Has VST-support ruined Reason?
I think it’s been great for Reason. I can see why it might have caused a bit of a dip in RE development at first, while everyone either started exploring and getting used to what using VSTs in Reason is like—but I think that temporary lull is starting to pass. there seems to have been a bit more movement on new (non-Player) REs recently, and I think that will continue.
If Reason 10 wouldn't have supported VST I would have never even tried/bought it, so for me it was rather the opposite. I've ended up abandoning Reason but VST support was none of the reasons why I did.
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I am a staunch defender of the RE format. I am also not a fan of the floating window aspect of VST plugins.
That said, I use VST plugins where they are most useful - mainly for detailed metering (e.g. Voxengo SPAN).
But, as was pointed out to me by Mattias (I think), I can "disable" VST support myself and run Reason like it never knew VST existed, so, no, Reason isn't "ruined" - just enriched.
That said, I use VST plugins where they are most useful - mainly for detailed metering (e.g. Voxengo SPAN).
But, as was pointed out to me by Mattias (I think), I can "disable" VST support myself and run Reason like it never knew VST existed, so, no, Reason isn't "ruined" - just enriched.
- TheDragonborg
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VST support hasn't ruined Reason for me... VST (and also audio tracks and external MIDI output) are what brought me back to Reason from Cubase.
My latest album: https://rrrecs.bandcamp.com/album/assimilation-chamber
I was so close to quitting Reason - and then VST support was announced. I don' like the factory synths at all, and most REs are shit. So once we could use the best instruments and effects inside Reason, it was a whole new ballgame.
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Adding VST was the only "true" feature request I needed fulfilled. Sure there are a bunch of other improvements I'd like to see, but I"m more than satisfied with what I have in version 10.
VST support was a third Reason revolution (after first as audiotrack in Record and second with RE).
- stratatonic
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- EnochLight
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No.
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite | Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD
Well, forum regulars are comprised of people whose views differ. I recall a few who were predicting the demise if they implemented VST and those who predicted its demise if they did not.stratatonic wrote: ↑17 Jul 2020Looks like the vast majority on this thread welcome VST support in Reason.
Who were these “Propellerhead-forum regulars” that were predicting the demise of Reason?
The end of the (Reason) world is nigh. We're all doomed. Doomed, I tell you. DOOMED!avasopht wrote: ↑17 Jul 2020Well, forum regulars are comprised of people whose views differ. I recall a few who were predicting the demise if they implemented VST and those who predicted its demise if they did not.stratatonic wrote: ↑17 Jul 2020Looks like the vast majority on this thread welcome VST support in Reason.
Who were these “Propellerhead-forum regulars” that were predicting the demise of Reason?
(and we have been since version 3 or 4).
I think demise is the wrong word. We just had people afraid VST aliens would abduct them with their floating windows.stratatonic wrote: ↑17 Jul 2020Looks like the vast majority on this thread welcome VST support in Reason.
Who were these “Propellerhead-forum regulars” that were predicting the demise of Reason?
Then there were a few of us out of ignorance that claimed we “didn’t need them”... and I think most of us learned the error of our ways and actually wanted it by the time RS added VST support. I remember the user email campaigns to get VST devs to make REs lol.
Gotta say though, it was kind of fun watching people here discover what a VST was once 9.5 came out.
- EnochLight
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It's almost good that it took that long, and those users discovered VST when they did. Back in the early-mid 2000's, I can remember VST's being a train wreck often, with GUI/UX that would make your eyes bleed and reliability just plain garbage. The format has truly come a long way in the past 10-12 years, for sure.
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite | Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD
Yeah, I totally missed that era being young and all. Didn't know what a plugin was until 2009ish. Switched from FL Studio to Reason in 2008 because it had better sounds... I suppose lack of knowledge worked in my favor.EnochLight wrote: ↑17 Jul 2020It's almost good that it took that long, and those users discovered VST when they did. Back in the early-mid 2000's, I can remember VST's being a train wreck often, with GUI/UX that would make your eyes bleed and reliability just plain garbage. The format has truly come a long way in the past 10-12 years, for sure.
- MannequinRaces
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Not at all. I was getting sick and tired of trying to get Reaktor sounds into Reason. VST implementation is still kinda buggy (some old Reaktor ensembles will crash Reason (I’ve already reported this)) but I’m really happy that if I want to use VSTs I have the option. Still a huge fan of REs and view some of them as a Reason exclusive kind of like PlayStation and XBox have their own exclusive titles. I think this is the RE formats ace in the hole.
As a dev:
I'll add that it has even improved up my development workflow since I build a fully working prototype in Reaker before committing it to code, and now I can do that IN Reason which is especially helpful with FX since I need a typical audio source to feed through my prototypes to fine tune things. It's great that I can now test prototypes in any song I'm working on in Reason, giving me a real world or "in the field" testing platform that is very helpful.
As a muso:
Plus I already owned Komplete since V1 and FINALLY can use everything in Reason.
I'll add that it has even improved up my development workflow since I build a fully working prototype in Reaker before committing it to code, and now I can do that IN Reason which is especially helpful with FX since I need a typical audio source to feed through my prototypes to fine tune things. It's great that I can now test prototypes in any song I'm working on in Reason, giving me a real world or "in the field" testing platform that is very helpful.
As a muso:
Plus I already owned Komplete since V1 and FINALLY can use everything in Reason.
Selig Audio, LLC
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Midiout and Vst support in Reason was heavily opposed by those who don't want Reason to grow and stay a DAW with training wheels. There's a huge divide between Reason users with some pushing for the DAW to evolve with pro or even modern features. Then there are those that don't want Reason to turn into Pro Tools. The old PUF (PH Forum) was historic for clashes between both which almost always ended with someone being banned. I was BigAnt on that forum and was notorious for getting banned by Mathias for arguing with most of the Mods on this forum who most were on the other team against the growth of Reason. That team runs this forum that's why any negativity about Reason is not tolerated.
stratatonic wrote: ↑17 Jul 2020Looks like the vast majority on this thread welcome VST support in Reason.
Who were these “Propellerhead-forum regulars” that were predicting the demise of Reason?
BadMusic wrote: ↑14 Jul 2020There used to be arguments on Propellerhead's user-forum about whether Reason should support VST's. The consensus was (1) Reason will never support VST's, because Reason's CEO had once stated Reason would never support VST's, and (2) if Reason did start supporting VST's, it would be the ruin of Reason.
Have VST's ruined Reason as was predicted by the Propellerhead-forum regulars?
Saved me from having to launch Reaper each time I wanted to use VST's , even with rewire available ,I never really used it. It was a smart move integrating vst's . Performance could have been much better as well as more colour choices when coding tracks, among other gripes but im generally happy. Its pretty stable , except for that odd occassion when a vst freezes , which is rare.
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Even if Reason Intro is free - why would anyone want to to download a big heavy "wrapper" just to use RE's which are, as another user put succinctly - mostly shit. They can already use VSTs without a wrapper, and VST versions of plugins are almost always superior in performance, CPU and price.
*Don't get me wrong- Selig's stuff and a few others are great, but in 20 years of professional sound engineering I have never met a single client or colleague who has even heard of "coloring EQ" or "Expanse".
EDIT - obviously RE's have only been out for 8 years, and I don't mean specifically only those 2 RE's.
The main point is that nobody has ever said to me "Hey, how about that awesome new RE!" when talking shop about music production.
*Don't get me wrong- Selig's stuff and a few others are great, but in 20 years of professional sound engineering I have never met a single client or colleague who has even heard of "coloring EQ" or "Expanse".
EDIT - obviously RE's have only been out for 8 years, and I don't mean specifically only those 2 RE's.
The main point is that nobody has ever said to me "Hey, how about that awesome new RE!" when talking shop about music production.
avasopht wrote: ↑16 Jul 2020You can use Reason Intro for that. I wouldn't be surprised if RS released a free RRP mainly for accessing REs. That stripped-down Reason Lite (with all those devices removed) looks like a good candidate for it. Maybe the PluginBoutique freebie was a trial runchaosroyale wrote: ↑16 Jul 2020Likewise the idea that anyone will buy the RRP to use REs in another DAW. Nobody is going to spend 470 bucks just so they can use Selig Leveler. And nobody needs a bunch of CV utilities if they were not using Reason in the first place. Nobody is going to buy Reason to use the rack version of the Legend when they can just buy..The Legend VST.
RRP works really well as an effect ... even with just RRP Lite and a few REs.
Last edited by chaosroyale on 20 Jul 2020, edited 1 time in total.
Sure, but it's not been out for 20 years, nor has it been available as an option as an effect in the VST hosts they've been using.chaosroyale wrote: ↑18 Jul 2020*Don't get me wrong- Selig's stuff and a few others are great, but in 20 years of professional sound engineering I have never met a single client or colleague who has even heard of "coloring EQ" or "Expanse".
It's far too early to rule out the utility of RRP for mainstream DAW users. We just don't know how they will develop and market future versions of RRP.
- Nerveclinic
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It's made Reason far, far better. I use VST synths more than any RE's at this point.
The main danger people saw with VST support was that Reason would turn into an unstable mess of bugs-galore. This did not happen, so by now most people are happy with this feature.
- EnochLight
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Curious - how so?
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite | Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD
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