Mono to Poly with Stock devices ?
Hello fellas,
i would like to understand how to chain some mono synths to get a polysynth.
Especially how to programm the combinator to get the first key ( of a chord) adressing the first synth, the second key adressing the second synth while reseting on the way when no key is pressed and so on... I hope you can follow me.
I know there is the "Distributor" RE which is made exactly for that matter.
But trying to go without that i got to the point of asking myself "is it even possible with stock devices" ?
And yeah, i get the point that it is a bit dumb to ask when i know there is the Distributor , you could say its for the education-matter !
i would like to understand how to chain some mono synths to get a polysynth.
Especially how to programm the combinator to get the first key ( of a chord) adressing the first synth, the second key adressing the second synth while reseting on the way when no key is pressed and so on... I hope you can follow me.
I know there is the "Distributor" RE which is made exactly for that matter.
But trying to go without that i got to the point of asking myself "is it even possible with stock devices" ?
And yeah, i get the point that it is a bit dumb to ask when i know there is the Distributor , you could say its for the education-matter !
This is a SmartAss. Really nothing more than that !
Distributor is the only way.
CVPT player from Lectric Panda.
A-Series 2 Modular Synth
Some of control devices from Hamu.
A-Series 2 Modular Synth
Some of control devices from Hamu.
Not stock but all free, Poohbear has built a monster poly synth from mono modules here
do you mean for "splitting" the incoming midi ? could you please go a bit more in detail ?
in poohbears Video Series is another video which explains the distributor and the possibility of HAMUs ModPanel8 to use the roundrobin method :
(maybe i go and try to build a "simpler" monopoly-chain with the ModPanel8)
btw: i downloaded the patches from poohbear..... the first gives me 4 DSP bars, the second goes Full Red DSP ( both without even making a sound )
This is a SmartAss. Really nothing more than that !
I dont know if you are interested, but i got a "MonoTonePoly" Patch in a Combi with the help of HAMUs ModPanel8. (Yeah, not stock , but its the only non-stock device in the combi)
8 slightly changed Monotones as 8 Voice Polyphonic Synth. And after adding a scales and chords i was suprised myself how "good" it sounds.
it sounds better when the midi notes slightly overlap. Or better it sounds less static if i may say so.
As far as i´ve gone Distributor still has some advantages over the Modpanel8 for that matter, BUT like the name suggests - the ModPanel8 does it more "by the way" and can many other things the distributor cant.
If someone other has interest let me know
This is a SmartAss. Really nothing more than that !
Yea, sure i am interested.NDKay wrote: ↑21 Jun 2020I dont know if you are interested, but i got a "MonoTonePoly" Patch in a Combi with the help of HAMUs ModPanel8. (Yeah, not stock , but its the only non-stock device in the combi)
8 slightly changed Monotones as 8 Voice Polyphonic Synth. And after adding a scales and chords i was suprised myself how "good" it sounds.
it sounds better when the midi notes slightly overlap. Or better it sounds less static if i may say so.
As far as i´ve gone Distributor still has some advantages over the Modpanel8 for that matter, BUT like the name suggests - the ModPanel8 does it more "by the way" and can many other things the distributor cant.
If someone other has interest let me know
Reason12, Win10
yes please
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Sort of splits I guess, more like diverts midi to the active device (or devices) as selected by the Thor CV curves. See attached combinator for a simple 4 voice example.
I haven't had a chance to check the videos as yet.
- Attachments
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- Round Robin Stock 1.cmb.zip
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thanks, i definitely will check that out !
___________
And here´s the MonoTonePoly Combinator. ( be patient with Volume - gets Hot damn fast)
Its called 2 because of "publishing" matters i mapped the Combi controls to something
Like already said, you will need HAMUs "ModPanel8 CV Control" RE, which is free. Lets take a look if Sterioevos tip will help me to stay reason native.
Have fun and enjoy
edit: re upload with my signature added -ND (for the first time....ahhh)
- Attachments
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- MonoTonePoly.zip
- (7.32 KiB) Downloaded 260 times
Last edited by NDKay on 22 Jun 2020, edited 2 times in total.
This is a SmartAss. Really nothing more than that !
Now i did and your patch does something i could not achieve with ModPanel8. Its better suited for arps where every new note is played by the "next" monosynth. I really was wrapping around my head how to achieve that because (that kind of) arps are not really working with ModPanel8, so thank you !
btw. going for more than 4 devices would need a lot more of thors and also other cv devices, right ?
BUT........ it is not polyphonic (or i misunderstood something). I think that is what you mean with "sort of ".
With the ID8s (which are poly) it sounds polyhonic because of the ID8s.
I mean, i play 3 keys (a chord) and in your patch all 3 keys get played by 1 instance of one of the ID8s.
In my Patch with the ModPanel8 every key gets to play 1 Voice of the chord, so 3 Synths are playing together the chord.
Nonetheless, thanks again for the patch. educational !
edit : added - (that kind of) - not to spread misinformation, arps of course work with ModPanel8.
Last edited by NDKay on 24 Jun 2020, edited 1 time in total.
This is a SmartAss. Really nothing more than that !
If REALLY want to get down and dirty, you CAN do this with stock devices - just not how you probably want to…
The answer is with a combinator, splitting 36-48 mono synths by note, depending on how wide a range you want (and how much work you want to do!).
But in cases where the parts you want to play only cover an octave or two (not uncommon for a poly synth), this definitely works. It's just a huge PITA to make patch changes beyond what you can setup from the Combinator front panel, even if you save/load patches.
BUT - it works 100% "as advertised". Tips for saving CPU - just assign notes according to the scale you're using, and delete any synths that aren't playing notes once you've recorded your part.
Advantages: it's about as "POLY" as you can get, dedicating an entire synth per voice. PLUS, you can easily create alternate tunings since each note = one synth. And you'll never run out of polyphony or have a "stolen" note issue!
The answer is with a combinator, splitting 36-48 mono synths by note, depending on how wide a range you want (and how much work you want to do!).
But in cases where the parts you want to play only cover an octave or two (not uncommon for a poly synth), this definitely works. It's just a huge PITA to make patch changes beyond what you can setup from the Combinator front panel, even if you save/load patches.
BUT - it works 100% "as advertised". Tips for saving CPU - just assign notes according to the scale you're using, and delete any synths that aren't playing notes once you've recorded your part.
Advantages: it's about as "POLY" as you can get, dedicating an entire synth per voice. PLUS, you can easily create alternate tunings since each note = one synth. And you'll never run out of polyphony or have a "stolen" note issue!
Selig Audio, LLC
- Carly(Poohbear)
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I did not realise they were that heavy, as per my videos in some of them I have several running at the same time...
Anyway just had a play with your patch, nice one...
FTI: I think the Blamsoft Polymodular system is well worth the money...
https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/bund ... -system-i/
PoohBear.
"Sort of" meaning the combinator splits the midi across the contained instruments - stepping through the Curve CV's selects the active instrument.NDKay wrote: ↑22 Jun 2020
btw. going for more than 4 devices would need a lot more of thors and also other cv devices, right ?
BUT........ it is not polyphonic (or i misunderstood something). I think that is what you mean with "sort of ".
With the ID8s (which are poly) it sounds polyhonic because of the ID8s.
I mean, i play 3 keys (a chord) and in your patch all 3 keys get played by 1 instance of one of the ID8s.
Each Thor controls 2 voices - one for each curve CV. You could make use of the Rotary, MW and PB inputs to make a 10 voice self contained combinator (5xThors). In practice I like to have each instrument in its own combinator and would split (Thor to spiders) the midi to each combinator instrument, along with the respective curve CV to "receive notes". This way you still have the bulk of combinator controls available for instruments.
The file is setup similar to Distributors single voice, in that only one voice is played/gate.
Curve CV 1 - active only on step 1 - Voice 1
Curve CV 2 - active only on step 2 - Voice 2
Curve CV 3 - active only on step 3 - Voice 3
Curve CV 4 - active only on step 4 - Voice 4
You could for example setup a double mode by:
Curve CV 1 - active on step 1 & 2 - Voice 1 & 4
Curve CV 2 - active on step 2 & 3 - Voice 2 & 1
Curve CV 3 - active on step 3 & 4 - Voice 3 & 2
Curve CV 4 - active on step 4 & 1 - Voice 4 & 3
For Quad mode you would need more than 4 voices. The length of Thor's step sequencers relates to the number of voices. So using this approach you could achieve a 16 voice setup with 8 x Thors.
The direction sort of works like the order. The Reset ON button is there to ensure the Thor's are synchronised with each other (and would need to be adjusted if you changed the number of steps/voices).
Thor will only process and send 1 concurrent gate signal at a time (this is where Blamsoft's Poly CV comes in) so you need some timing difference for notes in a chord. Additionally there are some quirks in how Thor responds (I think this is what Selig is referring to with the mention of "stolen notes").
- Carly(Poohbear)
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- Joined: 25 Jan 2015
- Location: UK
Nice usage of the Receive notes.Sterioevo wrote: ↑22 Jun 2020
The file is setup similar to Distributors single voice, in that only one voice is played/gate.
Curve CV 1 - active only on step 1 - Voice 1
Curve CV 2 - active only on step 2 - Voice 2
Curve CV 3 - active only on step 3 - Voice 3
Curve CV 4 - active only on step 4 - Voice 4
You could for example setup a double mode by:
Curve CV 1 - active on step 1 & 2 - Voice 1 & 4
Curve CV 2 - active on step 2 & 3 - Voice 2 & 1
Curve CV 3 - active on step 3 & 4 - Voice 3 & 2
Curve CV 4 - active on step 4 & 1 - Voice 4 & 3
Note: You could get away with less Thors and use the Note along with the curves, so each Thor can control 3 devices..
Cheers, yes missed that one. Full octave range provides the same CV output as the curves.Carly(Poohbear) wrote: ↑23 Jun 2020
Nice usage of the Receive notes.
Note: You could get away with less Thors and use the Note along with the curves, so each Thor can control 3 devices..
Thank You! THAT would be the definitive answer to my question!selig wrote: ↑22 Jun 2020If REALLY want to get down and dirty, you CAN do this with stock devices - just not how you probably want to…
The answer is with a combinator, splitting 36-48 mono synths by note, depending on how wide a range you want (and how much work you want to do!).
But in cases where the parts you want to play only cover an octave or two (not uncommon for a poly synth), this definitely works. It's just a huge PITA to make patch changes beyond what you can setup from the Combinator front panel, even if you save/load patches.
BUT - it works 100% "as advertised". Tips for saving CPU - just assign notes according to the scale you're using, and delete any synths that aren't playing notes once you've recorded your part.
Advantages: it's about as "POLY" as you can get, dedicating an entire synth per voice. PLUS, you can easily create alternate tunings since each note = one synth. And you'll never run out of polyphony or have a "stolen" note issue!
Although it seems that it would be very (very very) much work to do, i´ve not decided against trying it.
But i also dont have made the decision to start yet !
Like you said , it would be a huge PITA
I would like to add a thing on the "stolen key issue" :
Sometimes i like when a key is missing from a chord. Sometimes i get angry about it !
For example, when i was playing around with my MonoTonePoly patch and put down an easy chord progression in a loop, the "stolen key" adds a small chord variation to it which sounds great imo.
But if i want that exact Chord to play (right now) it can get very frustrating!
For me it comes all down to "Intention":
Its a bit like the "pitch-drift of old hw-synths" which if you dont want the OSC to drift it "grinds your (g)ears" , but it also can be very musical in the right context..... of course, it depends on taste.
This is a SmartAss. Really nothing more than that !
Sterioevo wrote: ↑22 Jun 2020"Sort of" meaning the combinator splits the midi across the contained instruments - stepping through the Curve CV's selects the active instrument.NDKay wrote: ↑22 Jun 2020
btw. going for more than 4 devices would need a lot more of thors and also other cv devices, right ?
BUT........ it is not polyphonic (or i misunderstood something). I think that is what you mean with "sort of ".
With the ID8s (which are poly) it sounds polyhonic because of the ID8s.
I mean, i play 3 keys (a chord) and in your patch all 3 keys get played by 1 instance of one of the ID8s.
Each Thor controls 2 voices - one for each curve CV. You could make use of the Rotary, MW and PB inputs to make a 10 voice self contained combinator (5xThors). In practice I like to have each instrument in its own combinator and would split (Thor to spiders) the midi to each combinator instrument, along with the respective curve CV to "receive notes". This way you still have the bulk of combinator controls available for instruments.
The file is setup similar to Distributors single voice, in that only one voice is played/gate.
Curve CV 1 - active only on step 1 - Voice 1
Curve CV 2 - active only on step 2 - Voice 2
Curve CV 3 - active only on step 3 - Voice 3
Curve CV 4 - active only on step 4 - Voice 4
You could for example setup a double mode by:
Curve CV 1 - active on step 1 & 2 - Voice 1 & 4
Curve CV 2 - active on step 2 & 3 - Voice 2 & 1
Curve CV 3 - active on step 3 & 4 - Voice 3 & 2
Curve CV 4 - active on step 4 & 1 - Voice 4 & 3
For Quad mode you would need more than 4 voices. The length of Thor's step sequencers relates to the number of voices. So using this approach you could achieve a 16 voice setup with 8 x Thors.
The direction sort of works like the order. The Reset ON button is there to ensure the Thor's are synchronised with each other (and would need to be adjusted if you changed the number of steps/voices).
Thor will only process and send 1 concurrent gate signal at a time (this is where Blamsoft's Poly CV comes in) so you need some timing difference for notes in a chord. Additionally there are some quirks in how Thor responds (I think this is what Selig is referring to with the mention of "stolen notes").
Thank you for writing that all down.Carly(Poohbear) wrote: ↑23 Jun 2020
Nice usage of the Receive notes.
Note: You could get away with less Thors and use the Note along with the curves, so each Thor can control 3 devices..
So just to be clear, with this method i wont get "real" polyphony !?
I will get a "perceived" polyphony , right ?
So it wont be a "good" method for pads, but a great one for the kind of arps i mentioned above (next note - next synth). or ?
This is a SmartAss. Really nothing more than that !
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