else. Surely there's some simple way of doing it using Spider splitters?

I'd also like to avoid using the dynamics section on the instruments' channel strips, because I've already dialled in dynamics settings on those strips, and don't want to lose or override those settings. I've watched several videos on YouTube, but they're all either dealing with the other kind of sidechain ducking (ie. making one instrument cause several others to momentarily drop in volume) or I just can't understand them. Any advice appreciated.
For this scenario I think Selig's send ducker method is the easiest way to go:


Thousand Ways
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09 Jul 2023

jam-s wrote:
09 Jul 2023
For this scenario I think Selig's send ducker method is the easiest way to go:
Lordy, that was rapid. Many thanks – will try this.

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selig
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10 Jul 2023

Thousand Ways wrote:
09 Jul 2023
jam-s wrote:
09 Jul 2023
For this scenario I think Selig's send ducker method is the easiest way to go:
Lordy, that was rapid. Many thanks – will try this.
…let me know if you have any questions, I can't believe I didn't mention this approach earlier in the thread!

You can download the Combinator I used in that video here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9rgpvbs26j3b4 ... b.zip?dl=0
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Thousand Ways
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10 Jul 2023

selig wrote:
10 Jul 2023
You can download the Combinator I used in that video here
Thanks as always. This was the Combinator that I downloaded, and it seems to be working.

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