Has VST-support ruined Reason?

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guitfnky
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16 Jul 2020

I think it’s been great for Reason. I can see why it might have caused a bit of a dip in RE development at first, while everyone either started exploring and getting used to what using VSTs in Reason is like—but I think that temporary lull is starting to pass. there seems to have been a bit more movement on new (non-Player) REs recently, and I think that will continue.
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reddust
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16 Jul 2020

If Reason 10 wouldn't have supported VST I would have never even tried/bought it, so for me it was rather the opposite. I've ended up abandoning Reason but VST support was none of the reasons why I did.

BedsitAudio
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16 Jul 2020

I am a staunch defender of the RE format. I am also not a fan of the floating window aspect of VST plugins.
That said, I use VST plugins where they are most useful - mainly for detailed metering (e.g. Voxengo SPAN).

But, as was pointed out to me by Mattias (I think), I can "disable" VST support myself and run Reason like it never knew VST existed, so, no, Reason isn't "ruined" - just enriched.

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JT2C
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16 Jul 2020

I don't think so. Been using Reason since before Record, but was really considering abandoning for Ableton because of always hearing from my mates about Massive and Serum etc. Probably saved the company IMO.
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TheDragonborg
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16 Jul 2020

VST support hasn't ruined Reason for me... VST (and also audio tracks and external MIDI output) are what brought me back to Reason from Cubase.

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hurricane
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16 Jul 2020

I was so close to quitting Reason - and then VST support was announced. I don' like the factory synths at all, and most REs are shit. So once we could use the best instruments and effects inside Reason, it was a whole new ballgame.
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michael.jaye
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16 Jul 2020

Adding VST was the only "true" feature request I needed fulfilled. Sure there are a bunch of other improvements I'd like to see, but I"m more than satisfied with what I have in version 10.

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ljekio
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17 Jul 2020

VST support was a third Reason revolution (after first as audiotrack in Record and second with RE).

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stratatonic
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17 Jul 2020

BadMusic wrote:
14 Jul 2020
Have VST's ruined Reason as was predicted by the Propellerhead-forum regulars?
Looks like the vast majority on this thread welcome VST support in Reason.
Who were these “Propellerhead-forum regulars” that were predicting the demise of Reason?

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EnochLight
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17 Jul 2020

BadMusic wrote:
14 Jul 2020
Have VST's ruined Reason as was predicted by the Propellerhead-forum regulars?
No.
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avasopht
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17 Jul 2020

stratatonic wrote:
17 Jul 2020
Looks like the vast majority on this thread welcome VST support in Reason.
Who were these “Propellerhead-forum regulars” that were predicting the demise of Reason?
Well, forum regulars are comprised of people whose views differ. I recall a few who were predicting the demise if they implemented VST and those who predicted its demise if they did not.

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DaveyG
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17 Jul 2020

avasopht wrote:
17 Jul 2020
stratatonic wrote:
17 Jul 2020
Looks like the vast majority on this thread welcome VST support in Reason.
Who were these “Propellerhead-forum regulars” that were predicting the demise of Reason?
Well, forum regulars are comprised of people whose views differ. I recall a few who were predicting the demise if they implemented VST and those who predicted its demise if they did not.
The end of the (Reason) world is nigh. We're all doomed. Doomed, I tell you. DOOMED!
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QVprod
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17 Jul 2020

stratatonic wrote:
17 Jul 2020
BadMusic wrote:
14 Jul 2020
Have VST's ruined Reason as was predicted by the Propellerhead-forum regulars?
Looks like the vast majority on this thread welcome VST support in Reason.
Who were these “Propellerhead-forum regulars” that were predicting the demise of Reason?
I think demise is the wrong word. We just had people afraid VST aliens would abduct them with their floating windows. :lol:

Then there were a few of us out of ignorance that claimed we “didn’t need them”... and I think most of us learned the error of our ways and actually wanted it by the time RS added VST support. I remember the user email campaigns to get VST devs to make REs lol.

Gotta say though, it was kind of fun watching people here discover what a VST was once 9.5 came out.

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EnochLight
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17 Jul 2020

QVprod wrote:
17 Jul 2020
Gotta say though, it was kind of fun watching people here discover what a VST was once 9.5 came out.
It's almost good that it took that long, and those users discovered VST when they did. Back in the early-mid 2000's, I can remember VST's being a train wreck often, with GUI/UX that would make your eyes bleed and reliability just plain garbage. The format has truly come a long way in the past 10-12 years, for sure.
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QVprod
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17 Jul 2020

EnochLight wrote:
17 Jul 2020
QVprod wrote:
17 Jul 2020
Gotta say though, it was kind of fun watching people here discover what a VST was once 9.5 came out.
It's almost good that it took that long, and those users discovered VST when they did. Back in the early-mid 2000's, I can remember VST's being a train wreck often, with GUI/UX that would make your eyes bleed and reliability just plain garbage. The format has truly come a long way in the past 10-12 years, for sure.
Yeah, I totally missed that era being young and all. Didn't know what a plugin was until 2009ish. Switched from FL Studio to Reason in 2008 because it had better sounds... I suppose lack of knowledge worked in my favor. :D

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MannequinRaces
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18 Jul 2020

Not at all. I was getting sick and tired of trying to get Reaktor sounds into Reason. VST implementation is still kinda buggy (some old Reaktor ensembles will crash Reason (I’ve already reported this)) but I’m really happy that if I want to use VSTs I have the option. Still a huge fan of REs and view some of them as a Reason exclusive kind of like PlayStation and XBox have their own exclusive titles. I think this is the RE formats ace in the hole.

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selig
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18 Jul 2020

As a dev:
I'll add that it has even improved up my development workflow since I build a fully working prototype in Reaker before committing it to code, and now I can do that IN Reason which is especially helpful with FX since I need a typical audio source to feed through my prototypes to fine tune things. It's great that I can now test prototypes in any song I'm working on in Reason, giving me a real world or "in the field" testing platform that is very helpful.
As a muso:
Plus I already owned Komplete since V1 and FINALLY can use everything in Reason.
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Goriila Texas
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18 Jul 2020

Midiout and Vst support in Reason was heavily opposed by those who don't want Reason to grow and stay a DAW with training wheels. There's a huge divide between Reason users with some pushing for the DAW to evolve with pro or even modern features. Then there are those that don't want Reason to turn into Pro Tools. The old PUF (PH Forum) was historic for clashes between both which almost always ended with someone being banned. I was BigAnt on that forum and was notorious for getting banned by Mathias for arguing with most of the Mods on this forum who most were on the other team against the growth of Reason. That team runs this forum that's why any negativity about Reason is not tolerated.

stratatonic wrote:
17 Jul 2020
BadMusic wrote:
14 Jul 2020
Have VST's ruined Reason as was predicted by the Propellerhead-forum regulars?
Looks like the vast majority on this thread welcome VST support in Reason.
Who were these “Propellerhead-forum regulars” that were predicting the demise of Reason?

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PhutureD
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18 Jul 2020

BadMusic wrote:
14 Jul 2020
There used to be arguments on Propellerhead's user-forum about whether Reason should support VST's. The consensus was (1) Reason will never support VST's, because Reason's CEO had once stated Reason would never support VST's, and (2) if Reason did start supporting VST's, it would be the ruin of Reason.

Have VST's ruined Reason as was predicted by the Propellerhead-forum regulars?

Saved me from having to launch Reaper each time I wanted to use VST's , even with rewire available ,I never really used it. It was a smart move integrating vst's . Performance could have been much better as well as more colour choices when coding tracks, among other gripes but im generally happy. Its pretty stable , except for that odd occassion when a vst freezes , which is rare.

chaosroyale
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18 Jul 2020

Even if Reason Intro is free - why would anyone want to to download a big heavy "wrapper" just to use RE's which are, as another user put succinctly - mostly shit. They can already use VSTs without a wrapper, and VST versions of plugins are almost always superior in performance, CPU and price.

*Don't get me wrong- Selig's stuff and a few others are great, but in 20 years of professional sound engineering I have never met a single client or colleague who has even heard of "coloring EQ" or "Expanse".

EDIT - obviously RE's have only been out for 8 years, and I don't mean specifically only those 2 RE's.
The main point is that nobody has ever said to me "Hey, how about that awesome new RE!" when talking shop about music production.
avasopht wrote:
16 Jul 2020
chaosroyale wrote:
16 Jul 2020
Likewise the idea that anyone will buy the RRP to use REs in another DAW. Nobody is going to spend 470 bucks just so they can use Selig Leveler. And nobody needs a bunch of CV utilities if they were not using Reason in the first place. Nobody is going to buy Reason to use the rack version of the Legend when they can just buy..The Legend VST.
You can use Reason Intro for that. I wouldn't be surprised if RS released a free RRP mainly for accessing REs. That stripped-down Reason Lite (with all those devices removed) looks like a good candidate for it. Maybe the PluginBoutique freebie was a trial run ;)

RRP works really well as an effect ... even with just RRP Lite and a few REs.
Last edited by chaosroyale on 20 Jul 2020, edited 1 time in total.

avasopht
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18 Jul 2020

chaosroyale wrote:
18 Jul 2020
*Don't get me wrong- Selig's stuff and a few others are great, but in 20 years of professional sound engineering I have never met a single client or colleague who has even heard of "coloring EQ" or "Expanse".
Sure, but it's not been out for 20 years, nor has it been available as an option as an effect in the VST hosts they've been using.

It's far too early to rule out the utility of RRP for mainstream DAW users. We just don't know how they will develop and market future versions of RRP.

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Nerveclinic
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18 Jul 2020

It's made Reason far, far better. I use VST synths more than any RE's at this point.

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jam-s
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20 Jul 2020

The main danger people saw with VST support was that Reason would turn into an unstable mess of bugs-galore. This did not happen, so by now most people are happy with this feature.

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fullforce
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20 Jul 2020

Reason has been ruined (well, or a bit more like, impeded) by bad decisions in management and product development.
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EnochLight
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20 Jul 2020

fullforce wrote:
20 Jul 2020
Reason has been ruined (well, or a bit more like, impeded) by bad decisions in management and product development.
Curious - how so?
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